Terran Dawn Campaign Guide [Progress, Questions]

[Sturn]

Progress:

Slow moving, but I still work on this guide almost each day. For those who didn't read the other threads, I'm working on a "campaign guide" set in the Solomani Rim pre-Melieu 0 involving the conflicts between the small pocket empires surviving there and beginning to grow during the closing days of the Long Night.

Gazateer
Read over almost everything I could find on the layout of the Solomani Rim. I have a sector map marked with the various pocket empires in the Rim from canon sources. I have notes on each pocket empire including general government notes, tech level, etc, developed on my own from what little canon has supplied. No digital map yet that I can show, working on it.

Working on a system of regressing UWPs from 3rd Imperium sector data after reading through notes I found in MT Hard Times and T5. I'm not going to be shackled by a rule such as "3rd Imp Tech Level - 4 equals Terran Dawn campaign Tech Level", but I wanted my own general guidelines to work with. Regressing the entire sector's UWP will take a ton of time.

History
I have a timeline of important events from canon sources starting when Earth went stellar to the end of the Long Night. All from canon sources, no major conflicts that couldn't be explained with my own notes. After doing this I set my default campaign start date around -400ish Imperial, 4000ish AD.

Stuff
I have a working list of general notes on starships found in the Old Earth Union and the Dingir League (main two protagonists in the campaign). Just notes thus far on size and design purposes. Dingir is TL 11, Old Earth is TL 11 moving into TL 12. I want to keep ships small. Thus far I'm looking at the largest ship found to be OEU's newest 30,000 ton battleship. Thoughts on this? The Sylean Federation, around the same TL in Melieu 0 had a 90,000 ton ship as their largest according to canon. I have thought of going even smaller. Before the Long Night came, sources indicate the largest ship the Terrans had built (centuries before my campaign) was 30,000 tons at a full TL-12 at the end of the Interstellar Wars. The 2nd Imperium of course may have built some even larger before it fell and my new ships are being developed by pocket empires, not the 2nd Imperium.

Will report back here for those interested as I do more work.

 

[Sturn]

Some "introduction text" I wrote to go in my guide that can give a feel and introduction to the campaign guide. Just something fun I did.



We Terrans conquered the stars almost two millennia ago. Manifest Destiny, Ad Astra Aspera, and all of that. Turned out there weren't just ugly aliens amongst those stars, but other Humans. What a surprise that must have been to our ancestors to find more Humaniti, the Vilani, already ruling a vast empire in our own front yard. Well, we came, we saw, we conquered. That huge, decadent Vilani Empire fell before us.

Turns out us Terrans are better warriors then stylus pushers. It took centuries, but that decaying star empire we inherited collapsed anyway.

Just fragments of what we once were are scattered between the stars now. Pockets in the black. The Long Night it's been called. A millennia of darkness, scraping to get back our old glory.

But, scholars say the Night is ending. If that's so, I'm going to rage with the Dawn, take a piece of what's coming for myself. Why not? I'm a Terran. It's my destiny.

-Terran Dawn, 4000 AD. We conquered the stars once, the second time should be easy?

 

[Sturn]

Question:

Where did the idea of dividing space into Sectors and Subsectors begin in the OTU?

I recall Provinces and possibly Domains being mentioned as far back as the 1st Imperium. Were Sectors and Subsectors something the 2nd or 3rd Imperium started? I believe I recall it being mentioned someplace where this system of mapping actually started.

Working on my "sector" map and was thinking of removing subsector lines due to the campaign era.

 

[tbeard1999]

Question:

Where did the idea of dividing space into Sectors and Subsectors begin in the OTU?

I recall Provinces and possibly Domains being mentioned as far back as the 1st Imperium. Were Sectors and Subsectors something the 2nd or 3rd Imperium started? I believe I recall it being mentioned someplace where this system of mapping actually started.

Working on my "sector" map and was thinking of removing subsector lines due to the campaign era.

I dunno when it happened in the OTU, but subsectors appear in the first edition (1977 printing) of Classic Traveller (LBB3, Pg. 1). Interestingly, despite being called "subsectors", there is no mention of "sectors". So, conceptually, they pre-date the OTU.

I'm leaning towards eliminating subsectors in favor of more naturally-shaped entities ("Dominions" and "Territories", in my Commonwealth Campaign, are groupings of about 20-25 systems typically).

FWIW, I think that subsectors were rather pragmatically defined as the maximum number of 16mm hexes (the standard wargaming hex size in the 1970s) that could be attractively fit on a single LBB page.

 

[rancke]

Question:

Where did the idea of dividing space into Sectors and Subsectors begin in the OTU?

Sectors and subsectors were a convention of the Siru Zirka that the Second Imperium adopted. See Interstellar Wars, p. 96.


Hans

 

[Sturn]

Sectors and subsectors were a convention of the Siru Zirka that the Second Imperium adopted. See Interstellar Wars, p. 96.

Hans

Thanks, I knew I had read something like this somewhere.

Was there such a mention of this in earlier CT or MT? Or was this something new to Gurps canon later introduced?

PS: Thanks Tbeard, but I meant "in-game" historical references to who and when subsectors were developed for dividing up space.

 

[rancke]

Was there such a mention of this in earlier CT or MT? Or was this something new to Gurps canon later introduced?

I've seen it somewhere else before, but I can't recall where. I'm fairly sure it goes back to CT.


Hans

 

[Starviking]

Maybe Villani & Vargr?

 

[Sturn]

Question

The "canon" of T-4 has the 2nd Imperium reaching TL-15 before falling to the Long Night (my source is T4 Emperor's Arsenal). This doesn't feel right to me. Are there other canon sources that suggests the 2nd Imperium didn't reach this high?

2nd Imperium TL-15 seems high to me. I was hoping there was another canon source that suggested otherwise. The 2nd Imperium reached TL-12 during the Interstellar Wars. Administering a decaying empire, the 2nd Imperium still advances three TL's to 15 in 400 years before finally falling to the Long Night. The 3rd Imperium starts at TL-12 in year 0. The more stable, swiftly expanding 3rd Imperium takes around 1000 or more years to reach TL-15, even though humaniti has already been there before?

I feel the 2nd Imperium should have stagnated at TL-12 or TL-13. Is there anything canon that supports this? Or does all canon suggest TL-15 for the end of the 2nd Imperium?

 

[rancke]

Question

The "canon" of T-4 has the 2nd Imperium reaching TL-15 before falling to the Long Night (my source is T4 Emperor's Arsenal). This doesn't feel right to me. Are there other canon sources that suggests the 2nd Imperium didn't reach this high?

Some of the people who wrote for Imperium Games were experienced RPG writers with good knowledge of science fiction, but they were not familiar with previously published Traveller material. Not only are there no non-T4 sources (that I know of) that suggest that the 2nd Imperium reached TL 15, MT:Referee's Companion (p. 34) specifically states that it did not reach higher than TL 12.


Hans

 

[Sturn]

MT:Referee's Companion (p. 34) specifically states that it did not reach higher than TL 12.

Hans

Thanks Hans! Exactly what I needed and only minutes in reply! I have the Referee's Companion and just looked at page 34.

((this leads me to my next question that I will put in a new post))

 

[Sturn]

Question:

Aslan first cross the Great Rift "Jump-5" route in -1044 while the human worlds are in the throes of the Long Night. As implied, crossing a J-5 route requires TL-14 technology.

Aslan invent J-1 only in -1999.
When the more advanced 2nd Imperium falls in -1776, it is at TL-12.
When the 3rd Imperium arises in Year 0 it is at TL-12.

Solutions? The on-going way station / brown dwarf debate could allow the Aslan to cross with lesser jump drives, but then I wouldn't call it a "Jump-5" route. Aslan couldn't have imported J-5 technology, because their neighbors didn't have it.

 

[rancke]

Question:

Aslan first cross the Great Rift "Jump-5" route in -1044 while the human worlds are in the throes of the Long Night. As implied, crossing a J-5 route requires TL-14 technology.

Or the ability to jump into empty space. Chris suggests (and I agree with him) that the Aslans figured out how to so so around that time. Prior to that, you needed a brown dwarf or a sizable asteroid to cross gaps.

Aslan invent J-1 only in -1999.

Well, they copied the drive from a Terran scout vessel, but since (IMO) it would have been impossible to conceal the existence of jump-3 capability from historical analysis, maybe they were unable to copy it exactly. Probably best glossed over.

When the more advanced 2nd Imperium falls in -1776, it is at TL-12.
When the 3rd Imperium arises in Year 0 it is at TL-12.

Solutions? The on-going way station / brown dwarf debate could allow the Aslan to cross with lesser jump drives, but then I wouldn't call it a "Jump-5" route. Aslan couldn't have imported J-5 technology, because their neighbors didn't have it.

It's a J-5 route in 1100. No one says it was called a J-5 route back in -1044. Just that the Aslans managed to cross it.

BTW, note that development of the Trans-rift colonies was very slow. The Aslans first crossed in -1044 and in -1100 they till only cover 13 subsectors. Part of he explantion could be that until the Aslans got jump-5, it was much easier to head rimwards.


Hans

 

[aramis]

One should also note that CT permits small ships to exceed the TL limit for jumps by using Bk2 drives; at TL 12 one can get 400Td shipping doing J5. Not much USE for it... It's a fast courier. You could add two turrets and two more SR and make a J5 scout of it...

400Td J5 P5 M1 TL11: 20Td Bridge, JD K 55Td, PP K 31 Td, MD B 3Td, 200 Td JFuel, 50Td PPFuel, Model 5 comp (5Td), 6 SR 24Td, 10Td Cargo Crew: 6 PNEEEM

If hybridizing with HG (as permitted by HG), replace the PP with a TL12 HG PP 5 (60Td) and PPFuel (20Td), gaining 25 cargo tons (total 35). This version can sacrifice 5 tons for a turret and gunner up to four times, with four turrets, it's 15 tons cargo! Or, swap 3 turrets for barbettes and have 3 tons cargo and a nifty TL12 CT-legal rules-rape 400Td corvette.

Or, convert 28 of those 35 tons to staterooms (7: steward and 6 pass), and 4 turrets (steward, medic, and 2 engineers double up as gunners), and have 3 Td cargo...

(I'd lay odds Hans is just shaking his head about this whole post...)

It's technically, if CT is in fact a valid model of the OTU, possible to have a J5 route. It's not good for colonization, since you're spending about 300-400MCr to carry 6-13 people on that J5 route, not counting consumables, salaries, nor losses. (23.1 to 66.7MCr each person.)

 

[rancke]

One should also note that CT permits small ships to exceed the TL limit for jumps by using Bk2 drives; at TL 12 one can get 400Td shipping doing J5. Not much USE for it... It's a fast courier. You could add two turrets and two more SR and make a J5 scout of it...

400Td J5 P5 M1 TL11: 20Td Bridge, JD K 55Td, PP K 31 Td, MD B 3Td, 200 Td JFuel, 50Td PPFuel, Model 5 comp (5Td), 6 SR 24Td, 10Td Cargo Crew: 6 PNEEEM

If hybridizing with HG (as permitted by HG), replace the PP with a TL12 HG PP 5 (60Td) and PPFuel (20Td), gaining 25 cargo tons (total 35). This version can sacrifice 5 tons for a turret and gunner up to four times, with four turrets, it's 15 tons cargo! Or, swap 3 turrets for barbettes and have 3 tons cargo and a nifty TL12 CT-legal rules-rape 400Td corvette.

Or, convert 28 of those 35 tons to staterooms (7: steward and 6 pass), and 4 turrets (steward, medic, and 2 engineers double up as gunners), and have 3 Td cargo...

(I'd lay odds Hans is just shaking his head about this whole post...)

You must like betting on a sure thing .

Allow me to suggest that using a technical loophole to create ships with built-in contradictions is not the way to increase the verisimilitude of the setting.

It's technically, if CT is in fact a valid model of the OTU, possible to have a J5 route. It's not good for colonization, since you're spending about 300-400MCr to carry 6-13 people on that J5 route, not counting consumables, salaries, nor losses. (23.1 to 66.7MCr each person.)

But since it is trivially easy to demonstrate contradictions between Book 2 and HG, CT is obviously (in this respect) not a valid model of the OTU. But you know that already.


Hans

 

[Sturn]

Well, they copied the drive from a Terran scout vessel, but since (IMO) it would have been impossible to conceal the existence of jump-3 capability from historical analysis, maybe they were unable to copy it exactly. Probably best glossed over.

I said "invented J-1" since that is what the first Aslan timeline (AM 1) stated IIRC.

It's a J-5 route in 1100. No one says it was called a J-5 route back in -1044. Just that the Aslans managed to cross it.

The canon references say, "first crossing of the J-5 route" and "discovery of the J-5 route" listing a date of -1044. If the Aslan crossed using some means other then Jump 5 the wording should be more like, "The Aslan crossed the Great Rift using way stations" or something similar, not "using the J-5 route" that was used later.

Just semantics I guess. Perhaps the wording should be, "In -1044 the Aslan first crossed what would later be known as the J-5 route using waystations due to having only J-3 capability".

Aramis - Thanks for the long post, but I don't think I want to open another can of worms (lower tech making J-5's). I would then have to come up with new reasons for my campaign for such thing as why the Terrans never sent a small scout ship to Barnard's Star before completing their way station.

 

[aramis]

You must like betting on a sure thing .

Allow me to suggest that using a technical loophole to create ships with built-in contradictions is not the way to increase the verisimilitude of the setting.


But since it is trivially easy to demonstrate contradictions between Book 2 and HG, CT is obviously (in this respect) not a valid model of the OTU. But you know that already.


Hans

No, I think it's a perfect model of 3 very different OTUs... These two designs are both valid in one, and one of them is valid in two, and neither is valid in the third, but the rules consistently happen to be using the second... until we get a shift in physics with MegaTraveller...

 

[rancke]

No, I think it's a perfect model of 3 very different OTUs...

There's only one OTU. That's the whole point of having an OTU.


Hans

 

[rancke]

I said "invented J-1" since that is what the first Aslan timeline (AM 6) stated IIRC.

It says "Aslan invention of jump drive." (AM1, p. 35). And it's one of the bits that was retconned at a later date when DGP published an adventure (with the full knoledge and approval of Marc Miller) where the PCs dicovered that the Aslans had not, contrary to what everybody believed, invented it but rather copied it from a hipwrecked Terrran scout ship.

The canon references say, "first crossing of the J-5 route" and "discovery of the J-5 route" listing a date of -1044. If the Aslan crossed using some means other then Jump 5 the wording should be more like, "The Aslan crossed the Great Rift using way stations" or something similar, not "using the J-5 route" that was used later.

So you weigh the available evidence and decide which is more likely: That the Aslan had TL 14 in -1044 or that the wording is a bit clumsy.

Just semantics I guess. Perhaps the wording should be, "In -1044 the Aslan first crossed what would later be known as the J-5 route using waystations due to having only J-3 capability".

More likely each expedition made their own way across by jumping out and back, laying out fuel depots, until there was enough fuel to carry them acros.


Hans

 

[Qstor2]

There's a whole thread on the Mongoose boards too about empty hex jumps and GURPS Interstellar Wars. That might have some more points on early explorations.

Mike