That's right, 50 kiloton Cruiser Deckplans!

[RocketDad]

How big are the squares on your maps? From the galley/mess, I get the feeling that are a bit larger than 1.5m??

Actually, they are 1.5 meters (five feet). The tables are 75 cm square, the size of the tables at an ice cream parlor my wife and I used to own. The chairs are proportioned to the tables. I agree, they look on the small side, but there ya go.

(EDIT) Okay, so I looked at the tables again, and they're more like 50cm square (sigh) I doesn't matter; the entire deck is a little too short and needs to have gastight access to the number one and two broadside bay's first deck. These would open into the med lab and one of the ORs in the current design. Oh, well. Back to the drawing tablet!

 

[JFGarber]

Where is entry to #9/ICU? Based on RL experience with design of medical centers, I recommend a double door (or hatch depending on your terminology) from the surgical suites to the ICU. Alternatively, you could get away with a 1.5x size hatch at those three compartments, and double the width of the passage connecting them. Rotating gurneys 90 degrees takes a surprising amount of space. It's likely that Medical Imaging will need to accommodate persons confined to a gurney, so the same geometric requirements apply. If you have the choice, it may be better to locate imaging directly adjacent to surgery.

Also, it appears that you have a glass window between ICU and the nurse's station. Nursing staff will want to directly step from the station into the ICU, rather than out into the passage and around corners.

This is fantastic work that you're doing. I never got beyond floor plans for a Scout. I'm looking forward to your finished product.

 

[Carlobrand]

I'm a little confused. Is this being designed to Traveller norms?

Typical crew complement on a Traveller 50 kilotonner runs to 250-300 or so, officers maybe a quarter of that. You've got what looks like seating for 80 officers and 160 or so others. Are you expecting to sit the full ship's complement at a single sitting? You might save space by cutting that in half and scheduling crew to dine in two sittings, on the argument that the rest need to be at stations running the ship. Your ship runs to a 24-hour schedule (roughly, depending on what time conventions your fleet holds to); depending on how you run that - and the folk here with seagoing experience will know more about that than I would - that may also impact the peak numbers your dining rooms can expect to see.

I'm using a few rules of thumb derived from commercial sources: 5 square feet of kitchen space per seated diner, 10 square feet of dining space per diner for institutional diners (that's the long rectangular school-cafeteria style tables) - more if I want an officer's mess. You sound like you've got some commercial food establishment experience; how does that rate with your experience of real-world business? My convention is to run a large ship by thirds: a third at duty stations, a third off-duty and awake, and a third in the bunks at any given time, assuming peacetime status. I'd design the dining to handle about half the ship's complement at any given time, figuring that between folk at duty stations and multiple sittings, peak traffic isn't going to exceed half the crew.

As to your medical - that's a lot of medical for a couple or three hundred folk. This looks more like what an aircraft carrier with a couple thousand crew might carry. Is it intended to provide PR medical services to planetary populations during its tours? Peak medical demand's likely to result from combat injuries; at other times, most of that capacity's sitting idle. You might consider dropping the main ward entirely and consigning those injured to their stateroom bunks: despite its size, ship and crew are small enough that folk not in need of an ICU can be monitored remotely and receive nursing services in quarters. ICU's also large for the number of crew: the ship should carry enough spare equipment and stores to expand medical services as needed, grabbing space out of the mess hall and other recreational spaces if casualties exceed existing capacity, so there isn't a need for much more than the occasional accident casualty - maybe two or three beds, tops.

On the same basis, there isn't need for a dedicated ob/gyn or dental room: given the frequency of pregnancy for a crew of 300, a pregnant crewman can be evaluated in the same evaluation room that any other crewman's evaluated in without impairing efficiency of the medical department, and with the medical section only a couple hundred yards off, the medical staff can borrow a stateroom for delivery. That same evaluation room that serves sick call can be equipped with dental equipment for the occasional dental patient; the dental care time needed for a 300-man crew doesn't call for a separate room that will mostly sit idle between them.

 

[Vladika]

On the same basis, there isn't need for a dedicated ob/gyn or dental room: given the frequency of pregnancy for a crew of 300, a pregnant crewman can be evaluated in the same evaluation room that any other crewman's evaluated in without impairing efficiency of the medical department, and with the medical section only a couple hundred yards off, the medical staff can borrow a stateroom for delivery. That same evaluation room that serves sick call can be equipped with dental equipment for the occasional dental patient; the dental care time needed for a 300-man crew doesn't call for a separate room that will mostly sit idle between them.

Using the US Navy (wet navy) as an example, dental is usually, full time, only on carriers (crew 5000 plus).

Pregnant women are removed from ships right away and, under certain conditions, separated from the military.

 

[aramis]

Women are supposed to see a Gynecologist annually, plus within 30 days of certain conditions. Very few gynecological emergencies; most of those can be handled by use of part time stirrups on a standard exam table (most of the womenfolk I know hate all gyn exams) and by a GP. What I've seen indicates a normal annual is roughly 1 hour, but only half of that is the doc. (10m with the tech, and 20 min waiting between.) So, assuming a 40 hour week, 40 min per patient, 60 patients a week, 52 weeks, 1 per 3000 women. (allowing for occasional overages)

Dental needs special tools. But most people can get by with once or twice a year. If a dentist is present, he's probably got a 3mx3m dedicated workspace with dental imaging tools as well as lights, patient chair, doc's chair, autoclave, meds locker, Gas anesthesia system. Figure a dental appointment runs 30 min, a dentist works 16 appointments per day, 5 per week, for 80 patients a week, x52 weeks... you need a full time dentist per 4000 or so for once a year, per 2000 for twice a year.

 

[RocketDad]

Deck 2 Redux

I appreciate all of the imput! Now, to answer some questions:

1) The stats for this ship were made with Mongoose Traveller.

2) The ship has a capacity of nearly 1300 beings. The reason it's so high is their non-OTU armament: Magazines of 50 dton Ship Killer Missiles. These monsters are launched from magnetic tubes, just like the fighters, and each requires 10 crewers in addition to three in launch control (the Engineer, Computer Tech, and Launch Commander) The Crew is over-strength at 150% also. There are 4 Modular Cutters , 2 Pinnaces, 24 fighters, and 16 gigs, each with 2 pilots and dedicated deck crews. The last addition to the compliment (and also part of the 1300 number) Is a Company of 202 Marines.

3) I agree about the size of the hatchs and the corridors - definitely not enough room for gurneys. I also left out the port and starbord airlocks (leading to Broadsides 1&2) and made the whole deck about 4 squares too short.

4) I agree about the corridor size and hatch width; I fixed them. The reason the sickbay was so large, with dental and gynecology departments and such, is that the cruiser is designed for independent operations and therefore cannot always depend on the larger facilities of a battleship or dreadnought. And the cruisers do indeed make their medical complex available to outsiders, which is the original reason I envisioned it so large. If nothing else, this kind of setup makes TL15, Imperial standard, medical care available to personnel stationed way the hell and get out, like small starports, embassies, and close escorts .
The reason I thought having an OB/GYN is the same as the reason for having a Xenologist: The Imperial Navy has been integrated for millennia. That kind of specialist would be perfectly normal in the eyes of The 3I's version of BuShips and BuPers, so I thought I would include it. That being said, there was simply no room, so dental, Xeno, and the OB/Gyn were deleted anyway. Oh, well...

5) Enough talk, here's the deckplan!

 

[aramis]

You've got plenty of room for a dental room. Put your medical stuff all on one hallway, and have the mess table space fill the leftovers. Mess space doesn't need to be one single large block (or two).

If you rotate the the ward/ICU/waiting/Med Stores so that the ward directly abuts the surgical hall, and then slide the ICU down... aw, heck...

Have a thumbnail...

It still leaves 3m clearance out the elevator. And moves the med storage into a compartment, rather than in the main throughfare, and adds a dental office off the medical waiting.

 

[RocketDad]

I like it! It definately seems to be a more efficient use of space. I think I'd still close of the mess halls in order to have compartmentalize the space in case of hull breech.

 

[aramis]

I like it! It definately seems to be a more efficient use of space. I think I'd still close of the mess halls in order to have compartmentalize the space in case of hull breech.

I wasn't even looking at "efficientizing" the rest of it. The "upper" mess hall is where I'd move the morgue and ELB's - straight shot in - and move the kitchen down to that corner, move the rest of the stuff up in to the rest of the upper dining hall, and make one L shaped mess tables area, plus a couple private dining rooms with movable partition walls - allowing for use as private party rec or for conference, and yet, openable for the main space... but that's just me.

The rotation of that one block was just an, "Oh, DUH!" moment for me.

 

[Garyius2003]

There are really a few choices for mess decks/weapons assembly areas/medical expansion areas.

You could do things the Royal Navy used to, and have the berthing area a little bigger and have gangs mess together. That means you lose that bigger space.

You could go American style, with larger mess decks and folding tables that can also be used for other important ship tasks. One ship I rode on used partitions to make special dining areas but still be able to use the larger space. In American ships, the mess deck is likely to be the biggest multi purpose space (yes, a hanger deck or well deck or vehicle cargo deck is bigger, but is almost never usable). The larger ships also have small quiet rooms for study, worship groups for smaller faiths, movies for small groups (and less officially, sex)

Or you could go hybrid. Smaller rooms, that can be used to eat, group game playing, study, sex, expansion room for medical healing where the cold sleep is not needed but medical slow is. Leaving aside Mongoose's (almost unreadable) designs, and the High Lightening design, I suspect the 3I trends this way.

 

[RocketDad]

Most of the crew eats in decentralized mess halls along with their stateroom areas in the broadside segments and the bow/stern These mess halls are for the engineering, command, and flight crews. I feel that the separate wardroom is a necessity - if a democracy segregates ranks into separate messes, then an empire surely will. The size of the mess halls is just about minimum as well, as there are 130 officers and over eleven hundred rating aboard. I have them where they are to handle spill over from the sickbay - another naval tradition. I admit there are more efficient designs, but sometimes convention and especially tradition trumps efficiency. Heck, even the lowest naval rating in Traveller gets a 2-man stateroom to sleep in instead of a huge barracks bloc. It's good to be a sailor...

 

[mentis]

I can imagine the jokes on board ship about those who eat in the mess on the same deck as medical. Something like, "The food is so bad in that mess that after mess call you have to go straight to the infirmary!"

 

[PFVA63]

Hi,

Nice work. I might be useful if you could add an overhead view of a typical character somewhere to help some of us visualize scale.

 

[SoCar_37]

Most of the crew eats in decentralized mess halls along with their stateroom areas in the broadside segments and the bow/stern These mess halls are for the engineering, command, and flight crews. I feel that the separate wardroom is a necessity - if a democracy segregates ranks into separate messes, then an empire surely will. The size of the mess halls is just about minimum as well, as there are 130 officers and over eleven hundred rating aboard. I have them where they are to handle spill over from the sickbay - another naval tradition. I admit there are more efficient designs, but sometimes convention and especially tradition trumps efficiency. Heck, even the lowest naval rating in Traveller gets a 2-man stateroom to sleep in instead of a huge barracks bloc. It's good to be a sailor...

A big reason for separate Wardroom (and CPO Mess) in today's navies is that some things are not for open discussion in front of the general population.

SoCar-37
Prepared in Mind & Resources

 

[Carlobrand]

... Heck, even the lowest naval rating in Traveller gets a 2-man stateroom to sleep in instead of a huge barracks bloc. It's good to be a sailor...

Don't abandon the idea of a barracks. I don't know how Mongoose does it, but the CT 4 dT allotment covers everything from the bedroom to the hallways and laundry room, and there's no rule (in CT) that says you have to have a wall between two or more staterooms. Commercial passengers won't tolerate it, but taking out walls to turn several staterooms into one barracks can be more efficient for military personnel. For one thing, it allows the sergeant to address or inspect a larger group without needing a separate assembly area; it lets the sleeping area double as a small assembly area. For another, it can promote unit cohesion - for example, putting the four men of a fire team or the eight men of a section in one room with their corporal. If you're tight for space, it can also allow you to eliminate some hallways and squeeze a bit more space out for other military needs like an armory.

It's also a handy way to provide a tangible benefit for increased rank: the naval recruits get an 8-person barracks room, those who've gained a rank or two get a 4-person room, the NCOs get the coveted 2-person rooms. Makes it smart a bit more if you get masted for some offense and lose a stripe.

 

[PFVA63]

Hi,

I think CarloBrand makes an important point. Even if you assume two or three high racks, communal fresher and shower spaces, lockers, and such the space taken up may not be as small as you might think and if you start adding in physical fitness spaces, mess decks, galleys, medical spaces, laundries, passageways and stores spaces things may begin to really add up.

 

[Patron Zero]

Wow, 50K tons, does the ship's plaque read 'Go Big or Go Home.' ?

 

[aramis]

A big reason for separate Wardroom (and CPO Mess) in today's navies is that some things are not for open discussion in front of the general population.

For the subtlety challenged: the Wardroom, Chief's Mess, and Warrant's Mess (if one exists) are used for work spaces as well as eating, and for working meals (eat and work at the same time - often coordination of various issues).

It's also not uncommon for those spaces to be used as meeting rooms for promotion boards...

 

[SoCar_37]

For the subtlety challenged: the Wardroom, Chief's Mess, and Warrant's Mess (if one exists) are used for work spaces as well as eating, and for working meals (eat and work at the same time - often coordination of various issues).

It's also not uncommon for those spaces to be used as meeting rooms for promotion boards...

...Or Disciplinary Review Boards, Spacehand of the Quarter Boards, Qualification Boards...

SoCar-37
Prepared in Mind and Resources

 

[martletsquire]

Totally decent idea for a build

Now that we have views and some decks....

What are the stats?

Jonesing for Stats.

Thanks