The End of T20 is only a RUMOR

[oldcolt]

I am not tring to start a war.

I am hoping that Hunter and the gang can clarify the fate of T20.

I just got back from my local game store.
The store manager informed me that he was on a live chat over the web with Marc Miller.

Store mgr told me that Miller was not happy the way T20 has turn out and plans to come out with T5 next year. The Traveller Aids will continue.

Do I have the correct info?

To all parties concern I am a T20 fan who has never played the pervious revisions.

I am asking all in charge to PLEASE continue support for T20. T20 is a great concept and the best SCI-FI d20 RPG out to date.

As I say again, I am not tring to start a FLAME WAR.

I just a concern T20 fan.

 

[Keklas Rekobah]

T20? GURPS?

I have a recurring nightmare in which an immense kitbashed cube, emblazoned with "GURPS + T20 = 4EVR" chases my Fat Trader, while over the radio I hear the following message:

"WE ARE THE FUTURE. YOU ARE THE PAST. PREPARE TO BE ASSIMILATED. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE. THERE ARE NO SAVING THROWS. YOUR OPINIONS ARE IRRELEVANT..."

Then I wake up in a cold sweat feeling as if I'm being irresistably smothered by an overwhelming, uncaring, and faceless entity.

I'll stick to Classic Traveller.

F R E E D O M !

 

[siefertma2]

Whoa there Steely Dan! Just what chat group did this fellow say Marc was speaking on?

 

[T. Foster]

While I can see why Marc Miller might not be entirely happy about T20 stealing some thunder from his own game system (GT is structured like a conversion guide for Traveller to GURPS whereas T20 is structured like a complete, self-sufficient SFRPG -- a replacement for rather than adjunct to Marc's own Traveller rules-system), he did give his blessing to the project, and AFAIK Hunter is still in regular (and friendly) communication with him, so unless/until one or the other of those two steps forward to confirm this I'm going to treat is as pure unsubstantiated rumor, nothing more, and suggest others do the same.

 

[Anthony]

I think that if Marc was having a bad reaction to T20, this is probably not how he'd announce it.

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by T. Foster:
While I can see why Marc Miller might not be entirely happy about T20 stealing some thunder from his own game system (GT is structured like a conversion guide for Traveller to GURPS whereas T20 is structured like a complete, self-sufficient SFRPG -- a replacement for rather than adjunct to Marc's own Traveller rules-system), he did give his blessing to the project, and AFAIK Hunter is still in regular (and friendly) communication with him, so unless/until one or the other of those two steps forward to confirm this I'm going to treat is as pure unsubstantiated rumor, nothing more, and suggest others do the same.

Its more than just that. Marc actually suggested the T20 port *to* Hunter and QLI. How could he possibly be threatened by it? T20 was *his* suggestion! Even the time period was at least partly his idea.

Considering how closely QLI and Marc worked together to make T20 in the first place, I would be totally blown away if there was now some sort of sudden falling out.

And I would argue your first assertion. T20 is fully based on CT. All of its supplements include/will include CT information so that they can be used with non-T20 Traveller.

Besides which, game store owners are notoriously bad sources of information. They get their information so far down the line, that whatever the rumor was supposed to have been usually mutates horribly.

(Disclaimers: I don't know Marc or Hunter. All observations above were read on these boards. I don't own (and don't intend to own) T20, but will buy the Gateway Domain book. IMO. YMMV. ETC.)

 

[T. Foster]

It seems to me (though I may be mistaken) that we're seeing more "why should Marc even bother with T5 when everybody knows T20 is the real T5" type sentiment than we ever saw with GT, which Marc might not have been expecting. Not that I believe this rumor at all, I was just suggesting a way it might possibly contain a smidgen of underlying plausibility.

But I'll be quiet now 'cause I realize I've fallen into just the sort of uniformed speculation and rumor-mongering I was cautioning others against...

 

[clementk]

Originally posted by oldcolt:
I am not tring to start a war.

If I had a nickel for everytime I read a internet post about a store employee saying a game had been canceled or was OOP I'd be rich.

Seriously, most of the time it's 'cos they don't want to bother doing a special order, which I've never understood. I'll pay you $$ for a game and keep your store in business.

And distributors have been known to have items out of stock or print when the game is still available.

Now Marc et al can do what they please, but I'll let them do the talking.

[Edit] added:
Oh and I already have THB, TA#1,3,4 and the novel. So short of buying TA2 and multiple copies, not much I can do to financially support t20 until they release more stuff. I do mention it every time I can at the FLGS where I bought THB from (the staff all played Traveller back in the day).

One suggestion is to contribute to places like rpg.net and enworld.org . I've seen several positive Traveller threads recently at rpg.net dragonsfoot.org might be another good place, esp. for CT vs. every other version wars.

Casey

 

[Borodin]

Originally posted by T. Foster:
It seems to me (though I may be mistaken) that we're seeing more "why should Marc even bother with T5 when everybody knows T20 is the real T5" type sentiment than we ever saw with GT

That's what I've been wondering. Seems to me that another Traveller system now would do more harm than good. I'm fairly new here, but I can already tell you will never please a large percentage of the Traveller community with one single product. What's to be gained by spreading the potential customer base even thinner by introducing another system since many of the longer term fans will stick to their old version and we T20 converts aren't liable to pick up a new system since we came on BECAUSE of the d20 compatibility. So now they want to introduce a FIFTH version?!?! (Well, sixth, really, if you count T20.) Seems like a questionable idea to me personally. It would make supplements containing game material all that much harder to fly. IMHO of course.

 

[Bruce]

Just to put all this to rest.

MArc is happy with T20.

Hunter and Myself were the ones who proposed the idea of a D20 version of Traveller to MArc.

Marc said go for it.

So we did, the game is sold out. We are printing a second print run of it. We already have pre-orders for the THB.

So, T20 is being supported, MArc likes it, we like it. And it seems, when you sell out 5k copies of the a, what people thought was a 'pricey' book, in four months, that someone ELSE out there likes it.

So there you are...

Bruce Runnels
The Man Behind the Curtain

 

[eclipse]

Originally posted by Borodin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by T. Foster:
It seems to me (though I may be mistaken) that we're seeing more "why should Marc even bother with T5 when everybody knows T20 is the real T5" type sentiment than we ever saw with GT

That's what I've been wondering. Seems to me that another Traveller system now would do more harm than good. I'm fairly new here, but I can already tell you will never please a large percentage of the Traveller community with one single product. What's to be gained by spreading the potential customer base even thinner by introducing another system since many of the longer term fans will stick to their old version and we T20 converts aren't liable to pick up a new system since we came on BECAUSE of the d20 compatibility. So now they want to introduce a FIFTH version?!?! (Well, sixth, really, if you count T20.) Seems like a questionable idea to me personally. It would make supplements containing game material all that much harder to fly. IMHO of course. </font>[/QUOTE]Given that T20 has a very CT feel (as compared to TNE & GURPS:T) and that T5 would be CT++, the two could feed each other rather than directly competing. Adventures written for one would port easily to the other. QLI is already putting CT stats in some it's TA series (TA#1 for example), when T5 comes out, I wouldn't be surprised to see TA#1-A, that would include T5 stats.

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by Bruce:
Hunter and Myself were the ones who proposed the idea of a D20 version of Traveller to MArc.

Marc said go for it.

I apologize for stating that incorrectly.

I thought I had remembered reading that Hunter had planned on using the JG license to do more CT supplements, but that T20 came up.

Sorry I got the idea originator wrong. No disrespect was intended.

 

[kafka47]

I think Marc is happy whenever Traveller grows. Afterall, Traveller essentially is his baby, so while your shop owner may have heard something about T4, instead of T20 or T5. T20 is doing well because of the wise stewardship of those on top of this organization.

Plus, I don't think it is also Marc's style to reject any form of Traveller, no matter how flawed. He will admit to mistakes but will always seem to find a way for remeding a situation. As for any end of T20, 2004 will be a decisive year, as by that time there will be enough T20 products to see if they actually do make an impact on market...or whether they will fliter away into obscurity. So publish or perish, especially in this marketplace of SFRPGs.

I think the right strategy is to go with the combination of electronic and paper, much as Quicklink has already done. They just need to get more dead trees out there to really begin to establish a presence and overtake things like DragonStar and investigate options for partnering, say with HDI or other natural partners.

 

[hunter]

ROFLMAO!

Me thinks someone is either pulling your leg or they have been talking to someone posing as Marc.

Just for grins, I fired a copy of this original post to Marc for his comments. I'll post them here when I get a response.

Hunter

 

[sandman]

Either a tad late or very very very early for an April Fool

 

[hunter]

Marc's Comments on this rumor:

---------------------------------

I (Marc Miller) haven't had a live chat with anyone, specially about T20, which I like a lot (and a lot of people like a lot). Some one was pranking that store owner.


Marc Miller
Heartland Publishing Services
Far Future Enterprises

----------------------------------

Hunter

 

[Bruce]

Daryen,

No offense taken. *grin*

Like i said, setting the record straight on this one.

Bruce
The Man Behind the Curtain

 

[plop101]

Peering out from the bomb shelter...

pc1 Flamewar?

pc2 Doesn't look like it. Go back to sleep.

pc1 Ok.

pc1, later: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[oldcolt]

I am very sorry.

With talk of T5 rumors and my poor source, I became very concern that T20 was going to end.

Now after hearing from Hunter and Marc I realize that it was a rumor, joke or wrong info.

I ask this community to please forgive me.

To Hunter I am going to change the title of this post. Please fill free to delete this post. I do not want to cause any financial harm to FFE.

 

[hunter]

Originally posted by oldcolt:
I am very sorry.

With talk of T5 rumors and my poor source, I became very concern that T20 was going to end.

Now after hearing from Hunter and Marc I realize that it was a rumor, joke or wrong info.

I ask this community to please forgive me.

To Hunter I am going to change the title of this post. Please fill free to delete this post. I do not want to cause any financial harm to FFE.

Nah, not a problem. You came to the right place to ask. This kinda stuff pops up every once in a while.

Hunter