OTU Only: T5SS Semi-Official Thread

[inexorabletash]

I don't want to get off topic but what is the difference in Research Stations?

RsA
RsB
RsD
RsE
etc...

Some sectors have them assigned Greek letters. RsA = Research Station Alpha, B = Beta, G = Gamma, etc. this isn't done consistently for all sectors.

 

[savage]

Maybe it has a planetary Naval Base large enough as to serve also as IN Base, and being joint used. I guess the map just shows IN Bases, and such one could not be counted among them.

:CoW: Don't go there.

 

[rancke]

Maybe it has a planetary Naval Base large enough as to serve also as IN Base, and being joint used. I guess the map just shows IN Bases, and such one could not be counted among them.

Yes, that's the explanation that I have been suggesting. It works for a lot of cases.


Hans

 

[savage]

Only primary IN bases are listed in the traveller data and map. It's possible for a system to have a dozen starports, and more than one naval facility. Only the highest level is noted. The remainder is up to the ref.


That is why I said, "don't go there." It'll break a lot of TUs.

 

[rancke]

That is why I said, "don't go there." It'll break a lot of TUs.

No it won't. A TU isn't broken just because it doesn't conform 100% to the OTU (And a good thing too, since the OTU itself doesn't conform 100% to itself :smirk.

If one day an official product describes Khouth as having IN ships stationed that use the local planetary navy's facilities for support, a referee can decide to go along with it or he can decide to ignore it. His choice, but either way his TU should be perfectly fine.


Hans

 

[savage]

No it won't. A TU isn't broken just because it doesn't conform 100% to the OTU (And a good thing too, since the OTU itself doesn't conform 100% to itself :smirk.

If one day an official product describes Khouth as having IN ships stationed that use the local planetary navy's facilities for support, a referee can decide to go along with it or he can decide to ignore it. His choice, but either way his TU should be perfectly fine.


Hans

Typical. Your enforcing the exception, not the rule.

Simply put, if we cannot identify a reason for one of the 4 navy bases not being at a capital, we move it. If this is consisten throughout subsectors we have a problem. But as I mentioned earlier. Corridor is a unique, its worth thinking about and postulating ideas.

 

[rancke]

Typical. Your enforcing the exception, not the rule.

Advocating, not enforcing. And, huh? What exception, what rule?

Simply put, if we cannot identify a reason for one of the 4 navy bases not being at a capital, we move it.

That's what I would suggest too. Part of my basic credo: "If it doesn't work, change it to something that does work and stick to that from there on". However, I'm not sure it doesn't work. I think that the explanation that when the IN doesn't have a base where you'd think it ought to have one, it's because it doesn't need one because it is using a planetary naval base instead is a good one that can work in many cases.

If this is consistent throughout subsectors we have a problem.

What is "this" and what is the problem?

But as I mentioned earlier. Corridor is a unique, its worth thinking about and postulating ideas.

All sectors are unique. But, sure, if you can come up with a reason why the IN doesn't have a base on Khouth that is predicated on conditions unique to Corridor, then that would be fine.


Hans

 

[cturnitsa]

Data glitch in Spinward Marches data

Hello all - in reviewing some of the information for District 268, on the Traveller Map project, I came across a problem.

Mertactor/1537 is listed in the original GDW Spinward Marches (supplement 3) as having a Size of 2. The same in many other publications, including Mongoose Spinward Marches, etc.

But the data that the Traveller Map project is based on has it listed as Size 5.

I contacted Joshua, and he suggested that I share the information here, for discussion and resolution.

Chuck

 

[fridge]

Mertactor/1537 is listed in the original GDW Spinward Marches (supplement 3) as having a Size of 2. The same in many other publications, including Mongoose Spinward Marches, etc.

But the data that the Traveller Map project is based on has it listed as Size 5.

Chuck

See post #1. Sizes were bumped up if the size was too small to support the atmosphere. If in a published adventure etc size was more important than atmosphere in the story effect, then the atmosphere may have been adjusted down - this was very rare

 

[Dagrill]

No it isn't. That's how the population multiplier is defined. A multiplier of 1 indicates any number from 1 up to but not including 2Hans

That's correct. I tend to "assume" a population half way to the next one, so I would read the entry as 1.5 million. Similarly I've taken Mount's population to be 350 million, although when you get to the billions you have to round down
to fit the sub-sector population in. Whoever wrote the subsector descriptions didn't take this into account.

Regards

David

 

[DonM]

See post #1. Sizes were bumped up if the size was too small to support the atmosphere. If in a published adventure etc size was more important than atmosphere in the story effect, then the atmosphere may have been adjusted down - this was very rare

Confirmed. You'll probably find a lot of this. In almost EVERY case, we found that atmosphere outruled size when we found conflicts. Going in the other direction is extremely rare (lowering atmosphere when size was too small).

 

[Drakon]

That's correct. I tend to "assume" a population half way to the next one, so I would read the entry as 1.5 million. Similarly I've taken Mount's population to be 350 million, although when you get to the billions you have to round down
to fit the sub-sector population in. Whoever wrote the subsector descriptions didn't take this into account.

Regards

David

Even if Lemish's population were 1.5 million, that give me a problem. In 1130 Lemish's UWP goes from A79568C-D to D79568C-A. The population figure does not change in spite what the Vargr have done.

Now Lemishi are good and decent, but the task of breeding that many people in less than 15 years is a bit much.

Of course we do have a lot of chocolate.

I would like to request a multiplier somewhat higher than 1, preferably in the range of 3 to 5 inclusive.

 

[DonM]

Hans (or anyone else)

Where is the citation for the number of non-human sophonts and the number of human minor races found in Charted Space?

 

[whulorigan]

Hans (or anyone else)

Where is the citation for the number of non-human sophonts and the number of human minor races found in Charted Space?

CT: Library Data A-M (p.8):

The known interstellar community encompasses thousands of worlds, many of them inhabited, and not all by humaniti. The number of intelligent life-forms which have been contacted is quite high; within the lmperium itself, over one hundred intelligent species have been identified. When regions beyond the Imperial boundaries are included, the total number rises to well over four hundred.

CT: Library Data A-M (p.9):

Humaniti (old spelling: humanity) is a special case. . . . Unlike non-human races, individual human races are classified as major or minor. Three human races (the Solomani of Terra, the Vilani of the First Imperium, and the Zhodani far to spinward) are major races. The nearly forty other races of humaniti are all minor.

 

[tjoneslo]

CT: Library Data A-M (p.9):

I believe that Solomani and Aslan fixed the number of minor human races at 46, and I'll have to check GT:Humaniti to verify which of their sources they choose to cite.

 

[Dagrill]

Even if Lemish's population were 1.5 million, that give me a problem. In 1130 Lemish's UWP goes from A79568C-D to D79568C-A. The population figure does not change in spite what the Vargr have done.

Now Lemishi are good and decent, but the task of breeding that many people in less than 15 years is a bit much.

I would like to request a multiplier somewhat higher than 1, preferably in the range of 3 to 5 inclusive.

To be honest I think even killing 1 million out of 10 million is rather a huge act of genocide even for space wolves. How about they claimed to have eradicated the planetary population when they bombarded from orbit and no-one was around to check for a few years. When the census was made in 1130 it was found the population was already back to it's previous census level.

As to breeding I ship 1,000 embryo's per cold berth in my colony ships, but perhaps your rather draconian laws forbid mixed race or same sex couples and require you to mate at 18 and produce 3 children from 3 different off-world partners by the age of 21??? (the naval base would love that)

Regards

David

 

[rancke]

That's correct. I tend to "assume" a population half way to the next one, so I would read the entry as 1.5 million.

The problem (as I see it) is that Lemish was said to have a population multiplier of 1 before the raid and a population multiplier of 1 after the raid that killed a million.That can be reconciled by assuming that the million killed is a round number and was actually "only" 0.9 million. But I don't think the concept of round numbers can strecth to cover "a million" actually meaning "less than half a million".

OTOH, I can't spot the problem in assuming that "between 1,000,000 and 1,999,999" includes numbers larger than 1,500,000¹.

¹ But less than 2,000,000.​

Hans

 

[whulorigan]

Where is the citation for the number of non-human sophonts and the number of human minor races found in Charted Space?

I believe that Solomani and Aslan fixed the number of minor human races at 46, and I'll have to check GT:Humaniti to verify which of their sources they choose to cite.

From GT: Humaniti, p.6 :

Imperial scientists know of 49 surviving populations descended from Human groups transplanted by the Ancients. This number may soon rise to 50. A group which may be descended from the Loeskalth, a minor Human race long thought extinct, was discovered in the Far Frontiers sector in 1108. The Imperial scientific community is still weighing the evidence in that case.

 

[Drakon]

To be honest I think even killing 1 million out of 10 million is rather a huge act of genocide even for space wolves. How about they claimed to have eradicated the planetary population when they bombarded from orbit and no-one was around to check for a few years. When the census was made in 1130 it was found the population was already back to it's previous census level.

Again, that feels like cheating to me, without word from either Travellermap or Marc or whoever is in charge of the whole 3I OTU setting. The information concerning this first apocalypse comes from, apparently, Vilani &Vargr which is a DGP publication I do not have.

I actually like this idea a lot, and one of the first solutions I came up with to my problem. "Lemish: the haunted planet" But I feel it would be cheating or at least munchkining without clarification from the powers that be.

If they say that the population figures are correct as stand, then I will work something out. If they decide to change it, well, no one will be happier than me, with the exception of the millions of imaginary inhabitants of Lemish.

As to breeding I ship 1,000 embryo's per cold berth in my colony ships, but perhaps your rather draconian laws forbid mixed race or same sex couples and require you to mate at 18 and produce 3 children from 3 different off-world partners by the age of 21??? (the naval base would love that)

Regards

David

Just because we are a police state does not mean we are a miserable place. I actually imagine Lemish to be pretty laissez faire about most things, and the law worry about big matters like murder, theft, rape, government corruption and the like. Leaving such issues as who raises the kids to the parents, whoever they are.

You use "draconian" apparently to mean "unfair" or "harsh". While the latter claim can be argued, the first one I have to take issue with.

Drakon was a 6th century BC Archon of Athens, who is credited with writing down the first law code in that area. Prior to that, the judicial class that existed could rule however they desired when faced with any kind of charge or crime. This led to widespread abuse that a written legal code put an end to.

The Draconian legal code did not survive to modern time and was superseded by another Archon named Solon. One facet that Drakon created that was preserved was a differentiation between Murder and what we now call "Involuntary Homicide". The penalties of the Draconian code were essentially either banishment or death. Apparently they did not have a prison system in the old days. Murder was punishable by death, but involuntary or accidental murder was not.

It is reported that when asked about his simple system of punishment, he said that for the lesser crimes he felt the punishment was appropriate, and for the greater crimes, there was no other form of punishment he could think of.

It was objections to the punishments in Drakon's code that led to his replacement, not any unfairness in the system of laws he crafted.

As for Lemishian law, this brings up another :CoW: How cohesive will a legal structure be if you just wiped out most of the population? Even if legal prohibitions were in place, would a population whose governor got most of them killed listen to that same governor if he tried to interfere with population growth?

 

[rancke]

System populations

So I want to write a little blurb about the Regina Subsector which includes its population. In big round numbers, of course. I've summed up the figures from every UWP with a population level of 8, 9, or 10. I've used 26 billion instead of 30 billion for Rethe and added half a billion for each of the six population 9 figures (to account for the second digit of their populations). The result is 66.0 billion.

My question is this: if I write "the population of Regina subsector is 66.0 billion", am I accounting for the people living away from the mainworlds? Or am I ignoring a relatively small group of people who would "only" amount to another five or six billions? Or am I ignoring a group of people amounting to 100 billion? (The Spinward Marches claims that Regina Subsector has a population of 165.6 billion).

Or to put it differently, how do you establish the non-mainworld population of a system where the mainworld has a population of X?

This is a question with major world-building ramifications. Trade and tax bases are both affected. If the total population of a system averages 250% of its mainworld, Efate would have a population of 20 billion instead of 8 and Rethe 65 billion instead of 26. More than that, actually, since worlds like Menorb and Ruie probably have a lot less than the average number of off-mainworld population (tech levels of 7).


Hans