The path least traveller-ed

[kilemall]

I'm liking the 'roll die- pick number result from all eligible tables' system I read on this forum, seems like a really good system that gets 'make life choices based on options at the time' easy, player is not in position to min/max but doesn't feel so hopeless to shape the character either.

Also, I allow them to add to lower then 7 stats, 1d6 for every 2 lower then 7 stat. Avoids dealing with the STR 3/INT 3 guy, and scout or ingame suicide, saves us all time and grief.

Add in my version of the Advanced Education (INT 8+) tables, and I couldn't be happier with CT/COTI gen.

 

[whulorigan]

Also, I allow them to add to lower then 7 stats, 1d6 for every 2 lower then 7 stat. Avoids dealing with the STR 3/INT 3 guy, and scout or ingame suicide, saves us all time and grief.

Another simple house-rule is to roll stats as normal and do normal CharGen, but when the CharGen process is finished, any stat-score that is still lower than 5 is adjusted up to 5.

 

[atpollard]

Just throwing out a question ...
Other than STR/DEX/CON used for damage in Combat (and basic weapon selection), does any one else find they almost have to work hard at making INT/EDU/SOC matter in the game?

They really are infrequently used in basic Game Mechanics of CT (or I just miss seeing the obvious applications). During Chargen, a Skill-1 is much better than a +1 ability (imo).

Anyone found the experience very different?

 

[flykiller]

making INT/EDU/SOC matter in the game

this thread addresses making social standing relevant to a game.

imtu int and edu are the basis for skill points used to acquire skills. higher int and/or edu, more skills.

using straight ct, int and edu are quite relevant by themselves. edu for chance of knowing critical information, int for chance of noticing critical evidence, etc. not sure why they would be difficult to apply.

 

[atpollard]

using straight ct, int and edu are quite relevant by themselves. edu for chance of knowing critical information, int for chance of noticing critical evidence, etc. not sure why they would be difficult to apply.

Not 'difficult to apply'. It was more that I don't remember them coming into much demand during the published adventures. I tend to find that having INT/EDU/SOC of 3/3/3 is really more of an overwhelming psychological handicap for most players than it would be an actual Game Mechanic handicap in the rules as written.

Yeah, I can't have more than 6 skills. Most 2 term characters will not have more than 6 skills anyway.

I just don't remember that many calls for an EDU check in a published adventure.

Roleplaying, I found Streetwise-1 more useful than high EDU.
Just seeing if other people found different results in their groups.

 

[kilemall]

Coming back to CT I had the same issues Pollard, mostly it bothered me that most people would never roll against Personal Development tables and really the character could be boiled down to +1 this and -1 that, no fine effects on the difference between 6 and 8.

So I went over every stat, jazzed them up, and redid the task system where stats are front and center. I won't repost them yet again here, you can read directly on my general IMTU thread-

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=34302&page=2

In particular EDU and SOC came in for a big upgrade in use, EDU to see whether a character knows how to do difficult tasks, and SOC for NPC reactions and effectively 'credit rating'.

Low SOC also becomes the basis for Streetwise rolls, the low life response to getting access to societal resources, and low EDU is advantageous for rolling for Rumors.

Some people would argue that I gave inordinate ability to stats, for instance an INT B character gets effectively +4 rolls on anything INT-based, but not worried about it, the not-so-smart but educated person can do nearly as well and I want natural talent to play a larger role/roll, I am far more brutal about the 'don't have skill' task difficulty increases, and I goose the skills to do things like have initiative, help on both EDU and INT rolls, reduce ammo use, get paid more, do more damage, etc.

 

[flykiller]

I don't remember them coming into much demand during the published adventures.

physical actions, especially combat, are common to all games and easily translate from one to another. opportunities for using intelligence, education, and especially social standing, however, are highly background- and game- and referee- specific. it's not that these stats are not in demand, it's that it's hard to write published adventures that use them.

I found Streetwise-1 more useful than high EDU.

this indicates the nature of the games you yourself play, not the utility of edu in general. e.g. imtu a character with high edu and arriving at glisten would tell the group "we need to see the robot wars and take the glass shuttle and hit CyberMart!" a character with low edu might say, "ooh, lots of pretty lights, where do we start?"

 

[flykiller]

low EDU is advantageous for rolling for Rumors.

... why?

 

[flykiller]

redid the task system where stats are front and center.

so, do your players now roll on the personal development tables and not the skill tables?

 

[atpollard]

this indicates the nature of the games you yourself play, not the utility of edu in general. e.g. imtu a character with high edu and arriving at glisten would tell the group "we need to see the robot wars and take the glass shuttle and hit CyberMart!" a character with low edu might say, "ooh, lots of pretty lights, where do we start?"

How does that translate into game mechanics?
What differentiates the bright PLAYER with an EDU 4 CHARACTER from the average PLAYER with an EDU 14 CHARACTER?
How does the PLAYER know what the CHARACTER is supposed to know?
(this becomes the difficulty in actually using INT/EDU/SOC without custom house rules that quantify IMTU mechanics.)

It is not impossible, just innately harder (than rolling Electronics-1 to fix a device).

 

[kilemall]

... why?

A commentary on differing styles of information acquisition.

A high education person might read up on a business opportunity in WSJ or The Economist and then follow up with some reference books, blogs, asking experts etc., always looking for the vetted information by voices of respected authority.

The low education person would hear of a business opportunity down at the barber shop, the warehouse, the bar, 'I was talking to this guy' sort of information flow, which may be wild goose chases, may be far more accurate and timely then waiting on the Educated information dissemination.

I always dearly loved that LL/bribery roll mechanic, just looking to bring the same to stats.

 

[flykiller]

How does that translate into game mechanics?

oh. imtu stat2=-2, stat3-4=-1, stat10-11=+1, stat 12=+2, vs difficulty

task: be aware of some critical fact
rating: difficult, 9+
mods: edu 10, +1
roll: 2d6 +1 for 9+

ymmv.

 

[kilemall]

so, do your players now roll on the personal development tables and not the skill tables?

We haven't done any new characters since I went to this system, I expect they will roll more on there though.

One character is over 10 in both STR and DEX, he is a monster in combat.

They would be ill-advised to min/max by going ONLY personal dev though, no skill task roles are brutal if they don't have JOAT.

 

[mike wightman]

I am 50, I would definitely say I have suffered some stat reduction.
I recently played 5 aside football at work against the 26-36 year old staff.
I couldn't outrun them, I didn't have the stamina to run around as much as them. But my superior knowledge and tactical awareness of the game meant I could outplay them - superior skill learned through years of experience playing football (soccer to you colonials). Skill trumps stat.

If you want me to fight them I have black belts in karate and aikido not to mention real combat training from my time in the army - the youngsters wouldn't stand a chance. Again learning trumps physical characteristics.

 

[flykiller]

We haven't done any new characters since I went to this system, I expect they will roll more on there though.

when I used those tables I just said that for each tour the character gets a roll on personal development, have at it.

 

[mike wightman]

I remember someone posting that they misread the rules and the players got to roll on each table every time they earned a skill...

 

[flykiller]

players got to roll on each table every time they earned a skill...

with an appropriate task system that would work well.

 

[Condottiere]

Depending on how much time and effort you want to spend on it, you can make point based character generation path dependent, in that you can change toe amount of points certain skills can be bought for depending on the life path the character took, or even cap the total skill points.

If you're a poor kid from a inner city ghetto who manages to get a scholarship to an Ivy League college, you could both be considerably streetwise and bookwise.

 

[atpollard]

While I don't want to go too far from CT Rules as Written into IMTU, I thought that a +2 ability bonus was closer to equal to a skill-1. I just see skills as much more valuable under the game mechanics (which I like).

It avoids the classic problem of "I am not a surgeon, I just have very nimble fingers that give me better odds at operating on your chest wound than a typical doctor."

 

[kilemall]

I am 50, I would definitely say I have suffered some stat reduction.
I recently played 5 aside football at work against the 26-36 year old staff.
I couldn't outrun them, I didn't have the stamina to run around as much as them. But my superior knowledge and tactical awareness of the game meant I could outplay them - superior skill learned through years of experience playing football (soccer to you colonials). Skill trumps stat.

If you want me to fight them I have black belts in karate and aikido not to mention real combat training from my time in the army - the youngsters wouldn't stand a chance. Again learning trumps physical characteristics.

Yes, and in my system you would have initiative AND do more damage to the kids per blow.

But a kid that has studied since age 9 and is as skilled as you has talent AND skill working for him, is likely to kick your butt.