RobertFisher
SOC-12
The Spinward Marches & the Solomani Rim were published as Supplements 3 & 10.
What was the 3rd sector published?
What was the 3rd sector published?
The 3rd sector published
- Thread starter RobertFisher
- Start date
RandyT0001
SOC-13
I'm assuming you're asking about the 3rd sector GDW published and are not inquiring about non-GDW published sectors.
My guess: Corridor in Memory Alpha
My guess: Corridor in Memory Alpha
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
There was Massilia published in the MT adventure Knightfall, Diaspora sector in the MT folio adventure of that name, and HinterWorlds sector which was a special supplement in a Challenge magazine.
RobertFisher
SOC-12
Cool. Right there in the big floppy book. Didn't even realize I had it.
I'm really bad about forgetting the non-GDW stuff. (Never had or even saw any of it.)
Robert,
I believe Randy's suggestion of Corridor as the third sector published is the one to bet on. However, the maps and data we have for Corridor in 2005 may not be the maps and data originally developed for Corridor!
Memory Alpha was originally a convention game handout and no copies of that handout are known to exist. The version of Memory Alpha found in the Reprints was pieced together for FFE from recollections and notes. The Corridor maps and data in this version are DGP/GDW work from the late CT/early MT period with wholly CT alliegence codes. Whether these CT/MT maps were based on the lost MA maps is unknown.
Because our only version of MA is a partially recreation of the original and because both versions of MA dealt with fewer than a dozen worlds the in Corridor Sector, it is entirely possible that most of Corridor is on the same vintage as the other DGP MT maps from the 'Four Knights' adventures.
After some thought, I think the only other sector that *may* possibly contain sections that are 'older' than Corridor is Dark Nebula. ISTR recall that the Keiths were working there well before the CT's 'Land Grants' were awarded. The various subsectors the Keiths created were grafted into the Dark Nebula Sector as a whole. Unlike the work of the other CT 'Land Grantees', the Keiths' work have never been decanonized.
The history of Traveller's mapping efforts is an intriguing one. Did you know that an early library data entry of the Imperium's capital; then only known as 'Capital' and not Sylea, described that system as a world controlling the only crossing in a rift for thousands of parsecs? Just think what the Imperium would look like if GDW had stuck with that idea!
Have fun,
Bill
I believe Randy's suggestion of Corridor as the third sector published is the one to bet on. However, the maps and data we have for Corridor in 2005 may not be the maps and data originally developed for Corridor!
Memory Alpha was originally a convention game handout and no copies of that handout are known to exist. The version of Memory Alpha found in the Reprints was pieced together for FFE from recollections and notes. The Corridor maps and data in this version are DGP/GDW work from the late CT/early MT period with wholly CT alliegence codes. Whether these CT/MT maps were based on the lost MA maps is unknown.
Because our only version of MA is a partially recreation of the original and because both versions of MA dealt with fewer than a dozen worlds the in Corridor Sector, it is entirely possible that most of Corridor is on the same vintage as the other DGP MT maps from the 'Four Knights' adventures.
After some thought, I think the only other sector that *may* possibly contain sections that are 'older' than Corridor is Dark Nebula. ISTR recall that the Keiths were working there well before the CT's 'Land Grants' were awarded. The various subsectors the Keiths created were grafted into the Dark Nebula Sector as a whole. Unlike the work of the other CT 'Land Grantees', the Keiths' work have never been decanonized.
The history of Traveller's mapping efforts is an intriguing one. Did you know that an early library data entry of the Imperium's capital; then only known as 'Capital' and not Sylea, described that system as a world controlling the only crossing in a rift for thousands of parsecs? Just think what the Imperium would look like if GDW had stuck with that idea!
Have fun,
Bill
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I'd forgotten about that one - good spot daryen
daryen
SOC-14 1K
True, true. The sad part is that I was looking straight at the Reprint book when I typed that in.
Hey, now it's my turn. Those sectors were published by Judge's Guild, not DGP. DGP didn't come until much later.
And I did qualify my statement by saying that it was the third sector published by GDW. I had no idea which was the third sector published by anyone. (Actually, if you open it up past GDW, there is no guarantee the Solomani Rim was second.)
RandyT0001
SOC-13
If we are talking only GDW published sectors then:
Alien Module 3:Vargr was published in 1984. What month did it come out?
Memory Alpha was an adventure in very limited publication for Origins and GenCon in 1984. Origins is normally held in July and GenCon is in August.
So did AM:3 come out before July? (I seem to recall that it was published in October but I could be mistaken (or my FLGS at the time got it in late).)
If we are including non-GDW sectors then Ley by Judges Guild would be second. The other three sectors by JG were published in 1981. Solomani Rim was published in 1982 making it the sixth Traveller sector published at best.
Alien Module 3:Vargr was published in 1984. What month did it come out?
Memory Alpha was an adventure in very limited publication for Origins and GenCon in 1984. Origins is normally held in July and GenCon is in August.
So did AM:3 come out before July? (I seem to recall that it was published in October but I could be mistaken (or my FLGS at the time got it in late).)
If we are including non-GDW sectors then Ley by Judges Guild would be second. The other three sectors by JG were published in 1981. Solomani Rim was published in 1982 making it the sixth Traveller sector published at best.
Didn't I say the topic of Traveller's mapping history was an interesting one? 
If we narrow the question to GDW published OR work that is still canonical, then the Judges Guild materials can be tossed. (Good thing too, I have their Beyond booklet and it is horrific!)
After perusing my collection, I'll say Daryen has it right. The Gvurrdon Sector in AM3: Vargr is most likely the third published and still canonical sector.
Early on GDW let a lot of people into the CT tent. That made very good sense. There were as yet relatively few GDW materials for Traveller and allowing others to publish materials for the game let the amount of support for Traveller grow faster than GDW could handle alone. It was only much later on that the idea of 'OTU Canonicity' arose and certain published materials began to be weeded out of the OTU.
That last bit is the most important. All those materials de-canonnized for the OTU are still good for Traveller. Using a mathematical analogy, the OTU is just a subset of the Traveller set.
Even the fondly remembered DGP work for MT is slowly being overwritten(1) as is GDW's own work for the line. By way of example; TNE's AotR completely trashed DGP's Hiver module for late CT, T4 made many changes, and GURPS and T20 are nibbling around the edges a bit too. T5 will most likely continue this trend.
Anywho... The Gvurrdon Sector is most likely the third published sector for the OTU that is still canonical. Still, I have a hunch that portions of the Dark Nebula Sector predate Gvurrdon. The Keiths were busy fellows and may have published certain Nebula subsectors very early on. Those subsectors were later included in the Dark Nebula as a whole, which was then published after Gvurrdon.
Have fun,
Bill
1 - For the most part because the UWPs in much of the DGP/GDW late CT/MT materials fail to apply LBB6:Scouts correctly. Not that Scouts is correct anyway!
If we narrow the question to GDW published OR work that is still canonical, then the Judges Guild materials can be tossed. (Good thing too, I have their Beyond booklet and it is horrific!)
After perusing my collection, I'll say Daryen has it right. The Gvurrdon Sector in AM3: Vargr is most likely the third published and still canonical sector.
Early on GDW let a lot of people into the CT tent. That made very good sense. There were as yet relatively few GDW materials for Traveller and allowing others to publish materials for the game let the amount of support for Traveller grow faster than GDW could handle alone. It was only much later on that the idea of 'OTU Canonicity' arose and certain published materials began to be weeded out of the OTU.
That last bit is the most important. All those materials de-canonnized for the OTU are still good for Traveller. Using a mathematical analogy, the OTU is just a subset of the Traveller set.
Even the fondly remembered DGP work for MT is slowly being overwritten(1) as is GDW's own work for the line. By way of example; TNE's AotR completely trashed DGP's Hiver module for late CT, T4 made many changes, and GURPS and T20 are nibbling around the edges a bit too. T5 will most likely continue this trend.
Anywho... The Gvurrdon Sector is most likely the third published sector for the OTU that is still canonical. Still, I have a hunch that portions of the Dark Nebula Sector predate Gvurrdon. The Keiths were busy fellows and may have published certain Nebula subsectors very early on. Those subsectors were later included in the Dark Nebula as a whole, which was then published after Gvurrdon.
Have fun,
Bill
1 - For the most part because the UWPs in much of the DGP/GDW late CT/MT materials fail to apply LBB6:Scouts correctly. Not that Scouts is correct anyway!
Randy,
That's a good question, but there is something else odd about Memory Alpha. The MA we have in 2001's Short Adventures Reprint is not the MA of 1984's Origins and GenCon.
The Memory Alpha we have is a reconstruction and that reconstruction includes two maps of Corridor and a list of UWPs. But did the original MA include that material too?
The main plot of MA involves the PCs backtracking their movements across only ten worlds, something that would require a subsector map. However, part of the PCs' background mentions their search for a Trans-Rift Route, something that would require a sector map. We can safely assume that the main plot in the 2001 version of MA is very close to the 1984 version, but what of the that background detail?
Was the search for a Trans-Rift route part of the 1984 handout? If it wasn't, why would an adventure that only uses ten worlds require a map of an entire sector? Are the Corridor materials found in the 2001 Reprint really part of the 1984 handout?
Looking at the materials in the 2001 Reprint doesn't help much. The UWPs are in a format first seen in 1985's Spinward Marches Campaign. One map is in the 'off-set' boxes format of 1984's Atlas of the Imperium. The other is in a format I've never seen; it is in hexes, but has the same limited system information seen in AotI. Making matters worse, an note at the end of the 2001 version's UWP listing says; "The orignal text included data on Deneb and Vland sectors. It has been omitted here."
It's a bit of a puzzle, but I believe AotI holds the answer.
Look at the dates. MA, AM3: Vargr, and AotI were all published in 1984. Therefore, I'd say that our published sector list should go like this:
1979 - Spinward Marches
1982 - Solomani Rim
1984 - All other sectors (thanks to AotI)
All this being said, I still believe that small, still canonical portions of certain sectors were published prior to 1984. The Keiths work in Dark Nebula; i.e. the Caledon subsector, is an example of this.
Have fun,
Bill
Yup, I botched that... JG, not DGP... Bad macro! Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa. (actually, my spellchecker flagged it, and I've got DGP in it....)
And the JG sectors were canonical UNTIL 1984. One of the magazine articles included an apology for doing that...
And Larsen, there are only 5 JG products I've kept... the four sectors and the Character & forms book (title: The Traveller Logbook). (Includes Bk2&4 CG, some expansion to it, and NICE character sheets for Bk1 and 4 characters, plus lots of forms for T&C, ships, etc, plus the T&C table.
Their adventures, well, they range from poor to utter dung, but their non-adventure stuff was a valued purchase.
The sectors presented about the same amount of data as Sups 3 or 10, but also provided rumor charts, and some regional encounter tables. The maps sucked (routes and locations only, not even names), but the booklets are well worth it. and they form a very nice tight quadrant the size of a domain.
And the JG sectors were canonical UNTIL 1984. One of the magazine articles included an apology for doing that...
And Larsen, there are only 5 JG products I've kept... the four sectors and the Character & forms book (title: The Traveller Logbook). (Includes Bk2&4 CG, some expansion to it, and NICE character sheets for Bk1 and 4 characters, plus lots of forms for T&C, ships, etc, plus the T&C table.
Their adventures, well, they range from poor to utter dung, but their non-adventure stuff was a valued purchase.
The sectors presented about the same amount of data as Sups 3 or 10, but also provided rumor charts, and some regional encounter tables. The maps sucked (routes and locations only, not even names), but the booklets are well worth it. and they form a very nice tight quadrant the size of a domain.
Aramis,
That happens to you too! I thought I was the only one...
I've got some too. The Beyond is horrible, but Lee's Guide to Interstellar Adventure is one of my favorite Traveller products. Differing quality of materials within one publisher is an old Traveller tradition!
Have fun,
Bill
daryen
SOC-14 1K
While we are on a "truth-in-advertising" kick, I don't think either of those titles were done by JG. I believe The Beyond was done by Paranoia Press, and I am pretty sure Lee's Guide was done by Gamelords. (While I have never seen Beyond, I have Lee's Guide. I completely agree with your assessment of it.)
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Beyond, and Vanguard reaches, were indeed by Paranoia Press
Looking through my Ley Sector from JG, I figured you might like to know what actually is in it that I like it so...
first, it's copyright 1980...
16 subsector pages with usual paragraph or two of intro before, and a summary data paragraph after the UPP listings.
Encounter Tables:
- Space, near inhabited world
- pirate ship chart, using standard designs with armaments listed
- Imperial encounter chart (small ship universe...)
- Near Small World/Asteroid Belt
In Town Encounter table for filling in the gaps in the Bk1-3 tables.
Planetside encounter table, long, with lots of great ideas.
3 ships designed under Bk2
a worlds index.
Me, I've never seen The Beyond, and the one time I was about to buy Lee's Guide, it was snatched out of my hands by a rather rude fellow...
first, it's copyright 1980...
16 subsector pages with usual paragraph or two of intro before, and a summary data paragraph after the UPP listings.
Encounter Tables:
- Space, near inhabited world
- pirate ship chart, using standard designs with armaments listed
- Imperial encounter chart (small ship universe...)
- Near Small World/Asteroid Belt
In Town Encounter table for filling in the gaps in the Bk1-3 tables.
Planetside encounter table, long, with lots of great ideas.
3 ships designed under Bk2
a worlds index.
Me, I've never seen The Beyond, and the one time I was about to buy Lee's Guide, it was snatched out of my hands by a rather rude fellow...
D'oh!
It's my turn again to smote my receding forehead in embarrassment. Paranoia Press did publish Beyond and Gamelords did publish Lee's. D'oh! D'oh! D'oh!
Will Judges Guild ever forgive me? Aramis' list of the goodies in their sector books sounds very interesting...
By the way, does everyone sort of agree that a publication date of 1984 for Atlas of the Imperium means that every, still canonical sector was published third?
Have fun,
Bill
It's my turn again to smote my receding forehead in embarrassment. Paranoia Press did publish Beyond and Gamelords did publish Lee's. D'oh! D'oh! D'oh!
Will Judges Guild ever forgive me? Aramis' list of the goodies in their sector books sounds very interesting...
By the way, does everyone sort of agree that a publication date of 1984 for Atlas of the Imperium means that every, still canonical sector was published third?
Have fun,
Bill
What about the sectors published by FASA (Old Expanses & Far Frontiers)? To the list of canon sources could we include the Lost Keith supplement of Reaver's Deep published by Cargonaught & Library Data by Sword of the Knight. At best I guess these are para-canon sources.
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