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OTU Only: T5SS Semi-Official Thread

Blue Ghost said:
I'm just curious here, is this thread in part generated because of the old "implausible worlds" thread a few years back, where some UPPs had TL0 civs on vacuum worlds, or water worlds with no atmosphere kind of thing?
Click to expand...

Indirectly. The T5SS is basically an attempt to produce T5 compliant data for canonical Charted Space sectors circa 1105. This thread, as I understand it, is intended to vet the data for game mechanics, canonicity, and other considerations like plausibility.
 
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Several new sectors in review for T5SS, posted to travellermap.com over the weekend.
 
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The Beyond: Comsentient Alliance

On the Traveller Map of Charted Space, there is a heart-shaped polity that straddles the border between the Vanguard Reaches and The Beyond. The Paranoia Press material for these sectors also mentions a "Comsentient Alliance" that exists in both of these sectors. Whether or not that heart-shaped polity is supposed to be that alliance, or merely a member state of a more loose grouping comprising the alliance was never quite clear.

Nevertheless, the Spinward section of what would be that polity is noted in the Vanguard Reaches as comprising both the Eslyat Magistracy and the Kajaani Triumvirate, but the majority of the polity to Trailing (in The Beyond) is left undefined and the worlds there are noted as "unaligned".

Suggestions:
1) Trace out the rough boundaries of that heart-shaped region in The Beyond and note the worlds enclosed by it as member states of the Comsentient Alliance. (i.e. the Alliance is a loose alliance of multi-world states (including the Eslyat and Kajaani) and otherwise non-aligned worlds similar to the Julian Protectorate). [i.e. give the additional worlds the "CAin" allegiance code].

2) Possibility: In a nod to the now de-canonized polities that generally went with the Sunbane stellar positions, perhaps another "member-state" of the Alliance could be defined for the Trailing half of the polity called the "Corellian League" * [Allegiance code "CACL" ?].
* - (Or "Federation of Garrone" [Allegiance code "CAFG"] - or perhaps both polities could exist within this space)
​

EDIT: Unlike the original Paranoia Press booklet for the Vanguard Reaches, the original Paranoia Press booklet for The Beyond did not list an allegiance code for Comsentient Alliance membership, leaving the reader to guess which worlds were members.

Note also that Rabanitas /The Beyond-0122 is supposedly the location of the Great Hall of the Grand Council of the Comsentient Alliance, and yet the world is listed as non-aligned.
 
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Marc and Don have tweaked the allegiances in Subsector P of Delphi. Previously it contained no Imperial worlds (per AOTI) but this left an odd gap in the Imperium that maps didn't show. This has been retconned, new data is up at travellermap - most worlds in the subsector are now Imperial.
 
Is there any particular reason why Pysadi (SPIN 3008) has become an amber zone? I'm not sure I've seen it given that designation before. In fact, the last big data drop added lots of new amber zones.

Cheers,

Baron Ovka
 
ovka said:
Is there any particular reason why Pysadi (SPIN 3008) has become an amber zone? I'm not sure I've seen it given that designation before. In fact, the last big data drop added lots of new amber zones.
Click to expand...

Ugh, I didn't know that happened -- and it's a lot worse than just Pysadi. The whole subsector picked up a bunch of amber zones and lost a couple of red zones. (Hans would have lost his mind if he has seen this.)

T5 has a rule that "If Gov+LL is 20 or greater, impose Amber Zone (Da). If Gov+LL is 22 or greater, impose Red Zone" (p 412). Pysadi, with a Gov of 13 and Law of 8 would qualify.

However, while this rule is perfectly fine as a guidance for establishing amber and red zones, I really think travel advisories should be solely at the referee's discretion. I don't think Gov+LL should automatically dictate travel zones and I DEFINITELY do not think think we should be overwriting canon based on this calculus.

As with Importance and capitals, I think Gov+LL is just too coarse a mechanic to dictate all travel zones. I would want exceptions on both sides of the equation: high Gov+LL that are green zoned, and low Gov+LL that are amber and red zoned. Heck, I would expect the TAS to consider anarchy worlds to be the most dangerous.

The Mongoose Spinward Marches book, for example, explicitly states that "Four worlds in the subsector are Amber Zoned: Zila, Rugbird, Towers and Reacher, and there are Red Zones in place at Corfu, Zykoca and Lewis" (70). With the latest data drop, the passage would have to be revised to read "Ten worlds in the subsector are Amber Zoned: Dhian, Corfu, Zila, Zykoca, Aramanx, Pysadi, Rugbird, Towers, Junidy, and Recher, and a Red Zone is in place at Lewis."

I don't think any of these changes are clear improvements, and given the long publishing history of the Marches, I would strongly recommend rolling back all these changes across the sector. I haven't dared look at the Solomani Rim, but I'm sure it's just as bad. In fact, I would recommend reversing this change for all sectors with in-print canonical 1105 data: basically, anything with a Mongoose book attached.

And I would recommend changing the text in the T5 core rules to specify that Gov+LL only indicates worlds that are candidates for travel zones.
 
That is probably not intentional. The last drop from DonM redid zones in some of the sectors under review (there were too many in the Paranoia sectors, for example), and added Da and Pz codes elsewhere; the logic probably tickled more established areas as a byproduct. (I reported errors but not non-error alterations)

With Don's passing, the review process will require a reboot. I assume Marc will reach out to folks to pick up the work when he has cycles. In the mean time, keep the feedback coming here. If I'm looped in I'll direct any new coordinators here to review it.

On that note, let me call out:

Far Frontiers subsectors I and J need regenerated PBG codes. All we have for them are placeholders: 000, 100, 001, 101)
 
inexorabletash said:
On that note, let me call out:

Far Frontiers subsectors I and J need regenerated PBG codes. All we have for them are placeholders: 000, 100, 001, 101)
Click to expand...

Those were FASA and/or Dale Kemper. The Ares article lists I (Antideluvia) as having a total of 62.48 billion people, with the highest at Draco (13 billion). J (Alsas) is listed with a total of 15.3 billion, with 9.1 of that at Ahfellahlah.

In Antideluvia only two systems don't have gas giants, Belekz and Psagin. In Alsas there are fewer gas giants, with Mackay, Odugama, Fremantle, Katano, McKne's World, Darien, Lachute, and Chate Levult going without.

No indicators for belts in the UWP list.

I'll crunch on the populations and see if anything obvious emerges.
 
Antideluvia has to display what amounts to a population plateau to meet that population number, with all three of the Pop A worlds having a multiple of 1 (1.3, 1.1, and 1.0, specifically), and all of the Pop 9 worlds having a multiple of 9. The Pop 7 and 8 worlds also needed to be tuned to reach that number. Throwing vaguely random numbers at the rest of the pops gave me this:

0123 Acropolis A887556-9 Ag Ni Ga Pr { 1 } (845+1) [4648] - KV - 801 9 SaCo G6 V
0124 Belekz A553413-A Ni Po { 1 } (634-2) [1527] - - - 300 5 SaCo F8 V
0125 Drawmij E569955-7 Hi Pr { -1 } (B88-3) [7835] - - - 901 9 SaCo G9 V
0128 Salinaikin A000347-E As Lo Va Cx { 1 } (621+1) [345E] - K - 601 9 SaCo M7 III
0221 # Krobob A567620-A Ag Ni Ri Da { 3 } (957-1) [1915] - K A 201 8 ZhIN G4 V
0225 Natlus C859457-7 Ni { -2 } (631-2) [4257] - - - 601 7 SaCo F2 V
0226 Stamfor D542885-6 He Po Ph Pi { -2 } (A75-4) [6634] - - - 601 11 SaCo K7 V
0228 Arbelletia C435435-9 Ni { -1 } (732-3) [2337] - - - 301 8 SaCo G4 V
0229 Yith C423558-C Ni Po Da RsE { 0 } (844+1) [555C] - V A 601 6 SaCo K6 V M8 V
0322 Carcosa X400000-0 Ba Va Fo { -3 } (200-5) [0000] - - R 001 5 NaHu F1 III M3 V D
0324 Pleroo BA86698-6 Ag Ni Ri { 1 } (855+1) [6756] - M - 401 10 SaCo M1 V
0326 Bytar A435212-E Lo { 1 } (511-3) [131A] - - - 601 9 SaCo K8 V
0327 Mitra B975740-A Ag Pi { 3 } (A6C-1) [2A15] - K - 801 9 SaCo M3 V
0329 Al-Jebel A430454-C De Ni Po Da Px { 1 } (734-1) [253A] - K A 301 7 SaCo G7 V
0425 Manchu B000100-D As Lo Va { 1 } (411-3) [1218] - K - 301 6 SaCo K8 V M6 V D
0426 Kretakios C998423-6 Ni Pa { -2 } (631-5) [1223] - V - 701 11 SaCo M8 III
0428 Maried C656650-8 Ag Ni Ga { -1 } (953-5) [1513] - - - 201 9 SaCo G0 V
0430 Atlantis E768955-7 Hi Pr Pz { -1 } (B88-3) [7835] - - A 901 8 NaHu F0 V
0523 Sere E6315A8-8 Ni Po { -3 } (841-3) [5258] - - - 101 9 SaCo G1 V
0524 Servaas AA979B9-B Hi In Pz { 4 } (C8F+5) [AD6C] - K A 901 7 SaCo M3 III M2 V
0526 Dunsel E7628D9-3 Ri Ph Pz { -1 } (A75+1) [9764] - - A 601 14 SaCo F8 V
0528 Summer A886610-C Ag Ni Ga Ri { 3 } (957-1) [1917] - KV - 701 5 NaHu M0 V
0530 Roentgen E8C7673-9 Fl Ni { -2 } (952-5) [3426] - - - 301 10 NaHu A8 V
0623 Dreamland C431631-9 Na Ni Po { -1 } (953-5) [2515] - - - 501 8 SaCo M2 V
0625 Tanner A763AD9-A Hi Pz { 3 } (D9D+4) [BD6B] - K A 101 9 NaHu A7 V
0630 Hali B8A6759-B Fl { 2 } (A6C+3) [896C] - - - 601 7 NaHu G7 V
0722 Drako B865AC9-A Hi Ga Pz { 3 } (D9D+4) [BD6B] - K A 101 8 NaHu M2 V
0727 Nehagen A677A99-B Hi In { 4 } (D9F+5) [BE6C] - K - 101 8 NaHu G7 V
0730 Groneitz C696738-5 Ag Pi { 0 } (967+1) [7755] - - - 701 12 NaHu F6 V
0827 Psagin A101722-C Ic Na Va Pi { 2 } (96C-2) [3918] - V - 500 9 NaHu F2 IV M5 V
 
ovka said:
Is there any particular reason why Pysadi (SPIN 3008) has become an amber zone? I'm not sure I've seen it given that designation before. In fact, the last big data drop added lots of new amber zones.

Cheers,

Baron Ovka
Click to expand...

See TTA. Big spoiler.
Spoiler:
Psaydi, in addition to being a TL4 religious dictatorship, has a hazardous intoxicant and damaging taint. It also has religious prohibitions on use of tech, and upon hunting.
Spoiler:
It also has psionic beasties which are considered holy by the dominant religion
 
Garnfellow said:
Ugh, I didn't know that happened -- and it's a lot worse than just Pysadi. The whole subsector picked up a bunch of amber zones and lost a couple of red zones. (Hans would have lost his mind if he has seen this.)

T5 has a rule that "If Gov+LL is 20 or greater, impose Amber Zone (Da). If Gov+LL is 22 or greater, impose Red Zone" (p 412). Pysadi, with a Gov of 13 and Law of 8 would qualify.
Click to expand...

I just went back and reread that portion. It seems to me that the intent for amber and zones is that they are applied at the discretion of the GM, and *IF* they have been applied, the rules for Pz and Da determine if they get those codes. Red zones always get Fo. The RAW conflict with each other.

Cheers,

Baron Ovka
 
Odd that the TAS only just noticed...

could it be that during the early survey the religious fanatics were a minority and have taken over since?
 
Alsas (Far Frontiers J) wasn't quite as proscriptive, but the Pop 7-9 worlds still had only a limited number of ways to assign multipliers to get to the stated total.

0923 Oskol X300205-7 Lo Va Fo { -3 } (411-5) [1135] - - R 401 9 NaHu M1 II D
0929 Mackay C5A3616-9 Fl Ni { -1 } (853-2) [5548] - - - 600 9 NaHu K5 IV M2 V
1021 Falkirk E100000-0 Ba Va { -3 } (200-5) [0000] - - - 001 5 NaHu A8 IV D K5 V M7 V
1024 Amristar D593654-7 Ni { -3 } (851-5) [4335] - - - 401 8 NaHu G8 V
1026 Tinahely B76A786-B Ri Wa { 3 } (A6D+2) [6A4A] - - - 801 12 FeAl K3 V
1027 Odugama C651564-9 Ni Po O:1026 { -1 } (743-3) [3437] - - - 600 9 FeAl F7 V
1029 Freemantle X380000-0 Ba De An { -3 } (200-5) [0000] - - - 000 8 NaHu G4 V
1122 Sevilla E540459-8 De He Ni Po { -3 } (731-2) [5169] - - - 301 5 NaHu F4 V
1123 Katano D420200-A De He Lo Po { -1 } (411-5) [1115] - - - 500 10 NaHu F2 IV D
1125 Lac Remi C9648D8-6 Ri Pa Ph Pz { 0 } (A77+1) [8856] - - A 501 6 FeAl M2 V
1126 McKne's World C652545-9 Ni Po { -1 } (743-3) [3437] - - - 200 5 FeAl G4 V
1127 Bulawayo D886563-7 Ag Ni Ga Pr O:1227 { -2 } (742-5) [2324] - - - 701 6 FeAl G8 V
1129 Katherina B430300-C De Lo Po RsD { 1 } (621-3) [1417] - - - 401 10 NaHu M3 III
1227 Afellahlah A6659C9-C Hi Ga Cx Pr Pz { 3 } (C8E+4) [AC6D] - KV A 901 9 FeAl F0 V M1 V
1230 Encrucijada X000000-0 As Ba Va { -3 } (200-5) [0000] - - - 001 7 NaHu A6 V K2 V M1 V
1321 Darien X100000-0 Ba Va { -3 } (200-5) [0000] - - - 000 5 NaHu A8 II D K6 V M1 V
1324 Kaosiung X6A0510-8 He Ni Fo { -3 } (841-5) [1213] - - R 801 13 NaHu K4 V
1326 Elyptiya A664885-B Ri Pa Ph { 3 } (B7D+1) [6B39] - - - 601 9 FeAl F7 V
1329 Lachute C767764-7 Ag Ga Ri O:1227 { 1 } (969-1) [5835] - - - 200 6 FeAl M1 V
1422 Mafelong X490000-0 Ba De He { -3 } (200-5) [0000] - - - 001 11 NaHu M3 III M1 V
1427 Schwennin B572616-A He Ni { 1 } (955+1) [5749] - - - 301 7 FeAl G6 V
1428 Krugerschorp C887569-9 Ag Ni Ga Pr O:1227 { 0 } (844+1) [656A] - - - 701 9 FeAl M3 V
1527 Antalya C763645-8 Ni Ri { -1 } (953-3) [4536] - - - 401 8 FeAl K6 V M0 V
1529 Chate Leavult C661994-9 Hi Pr { 1 } (B8B-1) [7A37] - - - 500 4 FeAl K4 V
1623 Sint Amsbern XB76000-0 Ba { -3 } (200-5) [0000] - - - 001 10 NaHu F2 IV D
1625 Azut Leriz X766000-0 Ba Ga { -3 } (200-5) [0000] - - - 001 7 NaHu G0 V D
 
inexorabletash said:
Don or whomever did generate World counts for the data, which would put a cap on the B/G numbers. W = 1(MW) + B + G + Other, so B+G<W-1
Click to expand...

Saw those. Pop multipliers were first, but I can certainly throw numbers at the rest. IIRC the current definition for the Belt number does not include mainworld belts, but I know that has changed a couple times, too.

What's up with 0221? The odd name field caught my eye, but when I looked it up that world is entirely missing from the Ares version of the (half) sector. It doesn't appear to be a misplaced world from my half of the sector, either.
 
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