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The path least traveller-ed

While I don't want to go too far from CT Rules as Written into IMTU, I thought that a +2 ability bonus was closer to equal to a skill-1. I just see skills as much more valuable under the game mechanics (which I like).

It avoids the classic problem of "I am not a surgeon, I just have very nimble fingers that give me better odds at operating on your chest wound than a typical doctor."


I'll translate this to 68A style of resolution for easy reference.

Chest wounds are judged a basic roll of A, just to simplify things we'll make it an INT-based skill roll. We could be justified in making it perhaps two rolls, INT and DEX, or one (INT+DEX)/2.


  1. We have a 777777 doctor with Medic-4,
  2. a surgeon with 999999 Medic-1, and
  3. a AAAAAA with no skill.
Stats are STAT -7= +/- DM.
No skill is -4.

INT skill tasks can be lowered by EDU rolls. So


  1. Can lower the task to an 8+ roll with a A roll (+4 skill), 6+
  2. Can lower the task to an 8+ roll with a A roll (+1 skill +2 EDU) 7+
  3. Can lower the task to an 8+ roll with a A roll (-4 for 0 skill, +3 EDU) 11+
These rolls would also be the INT rolls since INT is equal in our example characters.


So the gap widens even more for the non-skilled, really a good chance of -6 compared to the skilled counterparts.
 
It avoids the classic problem of "I am not a surgeon, I just have very nimble fingers that give me better odds at operating on your chest wound than a typical doctor."

(if by "chest wound" you mean sucking chest wound or something similar) this misunderstands the tasking. someone with seamstress 4 and dexterity 12 will of course sew up the hole just fine, perhaps even brilliantly, but the chances of patient survival, while improved, remain very low.
 
My advice is to start with rolling your own subsector. Pick a couple of the old double adventures as jumping off points - my favourite remains Death Station - and go from there. You can add background as you need it.

Many thanks Mike I am taking (a version) of your advice. I am rationalising and expanding on the UPP's in the Regina sub sector from TTB. I have a few ideas campaign wise and hope that by breathing some life into these worlds more ideas will emerge.
 
Very very true Flykiller. Unfortunately I am way too busy in the real world to GM at present. So I just create campaigns, ready for when life will be a bit less busy.

You might try some "pass the paper" type setting building with a gamer friend or two... Everyone gets to write a paragraph building upon what's been framed up so far...

Works really well as a "forward the email" method.
 
Yes, and in my system you would have initiative AND do more damage to the kids per blow.

But a kid that has studied since age 9 and is as skilled as you has talent AND skill working for him, is likely to kick your butt.

atpollard and I are playing with Striker as the main combat mechanic. I'm of the opinion that experience and morale (self-discipline, focus, coolness under fire) are more important that raw skill.

So far the PCs are heroic and that's the way we like it. The mechanisms are simple, too. I'm trying to figure out how to expand them to other types of tasks.
 
How does that translate into game mechanics?
What differentiates the bright PLAYER with an EDU 4 CHARACTER from the average PLAYER with an EDU 14 CHARACTER?
How does the PLAYER know what the CHARACTER is supposed to know?
(this becomes the difficulty in actually using INT/EDU/SOC without custom house rules that quantify IMTU mechanics.)

It is not impossible, just innately harder (than rolling Electronics-1 to fix a device).

I agree that Int, Edu, and Soc are more difficult to bring out in play, but I like the things they provide more than the physicals. That may play with the sorts of challenges I prefer in games. Of course, doing violent things to a very bad guy now and again does feel good!

As an average player I enjoy the DM giving me hints my character would know. I tend to play average+ Int/Edu characters because I like those sorts of games.
 
atpollard and I are playing with Striker as the main combat mechanic. I'm of the opinion that experience and morale (self-discipline, focus, coolness under fire) are more important that raw skill.

So far the PCs are heroic and that's the way we like it. The mechanisms are simple, too. I'm trying to figure out how to expand them to other types of tasks.

I am too, which is why I'm looking at expanding the melee initiative rules to all combat, already allow skill to effectively increase penetration, and in general the DEX B Gun-0 fellow is likely going to be dead by the DEX 7 Gun-4 guy before he gets a shot.

Gun-4 guy is also going to use 25% of ammo with the auto rule due to fire discipline. That sort of thing that separates the professionals from the militia.

It's just that the DEX B Gun-4 guy is going to be a legendary sniper, and DEX-4 Gun-0 should probably look into melee weapons or ortillery.
 
You might try some "pass the paper" type setting building with a gamer friend or two...

a great idea, and why not here and now? san*klass, generate a list of people here that you want to contribute, then start a doc and send it out. public or private, serial or parallel, whatever works for your game idea.

you -> contributor -> contributor -> contributor etc

or

you -> contributor -> you -> contributor etc

or

you -> contributor
you -> contributor
you -> contributor
merge contributions, repeat
 
You might try some "pass the paper" type setting building with a gamer friend or two...

a great idea, and why not here and now? san*klass, generate a list of people here that you want to contribute, then start a doc and send it out. public or private, serial or parallel, whatever works for your game idea.

you -> contributor -> contributor -> contributor etc

or

you -> contributor -> you -> contributor etc

or

you -> contributor
you -> contributor
you -> contributor
merge contributions, repeat

anybody try this?
 
I wouldn't have suggested it if I hadn't used it before.

I meant here and now. lot of people talking about "proto-traveller" and getting rid of the third imperium, basically starting over. a group project, everybody chips in, provide a framework for the new efforts (and perhaps new referees and - dare I say it - new games).
 
I meant here and now. lot of people talking about "proto-traveller" and getting rid of the third imperium, basically starting over. a group project, everybody chips in, provide a framework for the new efforts (and perhaps new referees and - dare I say it - new games).

Doing so above the "your own group" level is pretty much counter to the mindset behind most of the advocacy of Prototraveller...

Which is part of the ProtoTraveller as OSR game.
Traveller in Prototraveller mode as comparable to D&D OE w/Supplements that is now so commonly the baseline for the OSR fantasy games.

Build your OWN subsector or two, and play in it.
 
Doing so above the "your own group" level is pretty much counter to the mindset behind most of the advocacy of Prototraveller...

huh. so, abandoning any central traveller game and all-in on private versions? what will happen to all the "canon" and those who write for it?

heh. reminds me of that colonel in "gods and generals" who can't keep control of his regiment and gives up and draws his sword and yells "charge!" ....
 
huh. so, abandoning any central traveller game and all-in on private versions? what will happen to all the "canon" and those who write for it?

They tone down the huge astro-political arc of the story line and instead focus on how to rescue the scientist being held captive by the Sinister Corporate Enterprise.

Instead of Arrival:Vengeance you get stories where the politics of consequence affect a small town, or a neighborhood in a city, or a small merchant company.

If the referee wants to intertwine the adventures narrative in to a larger story arc, then that's their prerogative.

But it adventure writers simply specify any environmental aspects that really affect their scenarios (i.e. this adventure really needs to happen on a vacuum world), then simply leave out things like what planet in what star system it's on. Rather, "on a lightly populated terran world, a man in black approaches the party and…"
 
They tone down the huge astro-political arc of the story line and instead focus on how to rescue the scientist being held captive by the Sinister Corporate Enterprise.

any reason you can't do that in 3i? rpg action takes place many strata below the "huge astro-political arc" level, even if the adventure is located directly on mora or glisten (let alone if it takes place on karin or pagaton). perhaps what you are really aiming at is creating your own "medium-sized astro-political arc"?
 
any reason you can't do that in 3i?

It's done in the 3I in order to expand the 3I. If it's done generically then a) it doesn't depend on the 3I (officially) but also, b) does not extend the 3I (officially).

So, it all depends on the motives of the author of the work.
 
I would say there is another element that is involved with you using the Third Imperium or not, besides that of the "scale" of conflict, and that is the nature of the setting itself.

For some people, The Third Imperium is exactly what they would want. (Some people here seem incapable of envisioning anything else.) And that's great.

But for some of us, The Third Imperium is bland. I know some of you might say, "But there's so much!" And great. You love it. That's great. But for a lot of us, not so much.

It's important to note that LBBs 1-3 are light on on Science-Fiction. It's isn't just the archaic weapons I'm talking about. I'm pointing out that the original rules contained:
  • Jump Drive Technology for Interstellar Travel
  • Interstellar Civilizations
  • Interstellar Communication Moves at the Speed of Interstellar Travel
  • Indigenous Life Forms on Countless Worlds
  • Psionics
  • Cold Sleep
  • Grav Vehicles
  • Advanced Drugs
  • Laser Canons
  • Laser Rifles

And that's it for the SF elements.

Most of that list is built of daily life stuff that most PCs would not find mysterious or startling. The SF elements in LBBs are both bland and routine for the most part.

That's because Miller expected people who played Traveller to mine the SF books they read and use those at the "sourcebooks" for their Traveller games. A "conservative" SF sensibility allowed the basic rules to port to any other strange environments the Referee created. But, importantly, it was assumed the Referee would create strange environments, alien races, new technologies, and all the stuff that the Referee would love to share with is Players as their characters traveled from world to world.

But when GDW built the OTU, how strange and colorful were the worlds and alien races that showed up? Well, apart from the Ancients and their genetic-engineering shenanigans, the OTU universe is... no more colorful or strange than the basic setting details presented in the LBBs 1-3. What was a conservative baseline for the basic rules became the definition of the SF for the OTU.

Here is a sample world from MgT's THE REFT SECTOR:
Racha is a small gas giant orbited by a collection of small planetoids its gravity has captured over the millennia. None of these moons is large enough to support a colony, but some are big enough to be worth mining. So thought the crew of the asteroid-hulled sublight colony ship ColSec Mariner when they arrived several centuries ago. ColSec Mariner was placed in a parking orbit around the gas giant, and gradually changed its name to Mariner Colony. From this artificial moon, the colonists began to exploit the mineral deposits of the secondary system’s scattered planetoids, obtaining hydrocarbons and petrochemicals from Racha’s atmosphere.

Mariner Colony did well, reaching a population of about 100,000 at its peak. This has declined somewhat but the colony remains entirely viable. Although there are no moons suitable for habitation orbiting Racha, the scattered planetoids of the secondary system include a number that could be, and indeed have been, settled. Thus Mariner Colony has fathered a brood of small belter settlements. These are self-governing, using the same system of semi-hereditary officers as the main colony.

Mariner’s engines remain functional, and are occasionally used to change orbit or to visit a planetoid chosen for seeding with a colony. There is even some talk of transferring most of the population to the planetoid colonies and loading up with minerals for a trading voyage back to the main system. This is doable in terms of technology and practicalities, but it would cause considerable disruption to the populace whilst probably not being economically viable.

Thus for the time being Mariner Colony remains a mobile planetoid habitat which is usually a temporary moon of the gas giant Racha. The planetoid population (including Mariner) trade with Svaneti. This mainly takes the form of raw materials for food, but skills and experience are often traded, and personnel will sometimes marry into another society. Relations are friendly, though there is nothing even resembling a formal government- to-government embassy.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and point at that most worlds written up in OTU material are pretty much like this. A little bit about a not particularly intriguing environment, a little bit about some trade, a little bit about some politics. Usually things are fairly stable. Usually nothing particularly interesting is happening. And if something interesting is happening it will be about trade or politics, and rarely at all involving any sort of SF theme or idea.

(Out on a limb not because I'm wrong, but because someone might show up with an outlandish exception. Great. There are exceptions. And those will prove the point. Again, I'm looking at the overall write-ups of OTU worlds.)

Now, for some people, great. They want a space setting that feels pretty much like earth in the 20th Century, except you need space ships to travel around, and instead of having bland bureaucrats that are addressed Mr. or Ms., they are given noble titles.

But let's look at the references for Traveller material before the OTU came into existence:

In the back of Supplement 1: 1001 Characters (1978), nine characters from fiction are described and statted as Traveller PCs. These characters are:
  • John Carter
  • Kimball Kinnison
  • Jason dinAlt
  • Earl Dumarest
  • Beowulf Shaeffer
  • Anthony Villiers
  • Dominic Flandry
  • Kirth Girsen
  • Gully Foyle
I'm going to be both blunt and quick here:

These are the characters in the stories that inspired Marc Miller to create Traveller. I challenge anyone to go do some googling, dig up some of the books, read about the stories and the settings (or better yet, read them), and come back and tell me that the splendor, wonder, weirdness, color, SF-themes, and settings are as straightforward, mundane, and perfunctory as most of the material in the OTU.

(I will exempt The Stainless Steel Rat books from this challenge, as they fit to the temple of OTU world-buidling aesthetics rather closely. But most of us are familiar, at least as a reference with John Carter. When you think of the OTU as developed over the years, do you imagine anything as bold and over the top as Burroughs' world? The other characters and their settings are worth investigating for their adventure and playfulness as well.)

Some of us want worlds and settings that are strange, and wondrous, and places to explore, and to astound our players with unexpected wonders, and so on. And the fact is, the world-building aesthetics of the OTU have never been particularly friendly to that kind of world-building.

But there are some great mechanics in various editions of Traveller that work fantastically well independent of any OTU setting. In fact, when Miller sent Traveller off to the printer, he assumed (like Gary Gygax before him, sending D&D off to the printer) his work was done. He had built a game for people to be inspired by books he loved and go make those setting for their games with the mechanical framework he had provided.

For some of us, that's exactly what we want to do with the game. And for some of us, the OTU isn't what we would want from a far-future SF setting. And so we'd make something else for our friends.

Again, this isn't that big a deal. People should play in the kinds of settings they want. If the OTU works for you, great.
 
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They tone down the huge astro-political arc of the story line and instead focus on how to rescue the scientist being held captive by the Sinister Corporate Enterprise.

Or the PCs get involved with the politics of the subsector they are in. Blowing off the politics taking place subsectors away (and months away) doesn't mean playing at a small scale. It could mean valuing the geography, politics, and adventures that are large in scale in the immediate area.

Certainly that's what I would do. Even if larger influences outside the subsector play a part (which is certainly possible) the immediate drama and adventure is still the focus. In the novel Dune, the influence and politics of the Emperor, the Space Guild, and the squabbling Noble Houses all have an impact on what is happening. But we need only a sketch of those elements to have an astounding, fantastical adventure story set on a single planet. The immediate actions and focus of the main characters are on that planet.

Going small and intimate is certainly one path. But its not the only one.
 
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