OTU Only: T5SS Semi-Official Thread

[Dagrill]

Drakon was a 6th century BC Archon of Athens, who is credited with writing down the first law code in that area.

Apparently they did not have a prison system in the old days. Murder was punishable by death, but involuntary or accidental murder was not.

Hi,

thanks for the information I was unaware of the origin of draconic, despite my allegedly classical education.

They did tend to enslave miscreants, sending people to the salt mines was quite common (from memory).

It's a thorny problem, I suspect an error in canon somewhere...

Regards

David

 

[Drakon]

Hi,

thanks for the information I was unaware of the origin of draconic, despite my allegedly classical education.

They did tend to enslave miscreants, sending people to the salt mines was quite common (from memory).

It's a thorny problem, I suspect an error in canon somewhere...

Regards

David

You're most welcome. Back when discussions were held on usenet newsgroups, and having an "internet account" was a new thing, I wanted to use the handle "Dragon". I like dragons, what can I say.

However, that name was taken and so I misspelled it. It was only later that I found out all this cool information, that Drakon is Russian and Greek for dragon. I just thought it looked cool, and apparently I have a bit of Klingon streak according to my daughter.

 

[Dagrill]

You're most welcome. Back when discussions were held on usenet newsgroups, and having an "internet account" was a new thing, I wanted to use the handle "Dragon". I like dragons, what can I say.

However, that name was taken and so I misspelled it. It was only later that I found out all this cool information, that Drakon is Russian and Greek for dragon. I just thought it looked cool, and apparently I have a bit of Klingon streak according to my daughter.

For some reason Drakon sounds better than Dragon.

It could be your police are just scarily efficient & identify and arrest all law breakers (page 174 of the MgT rule book).

Regards

David

 

[Drakon]

For some reason Drakon sounds better than Dragon.

It could be your police are just scarily efficient & identify and arrest all law breakers (page 174 of the MgT rule book).

Regards

David

That makes sense. The lack of privacy (law level C) would facilitate that.

Hmmm.. Travellermap looks a bit different today. Is it a special day or something?

 

[SanDragon]

I must protest this anti-dragon bias!

 

[Drakon]

I must protest this anti-dragon bias!

Oh! No one is expressing anti dragon bias here. The name "Dragon" was unavailable. That is how I ended up with the handle I bear today. My apologies if you thought it was anti dragon. I am a very pro dragon kind of guy.

When the second Hobbit movie came out, my daughter and her husband were supposed to attend a screening with us. Due to communications failure, we ended up watching the same movie at different theaters, separated by about 30 minutes of time. She reports when they did the final big reveal for Smaug, she could hear my voice "across time and space." go "That's not a dragon that is a Wyvern"

Which is exactly what I said about a half hour later at the screening the Baroness and I saw.

 

[savage]

Nobles and Citizens:
This has nothing to do with T5SS.

 

[Dagrill]

I must protest this anti-dragon bias!

Blame D&D, with stats on every possible Dragon type imaginable....

Regards

David

 

[DonM]

On a side note, I've now posted the T5 Sophont Review in the T5 area of the forums.

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=32269

 

[Spartan159]

Aramis Subsector Capitol

Recently I noticed that on Travellermap.com that Aramis (Aramis/Spinward Marches 3110) was not listed as a subsector capitol. I submitted this as errata, to which Don responded:

" Read the CT Traveller Adventure very closely. The Marquis of Aramis is responsible to Rhylanor, and the Towers cluster is administered from Pretoria in Deneb sector, and the worlds spinward are administered from Regina subsector."

"Aramis is NOT a subsector capitol."

I have reread the Traveller Adventure. What I have found is thus:

Page 143, Library Data, Marquis of Aramis: "... The Marquis is titular head of the world government of Aramis; he owes direct fealty to the Count Knowln of Celepina..."

Page 15, Aramis Subsector: "...In 310, the onslaught began. Paya and Dhian were settled from Regina, and still maintain ties closer to Regina than to Aramis. The rest of the subsector was settled from Deneb."

"The settlement map for 400 shows the results of the flood of settlement from Deneb sector. The presence of jump-1 connections from Deneb made settlement from there easier than from Regina. As a result, Aramis' ethnic and cultural ties are with Deneb, not Regina or even Rhylanor."

Page 16: Aramis 0710 A6B0656-B A Non-industrial. Subsector Capitol

Page 18, Worlds of the Aramis Subsector: "Aramis is the subsector capitol of the Aramis subsector..."

Page 31, Aramis: "Situated on the Aramis Trace and giving its name to the subsector is the world of Aramis (0710-A6B0656-B), trade center and subsector capital."

Furthermore both Supplement 3 The Spinward Marches and The Spinward Marches Campaign both show Aramis as a subsector Capitol.

I was unable to find reference to Pretoria.

If this is a T5 retcon then so be it.

 

[whulorigan]

I was unable to find reference to Pretoria.

The reference to Pretoria is in GT: Nobles, p.18:

Duchies of the Spinward Marches

The Spinward Marches are unique in many ways, but its Imperial duchies serve as an example of the way the aristocratic system works on the frontiers. The Spinward Marches sector has fewer than the standard number of subsector dukes. Several of the subsectors are outside Imperial control, and some of those inside the borders are controlled from other subsectors. The administration of the Aramis subsector, for example, is divided among several dukes based in neighboring subsectors.
.
.
.
Duke Leonard Stephanos Kirgashii of Rhylanor:
Leonard, as subsector duke of Rhylanor, also administers the section of the Aramis subsector known as the Aramis Trace, including Aramis itself...

Duke Norris Aella Aledon of Regina: Norris, in his position as subsector duke of Regina, administers parts of the Jewell, Vilis, Lanth, and Aramis subsectors as well. Past Dukes of Regina annexed these territories to their administration, and made Regina one of the most powerful duchies in the Spinward Marches...

Duchess Ramasawamy Opania Shumma of Pretoria:
Duchess Ramasawamy is the subsector duchess of Pretoria in the Deneb sector, but also administers the Towers Cluster, part of the Aramis subsector. Although she is not strictly one of the subsector dukes of the Spinward Marches, Ramasawamy is involved in sector politics as one of Norris’ supporters.

 

[rancke]

(Quoting Don):

" Read the CT Traveller Adventure very closely. The Marquis of Aramis is responsible to Rhylanor, and the Towers cluster is administered from Pretoria in Deneb sector, and the worlds spinward are administered from Regina subsector."

"Aramis is NOT a subsector capitol."

I have always thought that this could be explained by the Imperium having two overlapping organizational schemes. One is organized on a duchy by duchy basis, the other on a subsector by subsector basis. In most cases the two schemes fit seamlessly because most duchies fill exactly one subsector. But in some cases they don't. So Jewell and Vilis are (I surmise) counties answering to the Duke of Regina, but they still have subsector capitals. Lanth appears to be split between Regina, Rhylanor, and Lunion, but it still has a subsector capital.

I think the 214th Fleet is based on Aramis (that's why it has a naval base). I think that a number of Imperial ministries have subsector administrators with offices on Aramis. I think that the Scouts have a subsector director on Aramis. And so on and so forth.

This would explain the canonical statements about Aramis being a subsector capital.


Hans

 

[Vargas]

Or the subsector capitals were designated in CT Supplement 3 and The Traveller Adventure, intentionally or not, wound up retconning that information?

 

[rancke]

Or the subsector capitals were designated in CT Supplement 3 and The Traveller Adventure, intentionally or not, wound up retconning that information?

Since there's a couple of references to Aramis being the subsector capital in TTA itself, there does not seem to be a retcon involved. And it would only if the new information in TTA were incompatible with the old information. I submit that the two can both be true at the same time. Also, the reference to Aramis being a subsector capital in SMC (1985) postdates the TTA (1983).

Not that Don and Marc aren't perfectly entitled to retcon Aramis' status as subsector capital away. I'm just presenting an argument for the lack of necessity for doing so.


Hans

 

[DonM]

Also, in the T5 calculations, Aramis didn't get a capital.

Marc and I had several discussions about this (as I was presenting the opinion that it meant the calculations were wrong). However, Aramis loses its' subsector capital in the T5SS.

However, Aramis is NOT the only subsector in the Marches to not have a capital in the T5SS... Jewell and Vilis subsectors lost their subsector capitals as well. Both are administered from Regina.

It's my working theory that Vilis and Jewell once both were Duchies but at various points in the Frontier Wars the titles went extinct, but I'm sure some future author will tell the true tale...

 

[rancke]

Marc and I had several discussions about this (as I was presenting the opinion that it meant the calculations were wrong). However, Aramis loses its' subsector capital in the T5SS.

However, Aramis is NOT the only subsector in the Marches to not have a capital in the T5SS... Jewell and Vilis subsectors lost their subsector capitals as well. Both are administered from Regina.

I keep forgetting that seemingly Marc's New Traveller Universe will be so different from the Old Traveller Universe and, by extension, My Traveller Universe that I'm not going to be able (or perhaps willing is the correct word) to keep up with the changes to come. My TU will keep its subsector capitals and nobles and 35 years worth of accumulated setting information, and if that means I won't be able to use the new material, so be it. I've too much time and effort invested in My Traveller Universe to go along with too drastic changes. If the old stuff wasn't broken, I'm not going to change it.

I wish you all the best in your future endavors and will be watching further developments with detached interest.


Hans

 

[DonM]

Well, it's fully within a future author's prerogative to add them back in.

You could write a book for Mongoose or T5. Plenty of sectors and sophonts that don't have a definitive work for them.

Guess what I'm saying is, instead of walking away, fight back. Or at least wait and see what the undiscovered country Marc is taking to is before walking away.

At GenCon 1993 (acting in the role of complete idiot), the Traveller discussion about TNE totally degenerated, thanks to myself, and Geo Galinas' wife (whose name I don't remember). After not being swayed by Frank and Loren's attempts to calm the whole group down, we basically accused them of being the greatest mass murderers in history, and then all but two people in that discussion walked out.

Not one of my better moments. I've apologized to both since, and am much more active in Traveller today than I was then.

Interestingly, I got a similar reaction when it was discovered my Mongoose Zhodani book kept the Empress Wave canon. I guess I was supposed to bulldoze that under...

What I'm trying to say is -- don't walk away. Not over three subsector capitals, not over the T5 nobility changes, not over the Empress Wave, not over the horrific death of billions due to Virus.

 

[Dagrill]

The reference to Pretoria is in GT: Nobles, p.18:

Hi,

but isn't GURPS traveller set at a different time to CT?

Regards

David

 

[Dagrill]

Interestingly, I got a similar reaction when it was discovered my Mongoose Zhodani book kept the Empress Wave canon. I guess I was supposed to bulldoze that under....

Is there any chance of a supplement for a sector on the core route (that's not on the traveller map)?

Regards

David

 

[whulorigan]

Hi,

but isn't GURPS traveller set at a different time to CT?

Regards

David

CT is ideally set in year 1105-1115.

GT is set in year 1120+ w/o Strephon's assassination and the subsequent Rebellion/Civil War. So GT is the way Imperial history should have unfolded CoW had the assassination not occurred. So it really depends on whether or not you believe the GT political situation evolved between 1105 and 1120.