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OTU Only: T5SS Semi-Official Thread

C
I've added a temporary "Capitals/Candidates" experiment for this. (You may have to reload the map page to get it to show up). I followed your scheme - yellow is capitals, blue is high Ix, green is both.

PSA: I had to roll back part of the server change supporting this, so while the feature appears in the menu it is not functional at the moment. Sorry about that. I'll try to get it sorted out in the next day or two.

UPDATE: And that appears to be resolved. Thank you for your patience.
 
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Mostly, we just need to capture the worlds in question and make sure Marc is aware of the T5 conflicts. (He gets to be the referee is this case, not the voluntary labor/posters in this forum with our personal opinions.)

FYI, I checked in with Marc. Unless there's a good reason, this is not something he's interested in revising.

I still think research by a willing volunteer to identify big discrepancies would be interesting, however.
 
How did the generating worlds change for Aslan worlds?

In making travellermap sectors for other eras, I use 1105 as a basis. In Ealiyasiyw I see that governments are not listed with the special Aslan CT Governments (also used in MgT), nor do the tech levels match up with the generation rules in CT (or MgT). Using those rulesets the lowest expected TL for inhabited Aslan worlds should be TL 4 modified by Atmosphere MAX(4, Atmosphere Min TL).

Since Aslan worldgen is not T5.09 rule, I was looking to see what rules/standards/conversions are in play for Aslan.
One general conversion I see is that most CT Gov H (Split Control) were changed to Balkanization.
 
I've finally managed to locate an advert in Challenge 39 (1989) that announces a 'lost' version of Spica Sector. The advert is for Wrekt Enterprises and lists that supplement as being available along with two adventures, the implication being that the supplement may have reached publication.
 
Hans, Part of my message was a question to everyone. I believe, i did allude to alternative, none of which are in canon, explanations of the RU problems on a sector scale. That being mentioned, the macro viewpoint needs to be explained one step at a time.

Everyone,
Has anyone compared RU in a one sector versus another? Is approximately, 30-50% of the Imperium in a negative RU status?

I realize that I am three years late to this topic, and it might have been answered later on, but here are my totals for RUs per sector:

Code:
Solo 621274
Core 558395
Ilel 508306
Olde 489545
Mass 481471
Prov 416106
Vlan 382950
Alph 374995
Lish 333161
Anta 332628
Reav 327957
Magy 300313
Dagu 294877
Farf 290396
Tugl 288082
Ustr 274022
Vang 269859
Zaru 266793
Daib 258298
Spin 243464
Stai 241050
Ziaf 236284
Gvur 235129
Forn 226973
Gush 218739
Dias 215075
Troj 205716
Akti 201047
Glim 199517
Hlak 191124
Gate 190505
Thet 186362
Ley 179502
Mesh 176105
Iwah 175106
Dark 173162
Uist 166476
Eali 163590
Mend 149995
Empt 147088
Beyo 135264
Dene 134974
Verg 132058
Cruc 128545
Corr 122791
Amdu 103043
Spic 102947
Rift 100865
Reft 97872
Hint 82349
Delp 54239
Alde 42109
Wind 37848
Lang 28733
Tien 25242
Gash 19260
Newo 18929
Star 13882
Afaw 13383
Arzu 7864
Tren 7830
Touc 4916
Caes 0
Cali 0
Fore 0
Cano -17499

In addition, here are the totals per Allegiance:
Code:
ImDs 1306681
ImDc 1291628
ImDi 1175772
NaHu 1044641
ImDv 894665
SoCf 715128
ImDa 698609
AsSc 433400
ImDd 326248
ZhIN 285378
AsVc 196148
AsTv 189401
AsMw 183819
NaVa 182623
VVar 169515
CsIm 164907
ImDg 119856
AsWc 118906
ImLc 115755
VIrM 96407
NaAs 87813
VSEq 79228
VDzF 78876
VTzE 73498
AsT0 68680
AsIf 68503
Prot 67946
VOpp 64282
AsT8 64071
JuHl 61439
ZhCa 57494
SwCf 54016
VRo5 53177
CaPr 51461
CAin 42669
AsT2 42139
AsT1 42081
VBkA 41456
VThE 40075
HoPA 39938
VJoF 39466
GaFd 38050
AsT9 37195
JMen 37092
AsT5 36542
AlCo 35383
JuPr 35247
TrDo 34802
JAsi 34648
AsT6 33899
NaXX 33051
SoWu 32971
ImVd 32228
ImLu 31722
SoBF 31503
V17D 31419
AsT4 30937
ImSy 30910
AsT3 28412
VLPr 28042
AsTz 27088
ZhJp 26850
VLIn 26470
JPSt 25973
MrCo 25791
VVoS 25263
CaAs 23749
IsDo 23748
AnTC 23311
AsOf 22672
VNgC 22145
VPGa 21935
LeSu 20530
VWan 20407
CoBa 20356
VRuk 19923
PlLe 19354
DoAl 19321
GdSt 18884
ImLa 18085
GlFe 17733
Sark 17586
MeCo 16966
IHPr 16611
AsT7 16485
GdMh 16340
JAOz 15831
4Wor 15818
ViCo 15458
SoCT 15199
GlEm 15188
VGoT 14988
LnRp 14772
OlWo 14507
ImAp 13588
CsZh 13294
VAug 13223
StCl 12949
HyLe 12102
TeCl 12052
DaCf 11979
VFFD 11746
JCoK 11701
JHhk 11481
CaTe 11410
TrCo 11270
VNoe 11085
KoEm 10771
CoLp 10672
HaCo 10332
GeOr 10292
ZePr 10200
UnHa 10067
DuCf 9918
3EoG 9301
MiCo 9222
CsHv 9206
MnPr 8854
CsTw 8366
FlLe 8209
KaCo 8077
SoFr 8009
DeNo 7464
GdKa 7038
V40S 6790
FeAl 6137
LaCo 6133
KaWo 5772
VWP2 5622
JuRu 5375
VAkh 5300
MaCl 5114
Bium 4304
SyRe 4232
JUkh 4024
Reac 3844
FeHe 3570
CAKT 3551
MaEm 3344
UnGa 3241
AkUn 3108
SoNS 3097
JLum 3069
MaPr 3048
KoPm 3047
GaRp 3002
DiGr 2932
VOuz 2598
Zuug 2572
CAEM 2513
VRrS 2414
DeHg 2396
AsTA 2334
SoKv 2332
RaRa 2312
VKfu 2217
TroC 2137
VYoe 2042
VARC 2036
VAnP 1915
SaCo 1877
VSDp 1840
ReUn 1450
CyUn 1357
VTrA 943
GrCo 870
CsMP 772
MaUn 662
JaPa 640
OcWs 626
JuNa 80
SoRD 66
SoHn 49
 0
CF 0
XXXX 0
JRar -28
SoRz -89
BlSo -90
AsXX -260
LyCo -590
KPel -732
SeFo -740
ZyCo -754
KhLe -782
TrBr -797
CsCa -820
DiWb -933
FeAm -1253
PiFe -1284
JVug -1391
VCKd -1592
ZhAx -1608
SlLg -1960
VUru -2196
GnCl -2760
KrBu -2910
WiDe -3451
FCSA -3493
VDrN -4681
SwFW -7776
SoQu -8477
HvFd -49441
 
Sorry to jump in on this one 9 months later, but I've been away.

I believe the rule was size 4 worlds could have vThin (3 or less) atmospheres, and size 3 or smaller worlds could only have trace (1 or less).

I had saved this a while back, I won't swear to it, but I think it came from Don. I'm pretty sure it came from these boards:

Code:
size limits for atmospheres
Atm 1, min size 3
Atm 2 or 3, min size 4
Atm 4-9, min size 5

Code:
TL limits for atmospheres
Atm 4, 7 or 9, min TL 5
Atm 3, min TL 6
Atm 0-2, min TL 7
Atm A-B, min TL 8
Atm C, min TL 9

Cheers,

Baron Ovka

EDIT: I found where the TL limits cam from. DonM posted them in msg 30 of this thread.

EDIT: Post 111 of this thread mentions that in almost every case where a world was too small to support an atmosphere, the world size was increased -- the major (very rare) exception being that the world size is somehow important to the adventure with the UWP.
 
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Sorry to jump in on this one 9 months later, but I've been away.

I had saved this a while back, I won't swear to it, but I think it came from Don. I'm pretty sure it came from these boards:

Code:
size limits for atmospheres
Atm 1, min size 3
Atm 2 or 3, min size 4
Atm 4-9, min size 5

These limits are based upon having a world in the life zone of a star, where the temperature range generally permits liquid water. If you are willing to move the world outside of the life zone (e.g. Saturn's moon Titan) you can violate them. But that means atmosphere types A, B, or C.

Code:
TL limits for atmospheres
Atm 4, 7 or 9, min TL 5
Atm 3, min TL 6
Atm 0-2, min TL 7
Atm A-B, min TL 8
Atm C, min TL 9

GT: First In has a Maximum Sustainable Population (MSPR) based upon size, atmosphere, and other factors. Meaning you can sustain a population of X on this world with minimal technology. An inverse of this table.
 
GT: First In has a Maximum Sustainable Population (MSPR) based upon size, atmosphere, and other factors. Meaning you can sustain a population of X on this world with minimal technology. An inverse of this table.

Hard Times and TNE had similar, I think. Part of the Collapse process and brutal when applied.
 
In 1105 the world Ishimshulgi/Sol (Solomani Rim 2021) is a small vacuum world with a UWP of E200478-7. The mainworld had originally harbored a thin atmosphere and oceans, but a GenAssist geneering mishap destroyed the ecosphere, locking the atmosphere into the planet's crust (Travellers Digest 13, pg 31).

The entire T5SS dataset was adjusted using a formula developed by Don so that mainworld size was always large enough to accommodate the atmosphere. Based on this, I recommend increasing Ishimshulgi to either size 4 (minimum for atmosphere code of 2-3) or even better 5 (minimum for atmosphere of 4-9). Either would also support an atmo code of 0.
 
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Recommend reverting the stellar data for Halo/Albadawi (Solomani Rim 0726) from the current F0 II back to the F2 V that was listed in Solomani: Alien Module Six (1986), GURPS Traveller: Rim of Fire (2000), and The Traveller Chronicle 10 (1996). The star is just much too bright given its proximity to Terra.

Not sure when this was changed or why, but as far as I can tell there's no burning canonical reason.
 
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Several of the stars in the current T5SS dataset for Magyar sector could be seen from Terra, but do not match any real stars. The most egregious example would be Mervyn (Magyar 1624), a binary system with M2 V and K4 II stars that lies some 29 parsecs from Terra. At that distance Mervyn would be brighter than Canopus in the Terran sky.

Conversely, several real stars are strong candidates to be located in Magyar space but do not match current T5SS stellar data.

As is widely acknowledged, real stars do not map readily to 2-D jumpspace, but Whulorigan has provided some pretty helpful guidelines for fudging this process.

The following suggested tweaks to Magyar stellar data would not affect any canonical material but would make the stars line up a little better with reality.
  • Change Bupaj (0804) from A5 V to K5 V
  • Change Xian (1103) from M1 V A0 V to M1 V G0 V
  • Change Kench (2510) from A1 V to F1 V
  • Change Ferstenberg (2704) from M3 V to B9 V (Lambda Aquilae)
  • Change Stansifer (3109) from F7 V M3 V to A0 V (Zeta Aquilae)
  • Change Stanislav (0211) from M0 V to G7 III G6 V (Beta Herculis)
  • Change McManus (0315) from A8 V to F8 V
  • Change Pindur (0615) from K8 V K0 III to K8 V
  • Change Lachlan (0720) from M1 V F3 V to K3 V B9 III F1 V (Delta Cygni)
  • Change Fazio (1320) from K6 V A0 V M4 V to K6 V M0 V M4 V
  • Change Tworek (0229) from A5 V to K5 V
  • Change Issekhee (1128) from M2 V M2 V A4 V to M2 V M2 V K4 V
  • Change Truelock (1321) from K7 V K1 IV to K7 V K1 V
  • Change Vanauken (1522) from M2 V M7 V to G8 III (Eta Herculis)
  • Change Mervyn (1624) from M2 V K4 II to M2 V
  • Change Sturwold (2522) from K6 V to A3 IV F0 V (Delta Herculis)
  • Change Leto (0333) from M3 V to G8 III D (Zeta Cygni)
  • Change Red (0939) from M1 V to K0 III (Iota Cephei)
  • Change Kolin (1534) from K2 V A8 V to K2 V F8 V
  • Change Harpring (1832) from K9 V K1 III to K9 V
  • Change Stancombe (2139) from M1 V to K0 III (Beta Ceti)
 
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Several of the stars in the current T5SS dataset for Magyar sector could be seen from Terra, but do not match any real stars. The most egregious example would be Mervyn (Magyar 1624), a binary system with M2 V and K4 II stars that lies some 29 parsecs from Terra. At that distance Mervyn would be brighter than Canopus in the Terran sky.

Conversely, several real stars are strong candidates to be located in Magyar space but do not match current T5SS stellar data.

As is widely acknowledged, real stars do not map readily to 2-D jumpspace, but Whulorigan has provided some pretty helpful guidelines for fudging this process.

The following suggested tweaks to Magyar stellar data would not affect any canonical material but would make the stars line up a little better with reality.
  • Change Bupaj (0804) from A5 V to K5 V
  • Change Xian (1103) from M1 V A0 V to M1 V G0 V
  • Change Kench (2510) from A1 V to F1 V
  • Change Ferstenberg (2704) from M3 V to B9 V (Lambda Aquilae)
  • Change Stansifer (3109) from F7 V M3 V to A0 V (Zeta Aquilae)
  • Change Stanislav (0211) from M0 V to G7 III G6 V (Beta Herculis)
  • Change McManus (0315) from A8 V to F8 V
  • Change Pindur (0615) from K8 V K0 III to K8 V
  • Change Lachlan (0720) from M1 V F3 V to K3 V B9 III F1 V (Delta Cygni)
  • Change Fazio (1320) from K6 V A0 V M4 V to K6 V M0 V M4 V
  • Change Tworek (0229) from A5 V to K5 V
  • Change Issekhee (1128) from M2 V M2 V A4 V to M2 V M2 V K4 V
  • Change Truelock (1321) from K7 V K1 IV to K7 V K1 V
  • Change Vanauken (1522) from M2 V M7 V to G8 III (Eta Herculis)
  • Change Mervyn (1624) from M2 V K4 II to M2 V
  • Change Sturwold (2522) from K6 V to A3 IV F0 V (Delta Herculis)
  • Change Leto (0333) from M3 V to G8 III D (Zeta Cygni)
  • Change Red (0939) from M1 V to K0 III (Iota Cephei)
  • Change Kolin (1534) from K2 V A8 V to K2 V F8 V
  • Change Harpring (1832) from K9 V K1 III to K9 V
  • Change Stancombe (2139) from M1 V to K0 III (Beta Ceti)

Garnfellow,

If you want to go to the wiki and make the changes, I'll help you.

Several others have already done so.

PM me and I'll show you how to do it. We now have layout pages where template work can be done.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
 
Garnfellow,

If you want to go to the wiki and make the changes, I'll help you.

Several others have already done so.

PM me and I'll show you how to do it. We now have layout pages where template work can be done.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
Don't the proposed changes need to be blessed?
 
You can update the wiki without blessings. But they are not official either. The correct update is to Traveller map. There are directions on the site.
And that's ultimately where I'd like to take these proposals -- official changes to Traveller Map. I've used the wiki and GitHub, but it seems like this thread is the logical first step in the "canonization" process -- float a public proposal here first, hopefully get debate and comment, submit a formal proposal to TravellerMap, get approved, and if accepted update the wiki.
 
Proposal:
In light of the new region markings of reefs, shoals, trenches and nebulae as done in The Great Rift, and are now up in travellermap, can I change the Helix Nebula in Vanguard Reaches Sector (Vanguard Reaches 0437) to reflect its actual nature? I know how to change it, but it is listed as "In Review" status?
 
Proposal:
In light of the new region markings of reefs, shoals, trenches and nebulae as done in The Great Rift, and are now up in travellermap, can I change the Helix Nebula in Vanguard Reaches Sector (Vanguard Reaches 0437) to reflect its actual nature? I know how to change it, but it is listed as "In Review" status?
*checks Traveller Map*

Why didn't I back this Kickstarter? Dang it!
 
*checks Traveller Map*

Why didn't I back this Kickstarter? Dang it!
It was my Christmas present to me for the year. I missed out on Drinax.

And lookie lookie Garnfellow.

Calibration Points! Like the Ishlagu Calibration (Reft 3103) - a neutron star which acts a a navigational beacon
Major Space Stations/Refuel Areas! like Chandler Station (Reft 0618)

You might want to review your TNE map files. IIRC, TNE had specifically designated Calibration Points. I need to do the same for 1248. We had them also... If they don't match up with the Golden Age ones that is fine. I would say these are new ones. The Marches had to blow up the old bridges so to speak to prevent Virus.
 
Proposal:
In light of the new region markings of reefs, shoals, trenches and nebulae as done in The Great Rift, and are now up in travellermap, can I change the Helix Nebula in Vanguard Reaches Sector (Vanguard Reaches 0437) to reflect its actual nature? I know how to change it, but it is listed as "In Review" status?

That's a great point.

As background: T5SS at this point focuses only on things with UWPs and the necessary metadata (allegiance/base/sophont codes). I'm tracking everything else separately.

"Anomalies" - things which occur within an otherwise empty hex - are tracked at https://github.com/inexorabletash/travellermap/blob/master/res/t5ss/anomalies.txt - this data gets merged in with the rest of the T5SS dataset when I update the site. Authors of individual sector files can include rows with {Anomaly} in remarks to get special treatment.

"Regions" are like borders - tracked in the sector metadata. They're just a shaded set of hexes, with an optional label.

Helix Nebula is currently coded as a white dwarf with an asteroid belt. This could be altered or simply augmented with {Anomaly}. The Paranoia Press book does not describe the nebula as having influence beyond the hex.
 
You can update the wiki without blessings. But they are not official either.

T5SS is in the midst of being reconstituted. Right now, short of going directly to FFE, there is no official procedure short of the map. And the Map rarely gets blessed.

The correct update is to Traveller map. There are directions on the site.

There is no correct or not correct. As Josh often says, just do it.

If you coordinate it with me through the wiki, I will bring it to FFE later and vet it through the stages it needs to go through.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
 
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