(The FFW as a Vehicle for) Canon Facts

[aramis]

Mongoose bought an exclusive license; T5 was specifically exempted from that, as Mongoose was supposed to publish it, and Marc's reprints & PDFs of old systems as well; they (apparently) amicably let Marc self print when they decided not to print T5.

 

[robject]

I think the main reason for licensing is control over property.

In a sense, I understand the business logic I suspect is behind it- need setting material to generate add-on products and sell something new after the core book(s), or entice people interested in the setting to try the system, or provide new value for people buying the system who would ignore the setting anyway.

I think this is also a prominent reason for licenses.

Not to mention avoiding screeching conflicts over already published material that drive away sales or interest in the game brand, which means quite enough to review material for current editions, something else to look over everything for every possible rules/setting combination.

I think this is not a reason for licenses. It's perfectly legal to publish self-contradictory material, for example. It may not be reasonable or smart, but a publisher could probably get away with some of this in the interest of optimizing revenue (yes, publishers are businesses, regardless of size).

But for those of us who might want to write for X setting with Y rules, particularly ATU ones where it might go from RPG to novel and/or TV show ala The Expanse, these licenses are very troubling and sticky.

I'm sure getting a license to make money off of a TV show is indeed difficult.

It also makes doing something like licensing Dune or some other classic sci-fi and producing a sourcebook a miserable proposition, as the double whammy of an estate license AND the game license pound of flesh

Sure, Dune is somebody's property too.

I note that it's not difficult at all to get a license from Marc to sell a Traveller5 thing if you can reasonably prove that you will actually produce the thing. Ask Greg Lee and Craig Glesner. To a lesser degree, ask me: I've herded cats and put together two issues of Imperiallines*, which is a nice lightweight way to get your ideas into Traveller without needing a license.



* It's not dead, it's just pining for the fjords.

 

[robject]

Fifth Frontier War as a Vehicle for Canon

(Canon = fact about the OTU specifically)

So now consider one major element of the setting: the Fifth Frontier War. GDW used it to draw together a lot of disparate elements of the OTU.

On role-playing levels, the movement of marine units across the Marches, as well as the role of mercenary tickets and unit composition (Broadsword). Social stratification comes out strongly with nobility running the navies -- but people are still clearly human.

The War strongly underscored the remoteness of authority, speed of jump, starports as "deep water" ports, explicit feudalism (and even piracy)... these things empower and require the players to make their own decisions and act.

On a higher conceptual level, the war touched on tradewar, communication routes (including escorts and drop tanks), skulking by Zhodani Patrol Frigates in BT and McClellan Factors space. High Guard as a concept underscores the benefits and risks of wilderness refueling. The Scout service plays a part of intelligence-gathering in the war.

It dealt with Zhodani, Vargr, Swordies, and Darrians, and (perhaps) touched on the Droyne. The War itemizes military starships, vehicles, and equipment. The War deals with the interactions between worlds and the Imperium. The War touches on megacorporate deal-making, and their relationship with the Imperial Navy.

 

[Timerover51]

Fifth Frontier War as a Vehicle for Canon

(Canon = fact about the OTU specifically)

So now consider one major element of the setting: the Fifth Frontier War. GDW used it to draw together a lot of disparate elements of the OTU.

On role-playing levels, the movement of marine units across the Marches, as well as the role of mercenary tickets and unit composition (Broadsword). Social stratification comes out strongly with nobility running the navies -- but people are still clearly human.

The War strongly underscored the remoteness of authority, speed of jump, starports as "deep water" ports, explicit feudalism (and even piracy)... these things empower and require the players to make their own decisions and act.

On a higher conceptual level, the war touched on tradewar, communication routes (including escorts and drop tanks), skulking by Zhodani Patrol Frigates in BT and McClellan Factors space. High Guard as a concept underscores the benefits and risks of wilderness refueling. The Scout service plays a part of intelligence-gathering in the war.

It dealt with Zhodani, Vargr, Swordies, and Darrians, and (perhaps) touched on the Droyne. The War itemizes military starships, vehicles, and equipment. The War deals with the interactions between worlds and the Imperium. The War touches on megacorporate deal-making, and their relationship with the Imperial Navy.

Having said all of that, the Fifth Frontier War took place 700 years ago with respect to T5. Following it, there was the Rebellion and Virus, which I imagine thoroughly destroyed most of the megacorporations.

From the Traveller Wiki:

Traveller The New Era (1992-1995) was published by Game Designers' Workshop. The game mechanics were changed to Game Designers' Workshop's standardized rules system which had originally appeared in the second edition of Twilight: 2000. It introduced the Virus and described the former area of the Third Imperium after interstellar society had completely collapsed. The game is often referred to as "TNE".

The primary campaign setting was in the Reformation Coalition, though secondary settings included the Regency (former Domain of Deneb) and pocket empires were beginning to see support before GDW closed its doors. The game typically revolved around re-contact of the former Imperial planets after the effects of many years of no interstellar trade. Most worlds were massive graveyards with most valuables already taken by looters, and those worlds which survived tended to be low tech and very technophobic and xenophobic. TEDs - technologically elevated dictators - were a common adversary, consisting of a ruling elite which had access to a small cache of high tech weaponry with which they exercised control over a low tech population, but there were many variations on the theme, and many other possibilities existed; the Referee had a great deal of choice available for his game.

Emphasis Added.

By the way, is the Virus still around in T5. If not, how was it disposed of? I seem to remember this black void on the former Imperium map where Capitol used to be?

Edit Note: How does this apply to those in the forum who do not own a copy of Fifth Frontier War, as it did come out in 1981 (corrected date from 1993, which was The New Era), a matter of 35 years ago?

 

[mike wightman]

FFW was 1981.

It's probably worth pointing out that Marc's novel has changed the underlying assumptions of the 3I (it was/is a transhumanist setting all along) and if he manages to continue the novel series it will be interesting to see how he deals with the events that other authors actually wrote.

DGP made up an awful lot of MT - some of which MWM has declared non-canonical -
MWM had left GDW by the time TNE was released, and finally the entire 1248 story was MJD.

I wonder if Marc's novels will re-image/retcon some of these events?

 

[Timerover51]

FFW was 1981.

It's probably worth pointing out that Marc's novel has changed the underlying assumptions of the 3I (it was/is a transhumanist setting all along) and if he manages to continue the novel series it will be interesting to see how he deals with the events that other authors actually wrote.

DGP made up an awful lot of MT - some of which MWM has declared non-canonical -
MWM had left GDW by the time TNE was released, and finally the entire 1248 story was MJD.

I wonder if Marc's novels will re-image/retcon some of these events?

Okay, then is the Rebellion and Virus and The New Era still part of canon or not? All of those very thoroughly blew up the Imperium, yet the map in T5 reflects a pre-Rebellion and no Virus Imperium.

By the way, when the Imperium went into Rebellion and then the Virus, what were the Solomani doing while the Imperium was self-destructing? I would presume that the Solomani were busily tossing the Imperium out of Solomani space, and proceeding on their own. They had plenty of room between them and the Virus as well.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

THE IMPORTANT ERAS IN HISTORY
Era Players typical date Note
Grandfather’s Children Droyne 300,000 BCE
The False Dawn Kursae 200,000 BCE
Early Ziru Sirka Vilani 9000 BCE
Consolidation Wars Vilani, Suerrat 5000 BCE
First Contact Terrans, Vilani 2100 CE
The Interstellar Wars Terrans, Vilani 2200 CE
The Rule of Man Terrans, Vilani 2500 CE
The Long Night - - 3500 CE
Early Imperium Syleans 0 IC 4
Aslan Border Wars Aslan, Imperial 300 IC
Civil War Imperial 600 IC
Psionic Suppressions Imperial, Zhodani 880 IC
Solomani Rim War Imperial, Solomani 990 IC
The Golden Age Imperial 1000 IC 1
The Rebellion Imperial 1116 IC 2
The Virus Era - 1130 IC 3
The New Era - 1200 IC 3
The New New Era Imperial 1248 IC
The Far Far Future - 1902 IC 5

- Traveller5 Core Rules pg. 17

I suppose the publishers of Traveller5 thinks so. Now who is that again?

 

[Timerover51]

FFW was 1981.

Thank you for pointing out the incorrect data.

DGP made up an awful lot of MT - some of which MWM has declared non-canonical -
MWM had left GDW by the time TNE was released, and finally the entire 1248 story was MJD.

Then what of MegaTraveller is non-canonical and what is not? As has been pointed out, the Rebellion and Virus and New Era all appear in the background for Traveller 5. If those are retained, how does an Imperium even exist, except by fiat?

Quotes from the Wiki:

The Third Imperium fell in a frenzy of self-destruction unmatched in history. As many as 10 trillion deaths resulted from the Imperial Civil War and the artificially intelligent virus. . . .

The Imperium is dead, long live the New Era.

 

[MJD]

All I know on the subject is that 1248 was run by Marc and agreed.

So yes, It's my creation but it was agreed by Marc.

I still have the original '1276' notes I pitched way back when.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

By the way, when the Imperium went into Rebellion and then the Virus, what were the Solomani doing while the Imperium was self-destructing? I would presume that the Solomani were busily tossing the Imperium out of Solomani space, and proceeding on their own. They had plenty of room between them and the Virus as well.

The fate of the Solomani is is detailed in the 1248 books. Basically, they absorb more territory, peaceniks take over the government, claim to achieve their military goals, sign a treaty with Margaret 1129. They then start "border incidents" with the Hivers in preparation for invasion ?!?
The Virus comes and saves the Solomani from destruction by the Hivers.
Then the Confederation falls, not from Virus, but the Sauron Supermen in 1138.
By 1248 there are two groups of "Solomani": The new Terran Confederation which is friendly to non-humans centered on Terra, and the new Rule of Man in Neworld Sectotr which doubled down supremacy.

Something like that.

 

[Timerover51]

The fate of the Solomani is is detailed in the 1248 books. Basically, they absorb more territory, peaceniks take over the government, claim to achieve their military goals, sign a treaty with Margaret 1129. They then start "border incidents" with the Hivers in preparation for invasion ?!?
The Virus comes and saves the Solomani from destruction by the Hivers.
Then the Confederation falls, not from Virus, but the Sauron Supermen in 1138.
By 1248 there are two groups of "Solomani": The new Terran Confederation which is friendly to non-humans centered on Terra, and the new Rule of Man in Neworld Sectotr which doubled down supremacy.

Something like that.

What rule set is covered by the "1248" books?

Where does all of this appear?

Is anyone who might consider writing for T5 supposed to know all of this?

 

[whulorigan]

What rule set is covered by the "1248" books?

Where does all of this appear?

Is anyone who might consider writing for T5 supposed to know all of this?

The 1248 Books were published as "setting-only" (i.e. it was "rules agnostic").

They are on the TNE-CDROMs from FFE.

 

[aramis]

Okay, then is the Rebellion and Virus and The New Era still part of canon or not? All of those very thoroughly blew up the Imperium, yet the map in T5 reflects a pre-Rebellion and no Virus Imperium.

By the way, when the Imperium went into Rebellion and then the Virus, what were the Solomani doing while the Imperium was self-destructing? I would presume that the Solomani were busily tossing the Imperium out of Solomani space, and proceeding on their own. They had plenty of room between them and the Virus as well.

Both Rebellion and Virus are part of the T5 setting. As are TNE's Empress Wave and Black Curtain.

The only MT I've seen specifically mentioned as non-canon are the Primordials and Sparklers.

 

[Timerover51]

Empress Wave?

Black Curtain?

 

[Nathan Brazil]

timerover51, on the idea of 1248 to 1902.
When 1248 left off, there were many situations:

There is a nascent 4th Imperium run by Avery, direct "descendant" of Strephon
There are Cyms ("civilized sane Virus") in the 4th Imperium and other states
The Regency fell apart and is now a bunch of smaller states
The Empress Wave is still around advancing around light speed rimward
The Black Curtain was revealed to be an uploaded viral Lucan, who may or may not still be in charge, because...
The K'kree have gone cyber and allied with Virus and are actively trying to kill all meat eaters and supporters of meat eaters, because Lucan likes his...subjects

Since 1248 is canon (as indicated in the T5 rulebook), some or all of these items are of significance. Some explanation is required whether kept or not. Even after 700 years.

 

[Timerover51]

timerover51, on the idea of 1248 to 1902.
When 1248 left off, there were many situations:

There is a nascent 4th Imperium run by Avery, direct "descendant" of Strephon
There are Cyms ("civilized sane Virus") in the 4th Imperium and other states
The Regency fell apart and is now a bunch of smaller states
The Empress Wave is still around advancing around light speed rimward
The Black Curtain was revealed to be an uploaded viral Lucan, who may or may not still be in charge, because...
The K'kree have gone cyber and allied with Virus and are actively trying to kill all meat eaters and supporters of meat eaters, because Lucan likes his...subjects

Since 1248 is canon (as indicated in the T5 rulebook), some or all of these items are of significance. Some explanation is required whether kept or not. Even after 700 years.

Again, what is the "Empress Wave"?

As for the rest, I would rather not know.

 

[aramis]

Empress Wave?

Black Curtain?

Empress wave is a nasty psionic event ... an expanding shell that drives the young to insanity, disrupting civilization in its wake.

The stronger the psionic potential, the worse the effect, even if untrained.

 

[GypsyComet]

The Empress Wave is still around advancing around light speed rimward

MGT Zhodani bumps up the speed to roughly 3x lightspeed. It crosses a map hex per year, approximately. It still hits Imperial space at the same point (around 1203) but will grind its way across all of Charted Space in 300 years or so, instead of taking the better part of a thousand years to reach Terra.

Between it and Virus, a lot of the light of civilization in Charted Space is snuffed out. As bad as Imperial space gets hit, though, the math points to a belt through Vargr and Zhodani space that was hammered by both at the same time...

 

[mike wightman]

To quote Aramis:

Citing Mongoose rules in support of the OTU is a BAD IDEA... many things are not congruent with "real editions"...

I do not like the MgT changes to the Empress Wave all that much, but then I'm not that fond of the 1248 explanation of its causation either.

IMTU I stick with Dave Nilsen's explanation of what it is and the effects it has, while for cause I have my own rationalisation.

I'll be interested to see what Marc does with it since it is already hinted at in AotI.

My solution - make it a result of T5's reality manipulation technology, it is literally the manifestation in the universe of the conflict between the near singulariy level races.

It could be used to remove anything from the OTU MWM wants rid of written by other authors.

 

[Reban]

Again, what is the "Empress Wave"?

As for the rest, I would rather not know.

The Wiki is always a good place to quickly educate ones self about Traveller terms, although its not to be trusted for its canonical-ness.

http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Empress_Wave

The Empress Wave is accepted as a canonical event/process which in time will come to affect all of charted space. It will have an interesting effect, reducing the total population, and affecting people on a psionic level in its wake, causing temporary havoc as it passes, and triggering preparations ahead of it.

Think of it as a Spanish Flu/Black Death/Zombie Apocalypse/Great Depression level setting-altering event. There have been three similar setting altering events in the OTU: The Long Night, Rebellion, and Virus.

If you'd rather not know about the background of the OTU then you simply use this quote and write an ATU.