OTU Only: T5SS Semi-Official Thread

[whulorigan]

Lanth

However, Aramis is NOT the only subsector in the Marches to not have a capital in the T5SS... Jewell and Vilis subsectors lost their subsector capitals as well. Both are administered from Regina.

It's my working theory that Vilis and Jewell once both were Duchies but at various points in the Frontier Wars the titles went extinct, but I'm sure some future author will tell the true tale...

I am rather curious as to why Lanth does have a Subsector Capital. It is a low population backwater, whose "capital" (Lanth) is one of 4 worlds with Importance Ix = +2 (the highest level in the subsector). Lanth would not otherwise even rate a Lesser Duke (C6/Soc=f), which requires minimum Importance Ix = +4 (as all other Subsector Capitals in the Spinward Marches have). In fact, no worlds in the subsector rate either a Lesser Duke or even a Count. Extolay, Treece, and Equus are the most significant worlds (meriting Viscounts), and Lanth itself otherwise merits nothing greater than a Knight.

Seems to me that Lanth would be an ideal candidate for a subsector to be administered from elsewhere.

Perhaps the Lanth Duchy is a legacy from an earlier time?

 

[aramis]

Hi,

but isn't GURPS traveller set at a different time to CT?

Regards

David

15 years later, but without the 2nd Civil War

 

[rancke]

I am rather curious as to why Lanth does have a Subsector Capital. It is a low population backwater, whose "capital" (Lanth) is one of 4 worlds with Importance Ix = +2 (the highest level in the subsector). Lanth would not otherwise even rate a Lesser Duke (C6/Soc=f), which requires minimum Importance Ix = +4 (as all other Subsector Capitals in the Spinward Marches have). In fact, no worlds in the subsector rate either a Lesser Duke or even a Count. Extolay, Treece, and Equus are the most significant worlds (meriting Viscounts), and Lanth itself otherwise merits nothing greater than a Knight.

Seems to me that Lanth would be an ideal candidate for a subsector to be administered from elsewhere.

Perhaps the Lanth Duchy is a legacy from an earlier time?

GT:Nobles does not give it a duke. My take is that Lanth is divided between the duchies of Regina, Rhylanor, and Lunion.

It still has a subsector capital, though.


Hans

 

[aramis]

GT:Nobles does not give it a duke. My take is that Lanth is divided between the duchies of Regina, Rhylanor, and Lunion.

It still has a subsector capital, though.


Hans

It would make more sense to just make the subsector an independent county or Viscounty.

 

[DonM]

Is there any chance of a supplement for a sector on the core route (that's not on the traveller map)?

Regards

David

I had/have permission from the various folks involved, but the Zhodani book was already pretty sizable. Matthew and I have discussed other Zhodani related books, but then I was weak and accepted the Droyne albatross.
:file_21:

 

[DonM]

GT:Nobles does not give it a duke. My take is that Lanth is divided between the duchies of Regina, Rhylanor, and Lunion.

It still has a subsector capital, though.


Hans

There was a reason in T5. I'll go dig through my notes. However, I'm supposed to recheck items, so I'll add another look at the subsector capitals to my list.

 

[DonM]

There was a reason in T5. I'll go dig through my notes. However, I'm supposed to recheck items, so I'll add another look at the subsector capitals to my list.

At the moment, I'm thinking you've caught a mistake, and Lanth might be losing its subsector capital. Still researching.

 

[DonM]

Ok, so Marc says it's the other way...

Ideally, a subsector's most important world is a Importance 4+ world with a class A starport.

However, there's some serious backwater subsectors out there, and they still get capitals. Because otherwise, there's some interesting subsectors that won't have a subsector duke. Seriously, there's a subsector out there that I counted at least 15 negative importance worlds in. Who ever visits that place?

And there's some Importance 5 worlds with B starports (it can happen).

So the answer really is, ok, there is an issue, and we'll see what the next update does to fix it.

And we'll look at Depots next after capitals...

Then I'll spend some time in the nut farm, and when I get out, I'll give an update to travellermap.com :file_21:

 

[fridge]

Then I'll spend some time in the nut farm, and when I get out, I'll give an update to travellermap.com :file_21:

You need to find yourself a hobby, Don! o:

 

[ken at sunrise]

Ok, so Marc says it's the other way...

Ideally, a subsector's most important world is a Importance 4+ world with a class A starport.

However, there's some serious backwater subsectors out there, and they still get capitals. Because otherwise, there's some interesting subsectors that won't have a subsector duke. Seriously, there's a subsector out there that I counted at least 15 negative importance worlds in. Who ever visits that place?

And there's some Importance 5 worlds with B starports (it can happen).

So the answer really is, ok, there is an issue, and we'll see what the next update does to fix it.

And we'll look at Depots next after capitals...

Then I'll spend some time in the nut farm, and when I get out, I'll give an update to travellermap.com :file_21:

It may not fit the norm for a Importance 5 to have a B starport but there's a lot at work in subsectors across the galaxy. And it's a big place. Doesn't that give flavor? What about an Importance 5 world that had a catastrophic event , a ruler that let the place go into disarray, etc. Or is there a formula that we're trying to stick to regardless of location or circumstance?

 

[rancke]

However, there's some serious backwater subsectors out there, and they still get capitals. Because otherwise, there's some interesting subsectors that won't have a subsector duke.

Which is just as it should be. Such subsectors simply don't have the population and thus the production to support a duke in the style to which dukes are entitled. (Like Lemish :devil.

Seriously, there's a subsector out there that I counted at least 15 negative importance worlds in. Who ever visits that place?

Negative importance? As in less important than airless balls of rock?

And we'll look at Depots next after capitals...

Oh, goody!


Hans

 

[whulorigan]

Ideally, a subsector's most important world is a Importance 4+ world with a class A starport. . . .

However, there's some serious backwater subsectors out there, and they still get capitals. Because otherwise, there's some interesting subsectors that won't have a subsector duke. . . .

So the answer really is, ok, there is an issue, and we'll see what the next update does to fix it. . . .

Perhaps the solution would be that subsectors with Ix<4 have a "Subsector Capital" as a regional administrative center, but do not qualify for a Subsector Duke until the Importance is raised to Ix=4? Such subsectors may fall under the jurisdiction of a neighboring Duke, or have a lesser noble (Marquis - Count) appointed as regional administrator/overseer in the interrim?

Just some thoughts. But maybe Marc has a different idea entirely.

 

[rancke]

Perhaps the solution would be that subsectors with Ix<4 have a "Subsector Capital" as a regional administrative center, but do not qualify for a Subsector Duke until the Importance is raised to Ix=4? Such subsectors may fall under the jurisdiction of a neighboring Duke, or have a lesser noble (Marquis - Count) appointed as regional administrator/overseer in the interrim?

That sounds like it would work for me.


Hans

 

[savage]

If a world has multiple fiefdoms of a certain level, at a certain time, that needs to be identified in the world sheet. :CoW:

Essentially, nobility needs more work beyond T5 and GT:Nobles to clarify high level structure.

 

[DonM]

Perhaps the solution would be that subsectors with Ix<4 have a "Subsector Capital" as a regional administrative center, but do not qualify for a Subsector Duke until the Importance is raised to Ix=4? Such subsectors may fall under the jurisdiction of a neighboring Duke, or have a lesser noble (Marquis - Count) appointed as regional administrator/overseer in the interrim?

Just some thoughts. But maybe Marc has a different idea entirely.

That sounds like it would work for me.


Hans

My thoughts as well, but we'll see where Marc takes us. Remember that all of these discussions are the real reason the T5SS data is being made public before publication.

 

[DonM]

If a world has multiple fiefdoms of a certain level, at a certain time, that needs to be identified in the world sheet. :CoW:

Essentially, nobility needs more work beyond T5 and GT:Nobles to clarify high level structure.

Plenty of work for future authors.

 

[rancke]

Essentially, nobility needs more work beyond T5 and GT:Nobles to clarify high level structure.

I seriously doubt that the T5 version of nobility is going to be backward compatible with the CT/MT view in general and GT:Nobles in particular. It looks to me like a whole new ball-game. But that's no reason to pour the bathwater out with the baby, so any little bit that can be salvaged makes one less discrepancy.


Hans

 

[Spartan159]

Perhaps the solution would be that subsectors with Ix<4 have a "Subsector Capital" as a regional administrative center, but do not qualify for a Subsector Duke until the Importance is raised to Ix=4? Such subsectors may fall under the jurisdiction of a neighboring Duke, or have a lesser noble (Marquis - Count) appointed as regional administrator/overseer in the interrim?

Just some thoughts. But maybe Marc has a different idea entirely.

This was my reaction as well, administrative oversight vs nobility control. Just my 0.02 Cr worth. If I recall correctly Mertactor was listed as the technical/temporary capital of district 268 but was administered by the Duke? Dutchess? of Glisten... And I see now that Mertactor is not listed as a capital either... I will see if I can find references for what it's worth if anything.

 

[Spartan159]

Found one place I probably got the idea from, GURPS Behind the Claw, page 73

Imperial District 268 was the 268th sequentially designated district since the foundation of the Imperial identifying policy. District 268 was opened for Imperial development in 941 by decree of the Empress Margaret II. Under this policy, the worlds of a district were not Imperial members, but received Imperial protection. Imperial affairs were administered from Glisten Subsector, but a token capital was maintained at Mertactor with support from squadrons of the Imperial 100th Fleet.
The subsector has a few minor races. including the Shriekers of 567~908 and Otarri of Faldor.

I have no idea how canon GURPS stuff is, even when it's backdated to before the GURPS timeline.

 

[savage]

I seriously doubt that the T5 version of nobility is going to be backward compatible with the CT/MT view in general and GT:Nobles in particular. It looks to me like a whole new ball-game. But that's no reason to pour the bathwater out with the baby, so any little bit that can be salvaged makes one less discrepancy.


Hans

I agree. (2nd time in one day. wow)

It appears the scale of fiefdoms and the job expectation are under adjustment with T5. No reason to assume "orders", Ranks and others expectations are different. Marc has great opportunity here IMO.