Terran Dawn Campaign Guide [Progress, Questions]

[Sturn]

So you weigh the available evidence and decide which is more likely: That the Aslan had TL 14 in -1044 or that the wording is a bit clumsy.

I recently discovered that newer versions of the AM1 timeline (such as in the MT Referee's Companion, pg 70) did in fact change the wording to, "First crossing of the Great Rift" instead of "First use or discovery of the J-5 route", which makes more sense and makes me happier. It seems others had this same discussion between the release of AM1 and MT.

More likely each expedition made their own way across by jumping out and back, laying out fuel depots, until there was enough fuel to carry them across.

I said way stations, but I meant basically the same thing. I guess you meant there would not be a permanent base at each point, but just a temporary cache.

 

[kafka47]

Yes, you are right about the writers, Hans but wrong about the ROM. There is no reason to believe that some isolated worlds or regions (future Pocket Empires) would not have reached as far as TL F in the ROM. The reason that this did not become more generalized has to do with how the ROM was set up. We have the example of the Darrians reaching stellar TLs in the Long Night. Therefore, what the Referee's Manual states can be overridden by commonsense. Certain worlds with certain conditions might have reached higher than TL 12 in some areas but remained stagnant in others. Therefore, the average high for the Second Imperium remains TL 12...rather than pronouncing it was not so.

 

[rancke]

Yes, you are right about the writers, Hans but wrong about the ROM. There is no reason to believe that some isolated worlds or regions (future Pocket Empires) would not have reached as far as TL F in the ROM.

Yes, there is a reason to believe this, over and above the statement in Referee's Companion that the highest tech level achieved by the Second Imperium was 12. You're quite right that some worlds might have reached higher than TL 12, but if they did, the knowledge was lost again, and wasn't recovered even when the Third Imperium arose (The Third Imperium didn't reach TL 13 until 300). So for each piece of knowledge you want to establish existed somewhere in the Rule of Man, you have to explain why it did not become widespread enough to leave behind textbooks or examples that could be reverse-engineered. Technology generally does not get discovered in isolation. The existence of a TL 15 technology implies a foundation of TL14 knowledge to build on, which in turn implies a broader foundation of TL 13 knowledge. And unless this is proprietary technology, it will be disseminated. And as Sprague de Camp says in Lest Darkness Fall, "Not even the most dilligently destructive barbarian can extirpate the written word from a culture wherein the minimum edition of most books is fifteen hundred copies. There are just too many books."

The occasional nifty TL 13 dingus lurking in the relics of the RoM is acceptable. TL 15 dingusses are, IMO, not.


Hans

 

[Sturn]

This isn't dead, been working on it about every other day.

More Progress

I finally finished UWPs for the Solomani Rim sector towards the end of the Long Night. Probably over 50 hours put into this. I didn't just randomnly adjust the UWPs, I had a system of sorts and read everything I could find on the UWPs and worlds of the Solomani Rim in the Interstellar War period and later Classic period before settling on a final UWP. Each UWP for every single world was considered. I ended up with not just UWPs but historical notes on almost every world in the sector.

Graphical map nearing completition.

States of Terran Dawn

I have tons of notes on what I'm doing with each "pocket empire" and geographical area in the sector. I was hoping for many, varied, settings. Here is a very brief rundown on each. Please tell me if anything doesn't feel "right" to anyone who has studied this period and era:

Dingir League: One of the two nations of what will probably be the primary play area for my campaign. Dingir, once captial of the 2nd Imperium, is the capital and driving force behind the league of planets. Founded by 2nd Imperium naval forces. Government is very militaristic, naval rank equates to political rank and social status. Protagonist of the Old Earth Union, currently in a "warm" war along their trailing border. Spinward, dealing with pirates of the Reaver's Alliance. TL11 max.

Old Earth Union: The other of the two nations in the main play area. Capital is Terra. TL 11, but on the edge of TL12. Their "nobles" are corporate and political leaders. Conflict with Dingir League to spinward. They have attempted to expland in other directions, but have ran into other states, rifts, and worlds resisting incorporation. Terra is a mixture of advanced technology and a stagnated society. A cyberpunkish setting if needed.

Easter Concord: Loose federation of many worlds on the coreward side of the sector. Noble council of world leaders meets on the world of Easter. The largest state in number of worlds, TL11 max, but not interested in any drastic expansion. Considered a sleeping giant best left untouched by the other pocket empires. The leaders of the worlds that enter the Easter Concord are given a relative noble status. Vilani culture more prevalent then in other areas. Leaders are classic Traveller nobles.

Vegan Polity: An alien pocket empire set between Easter (coreward) and Dingir/Old Earth (rimward). Not much different then the future Vegan Autonomous District, but includes only the worlds within the J1 cluster. TL9-10 tops. They lost contact with worlds across J2 gaps during the Long Night, but purchased technology has allowed them to recently begin communicating with them again.

Near Bootes Cluster: A frontier area. TL9 tops. Not a true state, but the worlds of the cluster had been communicating and forming an unofficial alliance against contact from the Old Earth Union.

Arcturus Federation: A small, somewhat isolated, TL10 state. Trades with the Vegan Polity through the world of Shulgiasu.

Shulgiasu: Not a pocket empire, but an independent world. Shulgiasu is at a trade nexus between the Vegan Polity, Arcturus Federation, and a long J1 main of independent worlds. Shulgiasu is similar to a Hong Kong of ancient Terra, enjoying a mixture of cultures and trade. One of the few areas that enjoys large scale inter-pocket empire trade.

Logan's Run: Just a funny holding name for now. A long J1 main of independent worlds with TL9 tops. Many varying worlds along a frontier main ripe for opportunity. One end contacts Shulgiasu.

The Outback: Barely explored, barely settled.

Reaver's Alliance: Loose alliance of pirate warlords to spinward. Currently harassing Dingir. TL10 tops and some stolen TL11. A very unlawful region except where Reaver warlords have imposed their dictators' will upon populations.

Other stuff

Tons of notes on trade practices, technology levels, militaries of each state, starcraft of each state, and corporations. I've used every source of information I could find to develop my notes, filling in uncovered areas with my own creations only when needed and guided by what is known.

This has turned into a mammoth project, but I've put in way too much time to stop now.

 

[barrataria]

verrrrry interesting

The Long Night is an interesting period anyway, and the "open space" you're leaving between the various areas is cool. Gives scouts something to do again :rofl:

 

[Sturn]

Progress Report:

History Chapter done.

Sector map and UWPs done.

Working on a Gazetteer chapter (describing nations, regions, smaller scale maps).

Getting critiques off-line from a board member that has been helping lots.

 

[Sturn]

I have a "beta" version of the History chapter up for comment at the website in my signature below.

 

[Sturn]

Questions

I'm making icons or symbols (such as the 3rd Imp. starburst) for several states in Terran Dawn or its history. But, I can't find symbols for all that I need:

1st Imperium: This symbol is easily found -Circle within a circle. But what is the true coloring? Seen many in black and white. One I found has the larger circle in black, the inner circle in red. Is this the correct coloring or is this an alternate such has some versions of the Starburst?

Terran Confederation: I have this one also. UN symbol with stars instead of laurels.

2nd Imperium: Rule of Man. I thought I saw this symbol somewhere, but can't find it now.

Splinter States of the Long Night: Old Earth Union, Easter Concord, Dingir League. I don't think anyone has ever created symbols for these, but someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Progress

As stated below, I created a one-page website for Terran Dawn. Currently I have my first version of the History chapter available for download from the site. I need comments.

 

[rancke]

Sturn, you had a post about the Vilani symbol on the Mongoose boards. I'm answering you here because I've forgotten my password there.

With some googling, I translated "sable, the Vilani chaplet gules" as "black, the Vilani circle red".

The term "the Vilani chaplet" I got from GT:Nobles (the exact term used is 'the chaplet of the Vilani'). According to Merriam-Webster, a chaplet is either a wreath to be worn on the head, a string of beads, a part of a rosary comprising five decades, or. a small molding carved with small decorative forms.

Of the four, I'd say the first is the most likely. Or it could be a homononymous neologism with a fifth meaning. Maybe Jon or Loren (whichever one of them wrote it) can remember what he was thinking of when he wrote it.

Anyway, whatever the etymology, I take 'the Vilani chaplet' to be a heraldic term for the symbol. If that is the case, then the symbol is most probably a disk with a hole in it, not a red disk with a smaller black disk superimposed. The difference? That the smaller disk will always be the color of the underlying field. Otherwise, the color of the small disk should have been mentioned too ("On a black field, a red Vilani chaplet with a black circle" ).

Apparently in Gurps sources, an ancient knighthood was allowed to reverse the colors for their emblem.

There's nothing unusual in varying the colors of heraldic charges. In this case, it would indicate that the order was not claiming to be the rightful government of the 1st Imperium .

Every one of the graphics of ships in Gurps: Interstellar Wars has this variation. An explanation that keeps the original sources and Gurps in line is that these ships were members of this knighthood that wasn't so ancient and more common during the 1st Imperium.

I take it you mean that the symbol on the ships is a small red disk on a black disk instead of a black disk on a red like the Order of Vland? Not a contradiction if the original symbol was a red disk on a black one and had not yet morphed into the heraldic symbol used by the 3rd Imperium's Office of Arms.

It is quite possible that the Vilani also varied the colors of the symbol for other organizations, though.


Hans

 

[Sturn]

.....According to Merriam-Webster, a chaplet is either a wreath to be worn on the head, a string of beads, a part of a rosary comprising five decades, or. a small molding carved with small decorative forms...

Wreath was the most common definition in my search too. But, the Ziru Sirka symbol does not have a wreath of course. Many of the definitions suggested something circular. That is why I took the phrase as meaning the inner circle was red set on a sable, or black, background for the Order of Vland.

......Otherwise, the color of the small disk should have been mentioned too ("On a black field, a red Vilani chaplet with a black circle" )...

I'm confused here, but I don't have the quote directly from Nobles. The quote from your TravWiki does mention both black (sable) and red colors for the Order of Vland symbol.

......If that is the case, then the symbol is most probably a disk with a hole in it

The symbols in Gurps:IW are large black, small red, and are not set on a red background.

I take it you mean that the symbol on the ships is a small red disk on a black disk instead of a black disk on a red like the Order of Vland? Not a contradiction if the original symbol was a red disk on a black one and had not yet morphed into the heraldic symbol used by the 3rd Imperium's Office of Arms.

From what I've discovered, the earliest version of the Ziru Sirka symbol was found in the boardgame Imperium. I have it in the basement, haven't pulled it out, but was told it was a large red sphere with the smaller sphere in black. Taking that as the original for the Ziru Sirka, I took the translation of the Order of Vland to be the reverse coloring. So the symbols on the Gurps: IW are the reverse of the original in my thinking, just like the Order of Vland.

Thanks for the response Hans. I asked only on the Mongoose forums since I wasn't getting much response over here of late to posts. I usually make duplicate posts on both forums when I have a question.

 

[rancke]

Wreath was the most common definition in my search too. But, the Ziru Sirka symbol does not have a wreath of course. Many of the definitions suggested something circular. That is why I took the phrase as meaning the inner circle was red set on a sable, or black, background for the Order of Vland.

The Ziru Sirka symbol on the illustrations from IW are separated from the founding of the Order of Vland by over 2000 years and from the description in Nobles by over a thousand more. I'm not saying that the Siru Sirka symbol is a wreath. I'm suggesting that the heraldic charge on the Order of Vland's heraldic achievement is a disk with a hole in it that is known as a Vilani chaplet.

I'm confused here, but I don't have the quote directly from Nobles. The quote from your TravWiki does mention both black (sable) and red colors for the Order of Vland symbol.

The difference between a disk superimposed on another disk and a disk with a hole in it is that in the first case, you could have a disk of one color with a smaller disk of another displayed on a field of a third color. If it's a disk with a hole in it, the smaller disk is automatically the same color as the field (since it IS the field you see through the hole).

From what I've discovered, the earliest version of the Ziru Sirka symbol was found in the boardgame Imperium. I have it in the basement, haven't pulled it out, but was told it was a large red sphere with the smaller sphere in black. Taking that as the original for the Ziru Sirka, I took the translation of the Order of Vland to be the reverse coloring. So the symbols on the Gurps: IW are the reverse of the original in my thinking, just like the Order of Vland.

IW is better canon than Imperium. Just because Imperium claims that the Imperium has about 70 worlds doesn't mean we believe that, right? It's true that illustrations are inferior canon to text, but they're still better than unit counters for a proto-Imperium.

However, I suggested that the colors might vary. The red on black might be the Vilani Navy while the black on red was the whole Imperium.


Hans

 

[Sturn]

However, I suggested that the colors might vary. The red on black might be the Vilani Navy while the black on red was the whole Imperium.

I like this explanation the best. And it adds a historical reason for the later 3rd Imperium starburst doing the same.

 

[rancke]

I just checked out the use of the Vilani symbol on the Imperium counters. It's used for the two levels of settlements that the game features, colonies and mainworlds (possibly not the correct terms). Colonies have a red circle inside a white (on a red background) and mainworlds have a black circle inside a red (on a black background). The only reason to believe that the symbol is NOT a disk with a hole in it is thus the illustrations in IW, and they don't prove anything either way (i.e. the symbol on the ships may simply not have a background).

Also, the Terran counterparts has the UN symbol black on green for mainworlds and black on blue for colonies, Neither are the white on blue of the true symbol, which means that taking the counters as evidence for the "true" colors is quite iffy.

It's possible that there has been some textual evidence about the symbol, but if so, I don't know of it. The "it's a black Vland against a red sun" explanation could easily be folk etymology.

Sorry if this is very not-helpful. If there is text on the subject, it would be Real Nice if someone could dig it out and quote it for us.



Hans

 

[Sturn]

Sorry if this is very not-helpful. If there is text on the subject, it would be Real Nice if someone could dig it out and quote it for us.

I agree. I do recall something from years ago about an eclipse, but have no idea where that came from. Could have just been speculation such as ours on a forum.

Thanks for the research. I've found the same counters and agree with you. I have to make a choice for an icon in my documents (that aren't upon any background except the paper they are printed on perhaps). For the basic background I'm gonna go with the red with small black sphere for now. If I made a graphic with a vehicle, uniform, or starship, I just might go with the empty circle.

 

[Sturn]

Question

The megacorporation GSbAG in CT originally reported a history of being founded on ancient Terra. Later (originally in Gurps? perhaps T4's Melieu 0?) this changed. The new history states that GSbAG claims to have been founded on ancient Terra, but was actually founded during the rise of the Sylean Federation.

Any Traveller scholars know why this change in canon occurred?

 

[rancke]

Question

The megacorporation GSbAG in CT originally reported a history of being founded on ancient Terra. Later (originally in Gurps? perhaps T4's Melieu 0?) this changed. The new history states that GSbAG claims to have been founded on ancient Terra, but was actually founded during the rise of the Sylean Federation.

Any Traveller scholars know why this change in canon occurred?

Are you sure it was ever anything more than a disputed claim? LDAM, p. 41 says it's company propaganda. Where did you find the CT reference that says otherwise? IIRC this is the first mention of most of the megacorporations, but GSbAG could be one of the exceptions.


Hans

 

[Sturn]

Thanks again Rancke. I was going from memory. I thought the propoganda line didn't come into play until after CT. I looked up the Library Data. I must have read this wrong the first time when I put GAsBG on a list of possible corporations around during the 2nd Imperium. I will remove it and thanks for the quick response.

 

[Sturn]

Progress

V1.03 of History is final for now as I move on to the Gazetteer

I also put up a Research pdf that lists all of my sources. Dry stuff. If you see some source that is relevent that I missed please tell me.

(link in my signature)

 

[Sturn]

Progress - New files up

I uploaded a player and referee version of a "Gazetteer" for the Terran Dawn campaign. Criticisms welcome. These documents include a sector map and UWP list. Link to the website in my signature below has these new pdfs and my previously completed history document.

Next Project

I'm now moving on to "The Old Earth" pocket campaign guide. These will be the beef of any campaign. Each pocket guide will cover a portion of the sector with information on interstellar governments, militaries, culture, common vehicles and starships encountered, a regional map, world descriptions, maps of the most important worlds, etc.

Once I get done with The Old Earth pocket guide, there will be enough for me or anyone else to start a campaign in this default starting location. Other guides will expand to other areas. I plan on each guide having a true difference in campaign character (military, exploration, court intrigue, etc).

Special thanks to Smiths121 and Rust for some excellent off-board criticism.

 

[Sturn]

Progress

Still working on the campaign guide for the Old Earth Union. It's grown to almost 70 pages with sections on history, government, military, culture, technology, organizations and worlds. Nothing that I can release yet, sorry.