(The FFW as a Vehicle for) Canon Facts

[nobby-w]

Just so you know, here's my purpose:

To assemble an index of canon, starting with primary and available sources, for those who wish to write for Traveller.

That's quite an ambitious task, although achievable in principle. :CoW:

So, I have a question: Given that this would involve at best months of work and more likely years, and a lot of money spent trolling through Ebay to find out-of-print material, what do you hope to gain by doing this?

My counter argument is:

• Canon is overrated. Hobbyists and individual referees are quite free to do what ever they want in their campaigns, and folks who do for-profit publishing can do their own research. Frankly, buying old Traveller stuff on ebay and reading through it is much more fun anyway.
• Canon is an attractive nuisance for munchkins. You all know That guy from some group. Do you really want to publish a rules-lawyering guide for these folks - because that is what your index will get used for.

Make 'em do their own research. Make 'em play a few campaigns and spend months or years collecting material. Make 'em hunt down and spend $50 on some obscure Fasa or Cargonaut press publication to check out the minutae of the published material on the Reaver's Deep.

It sounds like a public service, but it's a lot of work that will only get used for its intended purpose by a handful of people. It's mostly going to be used by munchkins of one sort or another in attempts to bully the Referee into letting them min/max the character by saying 'in this book here it says ...'

Worse yet, by getting used to look up material in forum arguments ...

 

[kilemall]

That's quite an ambitious task, although achievable in principle. :CoW:

So, I have a question: Given that this would involve at best months of work and more likely years, and a lot of money spent trolling through Ebay to find out-of-print material, what do you hope to gain by doing this?

My counter argument is:

• Canon is overrated. Hobbyists and individual referees are quite free to do what ever they want in their campaigns, and folks who do for-profit publishing can do their own research. Frankly, buying old Traveller stuff on ebay and reading through it is much more fun anyway.
• Canon is an attractive nuisance for munchkins. You all know That guy from some group. Do you really want to publish a rules-lawyering guide for these folks - because that is what your index will get used for.

Make 'em do their own research. Make 'em play a few campaigns and spend months or years collecting material. Make 'em hunt down and spend $50 on some obscure Fasa or Cargonaut press publication to check out the minutae of the published material on the Reaver's Deep.

It sounds like a public service, but it's a lot of work that will probably only get used for its intended purpose by a handful of people, mostly being used by munchkins of one sort or another in attempts to bully the Referee into letting them min/max the character by saying 'in this book here it says ...'

Worse yet, by getting used to look up material in forum arguments ...

Or maybe win all canon arguments for all time.

Or end the Canon Wars.

 

[nobby-w]

Or maybe win all canon arguments for all time.

Well, I wasn't going to state that explicitly, but now you mention it -

Or end the Canon Wars.

But that would spoil all the fun!

Having said that, I'm a firm believer in 'Canon is for publishers' and I really find forum arguments about the minutae of Canon to be offputting. They also have tendency to crowd out more interesting discussions. Let the publishers do their own research. Besides, there are plenty of folks here could actually answer questions along the lines of 'what books have stuff that touches on xyz?' - and answer questions about OTU canon in their own right.

I almost make a policy of not using any published canon as-is. MTU is set around the fall of the 2I, in part because there is very little published material set in this era.

 

[kilemall]

Well, I wasn't going to state that explicitly, but now you mention it -


But that would spoil all the fun!

Having said that, I'm a firm believer in 'Canon is for publishers' and I really find forum arguments about the minutae of Canon to be offputting. They also have tendency to crowd out more interesting discussions. Let the publishers do their own research. Besides, there are plenty of folks here could actually answer questions along the lines of 'what books have stuff that touches on xyz?' - and answer questions about OTU canon in their own right.

I almost make a policy of not using any published canon as-is. MTU is set around the fall of the 2I, in part because there is very little published material set in this era.

 

[Timerover51]

Just so you know, here's my purpose:

To assemble an index of canon, starting with primary and available sources, for those who wish to write for Traveller.

Then how about you start with the understanding that there are several different canons, depending on the edition of the rules someone is using and go from there.

Someone who is writing based on the LBB is not going to have any interest in the Rebellion or the Virus or Traveller 5.

Or is this a case of the only approved material must be based on Traveller 5, and no other outside material using another edition is permitted?

Or the only two systems that can have material written are Mongoose Traveller, and based on a communication from Paul Elliot, that is getting a lot more difficult, and Traveller 5?

 

[whartung]

Then how about you start with the understanding that there are several different canons, depending on the edition of the rules someone is using and go from there.

Someone who is writing based on the LBB is not going to have any interest in the Rebellion or the Virus or Traveller 5.

But that's not really quite the case, is it.

MOST canon is historical, societal, and political. The tech kind of drifts about (TNE being a noted culprit here), but not really gravely. And none of it grossly affects the history. They are more manifestations of the mechanics of the underlying system than anything else.

Because CT -> MT -> TNE are really a "continuum" of canon. A single timeline of the Imperium that moved forward and filled out. CT and MT and TNE are not independent of each other. A CT player may be interested in the Rebellion as that's where the story goes.

Wasn't T4 mostly in the past? So, in that light, I think it's T4 -> CT -> MT -> TNE.

And add in T5, it's more like:

T4 ---> CT -> MT --> TNE -----> T5, with the arrows poorly suggesting the gaps in time between the editions.

GT sent us in to the "multiverse". I have no idea what TU MgT represents, or T20, or THero, etc.

Are some things retconned as they're expanded? Absolutely. But I would argue that T5's Working Theory of Jump Space (how it works, etc.) should project all the way throughout the timelines, back to CT, back to T4, as it describes a fundamental property of the universe. Just because there may be dissension on size of a jump drive doesn't change it's fundamental operations.

A gauss rifle is not canon, the ways and hows people in the Imperium USED a gauss rifle, and how those stories are recorded and captured, ARE canon. A gauss rifle is just a stick with attributes.

So, simply, save for the splinters of GT and others that have forked the timeline, as a general guide, yes, there IS a single, continuous canon.

 

[Timerover51]

But that's not really quite the case, is it.

MOST canon is historical, societal, and political. The tech kind of drifts about (TNE being a noted culprit here), but not really gravely. And none of it grossly affects the history. They are more manifestations of the mechanics of the underlying system than anything else.

Because CT -> MT -> TNE are really a "continuum" of canon. A single timeline of the Imperium that moved forward and filled out. CT and MT and TNE are not independent of each other. A CT player may be interested in the Rebellion as that's where the story goes.

Wasn't T4 mostly in the past? So, in that light, I think it's T4 -> CT -> MT -> TNE.

And add in T5, it's more like:

T4 ---> CT -> MT --> TNE -----> T5, with the arrows poorly suggesting the gaps in time between the editions.

GT sent us in to the "multiverse". I have no idea what TU MgT represents, or T20, or THero, etc.

Are some things retconned as they're expanded? Absolutely. But I would argue that T5's Working Theory of Jump Space (how it works, etc.) should project all the way throughout the timelines, back to CT, back to T4, as it describes a fundamental property of the universe. Just because there may be dissension on size of a jump drive doesn't change it's fundamental operations.

A gauss rifle is not canon, the ways and hows people in the Imperium USED a gauss rifle, and how those stories are recorded and captured, ARE canon. A gauss rifle is just a stick with attributes.

So, simply, save for the splinters of GT and others that have forked the timeline, as a general guide, yes, there IS a single, continuous canon.

I repeat, for someone using just the LBB or Starter Traveller or The Traveller Book, the Rebellion and Virus are totally, utterly meaningless.

As for T4, I do have that rule book somewhere in my basement, and I suspect that it will stay there, somewhere.

Yes, I have the 759 pages or T5. Will I use it, very to highly unlikely. As for Jump Space, based on another thread, where if a Jump Drive passes within 100 diameters of any gravity field, it is precipitated out of Jump, how well mapped out are all of the star systems Oort Clouds with respect to possible Jump Routes to anywhere? For that matter, how well mapped out are the asteroid belts in a system where the jumping ship has to get through them?

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

*WHOOP-WHOOP*

:nonono:
[m;]Hey now! Let's watch the edition trolling and concentrate on the purpose of the OP: a COMPLETE canon for ALL writers![/m;]

If you chose not to use portions of the Whole Canon, that is fine but Timerover you are not even the only writer of Traveller products so let's not be a dick about other peoples' needs or desires. This isn't about you or me as a good friend likes to remind me when I start down a similar path.

EDIT And now that I am looking back a ways, looks like a couple other people need to pay attention. Just so as we are clear, this goes for everybody! Got it?

Settle down, please. Contributions are welcome, ranting about your wants and needs is disruptive. The later might also bring Infractions so keep a watch on it.

*to be read in Robocop voice*
Thank you for your cooperation Citizens.

 

[nobby-w]

Do you mind if I bring a cannon to the canon war?

Hm.

1. Light blue touch paper
2. Stand back.

 

[Condottiere]

 

[aramis]

Then how about you start with the understanding that there are several different canons, depending on the edition of the rules someone is using and go from there.

Someone who is writing based on the LBB is not going to have any interest in the Rebellion or the Virus or Traveller 5.

Someone writing for CT isn't allowed to monetize it. So, generally, such people don't go through "FFE approvals" and so can diverge from canon.

Only people writing for MGT or T5 can monetize, and there is the key... and what binds them to the OTU.

TR is a license-holder.

And Marc generally holds "it's all canon, but some is wrong" approach.

 

[maksimsmelchak]

:nonono:
[m;]Hey now! Let's watch the edition trolling and concentrate on the purpose of the OP: a COMPLETE canon for ALL writers! [/m;]

*** What is OP? ***

We have serious alphabet soup disease here.

100% agreed about a COMPLETE canon for ALL writers!

Shabbat Shalom,
M.

 

[kilemall]

Someone writing for CT isn't allowed to monetize it. So, generally, such people don't go through "FFE approvals" and so can diverge from canon.

Only people writing for MGT or T5 can monetize, and there is the key... and what binds them to the OTU.

TR is a license-holder.

And Marc generally holds "it's all canon, but some is wrong" approach.

Whoa.

Wait.

So if I sought a license for say my 'book o' guns', I would have to write it with the OTU in mind, not going to my own setting, and I could not express the weapons in all previous version stats?

 

[whulorigan]

*** What is OP? ***

We have serious alphabet soup disease here.

OP = Original Post (i.e. Thread-starter).

 

[pendragonman]

Whoa.

Wait.

So if I sought a license for say my 'book o' guns', I would have to write it with the OTU in mind, not going to my own setting, and I could not express the weapons in all previous version stats?

If it is for your own TU, and you aren't trying to profit from it, you don't need a license.

If you are making "Big Fred's Big Book of Guns" for a generic setting, it doesn't have to be for the OTU, but lacking an actual setting connection will slow your sales.

 

[Timerover51]

Someone writing for CT isn't allowed to monetize it. So, generally, such people don't go through "FFE approvals" and so can diverge from canon.

Only people writing for MGT or T5 can monetize, and there is the key... and what binds them to the OTU.

TR is a license-holder.

And Marc generally holds "it's all canon, but some is wrong" approach.

Then what precisely is the setting for T5? Aside from the rules, and one book, what is there?

 

[kilemall]

If it is for your own TU, and you aren't trying to profit from it, you don't need a license.

If you are making "Big Fred's Big Book of Guns" for a generic setting, it doesn't have to be for the OTU, but lacking an actual setting connection will slow your sales.

I am talking about profiting from the writing but staying away from the OTU setting.

To me it's a wider appeal making 'backwards compatible' material- most of it is, but you get into some of the stat heavy hardware and a T5 gun doesn't straight up convert to a MgT gun or CT range/armor mods.

 

[nobby-w]

Someone writing for CT isn't allowed to monetize it. So, generally, such people don't go through "FFE approvals" and so can diverge from canon.

I'm sure this has been asked before, but my google-fu fails me and the Fair use document on the FFE website isn't explicit about it.

Does advertising revenue on a site publishing material for pre Mongoose/T5 editions count as monetizing?

 

[aramis]

Then what precisely is the setting for T5? Aside from the rules, and one book, what is there?

All CT, MT, TE, T4, T20, GT, and MGT material that touches on the OTU.

 

[aramis]

If it is for your own TU, and you aren't trying to profit from it, you don't need a license.

Not true. At least not true in the US nor UK.

If it's not shared outside your home group, you don't.
If you share it, technically, it does need a license.

If you are making "Big Fred's Big Book of Guns" for a generic setting, it doesn't have to be for the OTU, but lacking an actual setting connection will slow your sales.

If it claims Traveller compatibility, it needs a license. Period.

The Fair Use Provision is a free license (as in Free beer) that allows sharing materials for any traveller edition, provided it's not monetized.

The OGL allows using MGT or T20 rules in part, but not indicating compatibility. In fact, it prohibits such UNLESS a separate license for that is in force.

The Traveller Logo License allows indicating compatibility with MGT. But it's expired.

The TAS license allows using MGT2e rules, and indicating compatibility, but severely limits sales potential and it is Not free.