tankers and refuelling
- Thread starter flykiller
- Start date
My take, T5, with all the fuelling plumbing detailled in rules
Battle tender (open structure) + battle riders + riding tanker
Tanker is Streamlined and fitted to pick water planetside, skim gaz giant or collect ice. First run is used to fill fuel tanks of the tender, second run to fill the tanks of the tanker that then dock as auxiliary storage (You can have a 3 or 4 or 5 runs routine of course). As the tender jump the tanker's tank are drained alongside the usual fuel tanks of the tender.
Oilers are just battle tenders with fuel pods (rather than battle riders) + a tanker rider
Battle tenders may have J-4 drive but may have to jump only 1 or 2. Using pods as fuel storage allow to configurate the load to carry no more than the required fuel. Note that drop tanks may also be used for the original jump, leaving the fuel pods untoutched for a subsequent jump
have fun
Selandia
Battle tender (open structure) + battle riders + riding tanker
Tanker is Streamlined and fitted to pick water planetside, skim gaz giant or collect ice. First run is used to fill fuel tanks of the tender, second run to fill the tanks of the tanker that then dock as auxiliary storage (You can have a 3 or 4 or 5 runs routine of course). As the tender jump the tanker's tank are drained alongside the usual fuel tanks of the tender.
Oilers are just battle tenders with fuel pods (rather than battle riders) + a tanker rider
Battle tenders may have J-4 drive but may have to jump only 1 or 2. Using pods as fuel storage allow to configurate the load to carry no more than the required fuel. Note that drop tanks may also be used for the original jump, leaving the fuel pods untoutched for a subsequent jump
have fun
Selandia
esampson
SOC-13
No it doesn't. 75 meters per second equates directly to 270 kph. Assuming you stayed at that speed the whole entire time it would take you less than an hour to descend from 200 km, well above the atmosphere, so 'multiple hours' is already right out.
Additionally, because the atmosphere thins out significantly above 20 km you can travel much faster at those altitudes without significant heating. In the example I gave earlier you would be travelling at 140 mps when you reached the altitude of 20km, about twice the speed you stated. However, since the atmosphere is 10% of sea level your effective air resistance is only 45 mps, or about 60% of your 'safe speed'.
If I was an un streamlined ginormous battleship I'd rather be using the lighters I carry and have them do their thing like Azhanti High Lightening class cruisers do (400 dt refueling ships) but as that may take days the tactical situation may dictate that you have enough time to do a cold reentry and direct refuel without enemy showing up to contest the operation.
Ship to ship combat is not recommended for un streamlined battleships deep in atmosphere, might be a bit of a problem with the sensors that have been stowed away and not being able to point the spinal weapon, and of course not being able to dodge. Therefore this would only be done if the ship could complete the refueling and get back into space before the enemy can get within weapon range.
Ship to ship combat is not recommended for un streamlined battleships deep in atmosphere, might be a bit of a problem with the sensors that have been stowed away and not being able to point the spinal weapon, and of course not being able to dodge. Therefore this would only be done if the ship could complete the refueling and get back into space before the enemy can get within weapon range.
which planet? Venus, Earth, Jupiter? I was talking in generalities not the specific times for a planet that is defined as the standard and I meant 75 KPH as the safe speed, and that also varies by ship design and atmosphere.
esampson
SOC-13
I had specified a terrestrial planet in my initial post. You would never touch down on a Venus like planet because it lacks water in solid or liquid form. Likewise you would never touch down on a gas giant because it lacks a solid surface. In the case of a gas giant as soon as you're dealing with any form of atmosphere you're ready to scoop. There's nothing that's going to be on top of the atomic hydrogen that you need to dive down through.
Sure, it would take multiple hours to descend at 75 KPH. It would take days to descend at 2 KPH. That 'safe speed' is less than the speed a car can drive on the freeway. If that was the absolute maximum speed that ship could travel it would have an extremely poor design.
What's more, it would only take all that time because you are fapping around at speeds far below what you need to be at for a given altitude. If the ship has a maximum speed of 75 kph at seal level then it could be travelling at 225 kph when it reaches 20 km above the surface of a terrestrial planet and it could be travelling even faster than that at higher altitudes. I don't have the time to work out 200 km to surface without exceeding an effective air speed of 75 kph at sea level right now but based on my earlier estimate I would guess you would touch down in less than 20 minutes.
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Caveat: HG/TCS only considers GG and Ocean refuelling.
For what its worth the last TCS game I played, half my fleet (by budget) was tankers.
My strategic philosophy for this is based on first not losing ships to fuel starvation, second picking my battles in that I like jumping in in-strength and exiting again immediately if I cannot overwhelm the opponent with minimal losses. I do not do fair fights or last stands unless it is my homeworld, even then I will give serious consideration to consolidating my forces first.
I risk Alpha strikes, but they are only a risk in the first few months when those prone to Alpha strikes are most likely to launch. After that Alpha strikes seem to look less attractive. On the plus side those adopting this strategy tends to have much fewer scouts, couriers or fuel tenders than I do. Yes, I sacrifice combat vessels to have lots of eyes, fast couriers and the option of withdrawing from combat.
Fleets without refuelling options when faced with overwhelming odds, in HG/TCS will typically run to the outer system and hope for reinforcements or a tanker to save them. Tankers are always in short supply and any rescue forces will be temporarily off station. Fleet death by fuel starvation is not uncommon.
Just my 2cr, I appreciate the dynamic may change if fuel options become more plentiful.
For what its worth the last TCS game I played, half my fleet (by budget) was tankers.
My strategic philosophy for this is based on first not losing ships to fuel starvation, second picking my battles in that I like jumping in in-strength and exiting again immediately if I cannot overwhelm the opponent with minimal losses. I do not do fair fights or last stands unless it is my homeworld, even then I will give serious consideration to consolidating my forces first.
I risk Alpha strikes, but they are only a risk in the first few months when those prone to Alpha strikes are most likely to launch. After that Alpha strikes seem to look less attractive. On the plus side those adopting this strategy tends to have much fewer scouts, couriers or fuel tenders than I do. Yes, I sacrifice combat vessels to have lots of eyes, fast couriers and the option of withdrawing from combat.
Fleets without refuelling options when faced with overwhelming odds, in HG/TCS will typically run to the outer system and hope for reinforcements or a tanker to save them. Tankers are always in short supply and any rescue forces will be temporarily off station. Fleet death by fuel starvation is not uncommon.
Just my 2cr, I appreciate the dynamic may change if fuel options become more plentiful.
Fifth frontier war lets any ship refuel from a source after an extra week of time spent refueling. (The per cannon climatic battle was at a system that had no gas giants and no oceans, leaving the class A port facility as the only place to get fuel in the system. The Zhodani were trapped when their covert troops failed to take the port and Norris caught them before they could refuel.)
Tankers are great when you have enough of them, not so great when you can only refuel half your combat ships and the tankers or all the combat ships and none of the tankers. In such a case you fight with all the force and refuel the ones that combat left able to jump and move on, the cripples forming a rear guard that dies while the rest escape. Eventually all you have left is the force your tankers can refuel and nothing else.
Tankers are great when you have enough of them, not so great when you can only refuel half your combat ships and the tankers or all the combat ships and none of the tankers. In such a case you fight with all the force and refuel the ones that combat left able to jump and move on, the cripples forming a rear guard that dies while the rest escape. Eventually all you have left is the force your tankers can refuel and nothing else.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
For those working the T5 side of the street, I would tend to focus on using Maker technology as defining the repair plant that can be mounted on support ships.
Then your problems are 'I brought too much aluminum but not enough iridium' rather then tracking on #4 superdense fasteners vs. muon injector supply, and you can go raid the enemy, negotiate from a nearby neutral, fly in a desperation cargo run subject to enemy intercept, or emergency mine/smelt in place.
Code:
Fleet Transport Ship, Alice-class
The Alice-class is a general-purpose transport, handling
interchangeable modules of 4900 dtons. Modules for cargo, fuel, troop
transport, and rescue/retrieval/hospital are available. All Alices
remain with fleet elements, hence they must have Jump 4.
"Alice" is a terran female name. All Alices carry female names.
Tech 9/10/13/15, 19,000 dtons spheroid, streamlined
(main hull, maneuver drive, power plant, fuel purifier tech 10)
(cargo module tech 9)
(jump drives tech 13)
(bridge, sensors, and weapons tech 15)
MANNING
Command 22 men, 19 staterooms 22
Engineering 45 men, 23 staterooms 62 (by 1/100, should be 50)
Gunnery 11 men, 6 staterooms 21 (1/1, should be 14 minimum)
Service 12 men, 6 staterooms 12
Flight 4 men, 2 for each gig 4
2 staterooms
TOTAL 94 men, 56 staterooms 121 men, 67 staterooms (3 lifeboats, 102 men max)
SENSORS
Model 9 Sensor Suite (tech 15) (12 energy points required)
ENGINEERING
Jump 4 (760 energy points required for jump 4)
Maneuver 2 (380 energy points required for maximum agility 2)
Power Plant (772 energy points generated)
Fuel Purifier
FUEL TANKAGE CAPACITY
7600 dtons (up to 4 parsecs total jump distance)
772 dtons (4 weeks power plant ops)
ENDURANCE
2 months inherent endurance, plus cargo for 8 Months Endurance more
WEAPONS
5 Factor 9 Beam Laser Batteries (150 energy points required)
5 Gunnery Stations
DEFENSES
1 Factor 9 Nuclear Damper Screen (90 energy points required)
1 Factor 9 Sand Caster Battery
1 Gunnery Station
Sand Magazine: 30 reloads
Main Hull: Armor 2 (0 + 2 inherent)
Cargo Module: Armor 1 (0 + 1 inherent)
CREW ACCOMODATIONS
56 Crew Staterooms
6 Damage Control Stations
8 Holobooths
Medical Facility
Brig
CARRIED CRAFT
3 Lifeboats
2 Ship's Gigs
CARGO
4900 dton module
MISCELLANEOUS
0
--------------------------------------
ALICE DTONNAGES
component rating dtonnage
--------------------------------------
----HULL
bridge 380 ( 4 engineers)
sensors 9 (tech 15) 13 ( 2 engineers)
jump 4 950 (10 engineers)
maneuver 2 950 (10 engineers)
power plant 2316 (24 engineers)
fuel purifier 335 ( 3 engineers)
armor 0 (+2 inherent) 0
ship's cargo 4 230 (5174)
----FUEL
jump 7600
power plant 772 (8372) (9 engineers)(62 total)
----WEAPONS
5 factor 9 beam laser batteries 55 (55) (10 gunners)
----DEFENSES
factor 9 nuclear damper screen 20 (8 gunners)
1 factor 9 sand caster battery 21 (41) (3 gunners) (21 total)
----CREW ACCOMODATIONS
56 crew staterooms 224
6 DC stations 24
8 holobooths 16
medical facility 10
brig 5 (279)
----CARRIED CRAFT
3 lifeboats 90
2 ship's gigs 60 (150)
----CARGO
module 4900 (4900)
----MISCELLANEOUS
4 extra staterooms 16
10 low berths 8 (24)
----REMAINING EXCESS DTONNAGE
(confirmed) 5
----CONSTRUCTION DTONNAGE
19,598
----NOTES
19,000 dtons is the largest hull a tech 10 yard can build while 4900
dtons is the largest hull a tech 9 yard can build. These vessels and
their modules are built at the big yards of Porozlo (tech 10) and
Junidy (tech 9), with more advanced components added by other
shipyards.
The Alice's bridge, engineering, and jump listed here cover the Alice
and its module, but the endurance cargo, fuel purification capacity,
lifeboats, gigs, and service crew cover only the Alice itself and do
not include its 4900 dton module. The module will require its own
components, as needed.
26Oct2005Another useful aspect of tankers is that you want to keep your fighting fleet together to maintain it's power. And, depending on your operations and such, an attacking fleet may emerge in an enemy system and proceed directly to it's target to engage the enemy. It may be successful, or it's mission may be to surround the target and englobe it to keep whatever is there bottled up.
Which means you don't you want to pull off any of your combatants from the war line to go and get fuel. So instead of Mohammed going to the mountain, you bring the mountain to Mohammed. Tankers, with a sufficient escort, would shuttle back and forth from the fuel source to fill the tanks of the fleet.
Fleet logistics don't really interest a lot of people, but clearly there are some here that do follow this very important aspect of warfare. He who has the most efficient supply chain tends to win the wars, though not every battle.
Which means you don't you want to pull off any of your combatants from the war line to go and get fuel. So instead of Mohammed going to the mountain, you bring the mountain to Mohammed. Tankers, with a sufficient escort, would shuttle back and forth from the fuel source to fill the tanks of the fleet.
Fleet logistics don't really interest a lot of people, but clearly there are some here that do follow this very important aspect of warfare. He who has the most efficient supply chain tends to win the wars, though not every battle.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Logistics in future may be primarily missile colliers and frozen lunches and teevee dinners, since three dee printing may cover most other forms of maintenance and repairs.
Tankers are an important part, but with current jump fuel ratios, about the equivalent of external fuel tanks.
Tankers are an important part, but with current jump fuel ratios, about the equivalent of external fuel tanks.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
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