The Army IYTU

[The Oz]

IMTU there really isn't any such thing as an "Imperial Army," just planetary troops in Imperial service for a while.

I say that this restriction (that the Imperium could not own ground troops) was imposed early in the history of the 3rd Imperium as a check on Imperial power. The ban on ground troops also includes planetary defenses, which are always under the control of the local authorities. This gives local governments some (small) feeling of security against a potentially tyrannical Imperial government.

However, in the centuries since the Founding, some planets have established a tradition of always having some of their troops in Imperial service, and these troops have become an equivalent to an "Imperial Army" in how they are recruited, deployed and how they are perceived, but the units are still (technically) owned by their home world and could (in theory) be withdrawn from Imperial service at any time.

And I agree with Sigg's analysis about the skills gained from CT, although I allow Marines to select "Ship's Boat" when they earn the "Vehicle" cascade skill. The "combat vehicles" my Imperial Marines use are really 50 dton assault shuttles pretending to be grav tanks.

 

[mike wightman]

I allow Marines to select "Ship's Boat" when they earn the "Vehicle" cascade skill. The "combat vehicles" my Imperial Marines use are really 50 dton assault shuttles pretending to be grav tanks.

Makes sense.

It's allowed in High Guard isn't it?

 

[The Oz]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Makes sense.

It's allowed in High Guard isn't it?

That's where I got the idea from, yep.

 

[Straybow]

Originally posted by Jon-Paul:
The Army is mainly the force of the planetary government(s). However as a member state of the Imperium it has a feudal obligation to provide a force for the Emperor, its size depends on many things but usualy varies between a Regiment to a full Corp (for very rich or very high population worlds). The average would be a Division...

Divisions are a little small for planetary scale operations.

 

[Uncle Bob]

But if a score of worlds contribute to a twenty division subsector Army, that Army can conduct operations on a planetary scale.

 

[Jame]

This is more of a background/color thing than anything: The marines are more loyal to the Emperor in and of himself than the Army is, but it's also quite loyal to the Imperium. This is because they're seen as projections of the Emperor's personal power (though they're just as loyal to the nobility, unless that nobility is committing treason, because they're seen as having some of the Emperor's power). Meanwhile, the Army is more loyal to the Imperium as a concept and a nation, because it's seen more as defending the Planets and People of the Imperium, and are loyal to the Emperor as the guardian and representative of the Imperium. The Army gets some good, quality people, just as much as the Marines do, but the difference is more of an idealistic one for them.

One thing I've always wondered is why the Marines get Cutlass and Revolver in CT, because those don't really do well against laser-armed opponents...

 

[Straybow]

Originally posted by Uncle Bob:
But if a score of worlds contribute to a twenty division subsector Army, that Army can conduct operations on a planetary scale.

Well, if you don't mind waiting for a year or so while you assemble the army...

 

[mike wightman]

It shouldn't take more than a couple of months if each world that can do so maintains a rapid reaction division, with equipment based in the marshalling yards.
Assuming there is the shipping capacity...

 

[mike wightman]

Now there's a thought.

Local troops use local equipment, built at local TL to Imperial standards.

The Imperial Army should use TL15 gear.

Is TL15 gear made available to the local troops when they are mobilised as "Imperial Army"?

Is this TL15 gear made as simple to operate as possible for people from a lower TL background (lots of computer augmentation to make operation point and click)?

Where is all this TL15 stuff stored? Naval bases, depot systems, on the assault transport ships themselves...?

 

[The Oz]

I don't think TL15 gear is made available to local troops when they are mobilized as "Imperial Army" troopers. Look at FFW or IE; many of the "Imperial Army" formations are at TLs below the current Imperial standard. I think those lower-TL troops are local troops, mobilized for operations away from home.

This does create a logistical nightmare for sector commanders, since different TL troops require different kinds of support and supplies. Perhaps there is some level of standardization imposed by the Imperium, at least for those local troops designated as "deployable." If local "deployable" troops are all required to use the same equipment as the old Imperial standard equipment for that TL, then maybe it would be easier to supply such local troops when they are away from home.

I think I said this about "Colonial Fleets," but I'll say it again; I think it likely that sector-level Imperial war planners spend most of their time dealing with logistical and training issues, making sure that the planetary/subsector forces that can be mobilized are both equipped and trained to mesh well with each other and the real Imperial forces in that sector. These planners do their best to make sure everyone uses the same weapons (at least when at the same TL) and the same doctrine in combat, and they probably also do their best to figure out where the supplies for all these units will come from, and how best to get those supplies to these units when the units are actually deployed.

This level of pre-planning reduces the headaches for the strategic planners, who only have to worry about assigning troops to duties they can handle. Local TL11 troops shouldn't be tasked with stopping (or even slowing down) the Zhodani Consular Guard Corps; the TL11 troops are best used for dealing with the SWC or the Vargr.

 

[Jame]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Where is all this TL15 stuff stored? Naval bases, depot systems, on the assault transport ships themselves...?

That's another thought in and of itself. If the IN has Depots, does the IA have Arsenals?

 

[mike wightman]

Interesting adventure idea: find the location of the subsector Imperial Arsenal and aquire something from it...

 

[far-trader]

If we are to take the adventure in SMC as evidence of practices, apparently:

1 - The Imperial military have their materiel shipped by merchant lines as small as Sector wide. The company in this case being Al Morai. No mention of just what "military" encompases but I'd guess Marines since the one example it described is 30 suits of Battle Dress (also called in one place Combat Armor, a mistake I guess) and 50 FGMP-14s. It does not rule out the possibility of Army being Imperial though.

2 - Such shipping seems to occur both during and outside of hostilities.

3 - The bookeeping on such shipping is either very sloppy OR the Imperial military is very very trusting. The goods are diverted with such simple tactics as reporting them delivered or misrouted. It could be this is just a very short time scam and the prinicples were expecting to scram once they made a few MCr but that's not spelled out in the adventure, in fact it's made to seem that the scam has been going on for some time and the prinicples are well organized and intend to keep the secret and continue to steal shipments.

Of course, drawing conclusions on metagame issues from an adventure with plot holes, whose purpose is of course to torment the PCs before rewarding them, may not be that sound.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

The issue of TLs (as raised by Sigg) is why so many "low tech" items are still in the inventory. And, why ACRs and assault rifles can use the exact same ammo - it's mandated by the Moot to reduce logistical incompatibilities. Also why we don't see fancy rounds (guided bullets, sound-sensitive explosive bullets, etc.) very often.

 

[far-trader]

In MTU the reason for the varied TLs is because the Imperium practices "spreading the wealth" by buying and supporting across the whole TL spectrum. So some of it's forces are low tech (9-12), more are mid tech (13-14) and there are the cream high tech units (15).

As for the books listing items of "low tech" that is explained as the lowest common form of the item. Nothing says that there aren't TL-12 models of the Shotgun, and you can't tell me the Imperial forces use the TL-4 model.

I do agree too that there would be a mandate for Imperial forces to have reduced logistical inventory by decree. But the locals will possibly have very different ideas. For example Imperial Laser Pistols will be identical across charted space and may be effectively the same as the local version but completely incompatible as far as the power pack.

 

[Uncle Bob]

The ACR and Assault Rifles do not use the same ammo. According to Book IV an ACR loaded with slugs uses the Assault Rifle firing tables, but not that the ammo is compatable.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Originally posted by far-trader:
For example Imperial Laser Pistols will be identical across charted space and may be effectively the same as the local version but completely incompatible as far as the power pack.

You mean like different plugs? So you have to carry adapters for each subsector, and a converter when you enter Solomani space?

 

[far-trader]

Different power frequencies, different power levels, and yes even different plugs. So yes, universal adapater plugs and converter/regulators would be a good idea if travelling to Foreign (as in Interstellar Polities) Starports*

* In MTU at least

But finding them is tricky, not much of a market. A clever PC could always make their own of course

Most Interstellar Military types will "acquire" the standard issue and have access to the facilities to maintain same. Non-military backgrounds may be able to buy "civilian" models made to the same standards but these will generally be for the Mercenary market. Buying the local version, made for use only by local troops, may be the same or different. Foreign (again as in Interstellar Polities) models will always be very different. Not just in standards but often even in form. I have a doodle somewhere of what I imagined an Aslan Laser Rifle looks like. Humans would find it awkward to use, and few would even recognize it as a Laser Rifle, until it was too late

I even had an Aslan name for it, but I don't recall what it was. Maybe the sheet will turn up and I'll share.

 

[parmasson]

Just how influential are the S.I. (Standard Imperial) guidelines for military equipment? I am sure that Imperial megacorps sell off lots of surplus equipment and ammo. I wonder if S.I. would have a large impact on the standards of other empires?

 

[far-trader]

S.I. (I.S. in mtu

) does allow the Imperium to have a reasonably cohesive force, and yes being the work is contracted to Megacorps they also sell for profit elsewhere, usually to Mercenary corporations. The Megacorps also handle surplus disposal in mtu and again most of that is scooped up by the (smaller) Mercenary outfits. The capital M in those Mercenary designations signify properly incorporated "Imperial" Mercenaries, not local guns for hire.

Megacorps usually deal in such volume and at such prices that most world governments find it better to produce their own weapons for home use. Home use as in local forces. So unless it's a manufacture world for a Megacorp involved in arms manufacture it's unlikely the locals will have adopted S.I. (or I.S.) entirely.

Of course this is all mtu and applies in similar fashion across the Sollie border.