The "portable" Mini-Gun from Predator

[Blue Ghost]

Okay, some twisted soul put together this 10 min "montage" of the minigun from Predator up on Youtube. What is the viability of such a weapon as being man portable? Is this just Hollywood being Hollywood, or could a heavygunner carry and field this thing in battle?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_lnq0HYBQE

 

[Travellerspud]

"First seen in the movie "Predator" in 1987, the hand-held Minigun has captured the harts and minds of He-Men everywhere, be it in games or in real life. The very image of Jesse Ventura as Blain, spraying bad guys with a veritable hail of bullets that issued forth from his Minigun Painless was so powerful that the weapon has been seen in both countless other movies *and* in games.

Even in real life the idea caught on surprisingly well. Apparently some of America`s Special Forces guys saw Predator and realized that a hand-held Minigun would be a great asset for clearing out landing zones real fast. Having ample acces to the needed equipment, they started experimenting. And ran into some problems.

The first was that the Minigun weighed in at thirty pounds, which was heavy, but carryable. A backpack with a thousand rounds of ammunition and a linkless belt to the Minigun weighed in at another thirtyfive pounds. Backpacks with two thousand rounds weighed in at sixtyfive pounds, and were totally unrealistic in size. Just the gun and the ammo weighed in at sixtyfive pounds.

The second was that in the movie, the power for the Minigun had been supplied by a pair of truck batteries through a cable that simply ran over the ground, and up into the Minigun. Since those batteries weighed some 30 pounds each, it was obvious that only one could be carried by one person (in addition to all the other equipment the soldier was to carry). Thus, the weapon could never be fired at its full rate of fire.

The third problem was that even at "only" a 1000 rpm rate of fire the gun produces about 11 kg of recoil *continuesly*! And this amount of force increases geometrically in proportion to the rate of fire. Firing a large burst would result in the gunner being spun around by his own weapon, and spraying everything around him indiscriminately with bullets. Including his own comrades.....

After some experimenting it was thus realized that the gun would simply be too heavy and cumbersome to be ever used in real life combat, and the concept was abandoned. No army in the world has a hand-held Minigun in its arsenal."

http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Machine-Guns/GE_XM214_Minigun.htm

 

[aramis]

the XM215 microgun is man portable, and can be fitted to the standard M-122 tripod, or to a vehicle pintel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM214_Microgun

The steadicam rig is under DARPA consideration according to a show I saw on PBS last year for use with other MG's - the consideration was for improving the accuracy of the SAW.

Aliens and Predator both made convincing cases for a stripped down steadycam as a recoil compensator. (Even with blanks, the LMG has a good bit of recoil, and the actors using them commented on how easy it was to keep them on a target line with the modified steadicam rigs they were using.)

 

[Blue Ghost]

I always wondered about the power thing. I couldn't imagine the wielder carrying a marine or even a small car battery along with all the ammo and the weapon itself.

As for spinning in a circle uncontrollably. Well, I wonder. Granted the movie shots show an ideal situation, and we don't know if anyting is bracing Ventura, but it is interesting to note that he seemed, and I do emphasize seemed to be able to manage the thing.

I have to admit that in one of my later gaming groups after college I let one of the players have one of these beasts, but it had a low penetration factor to compensate for the hundreds
(if not thousands) of rounds the thing spat out.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Aramis, what makes you bring up the Aliens gyro LMG?

 

[aramis]

Aramis, what makes you bring up the Aliens gyro LMG?

Because it's the prototype for the man-pack pintel that DARPA is looking at to allow man-portable microgun use in the field. And it's actually a steadicam rig!

 

[Blue Ghost]

Because it's the prototype for the man-pack pintel that DARPA is looking at to allow man-portable microgun use in the field. And it's actually a steadicam rig!

I'll send you a PM.

Interesting info all the same.

 

[Patron Zero]

One possible step towards a more-feasible man-portable mini-gun would be replacing 'conventional' wet cell batteries with fuel cells or possible rapid-recharging lithium power-packs.

Another might be to replace the 'standard' ammunition cartridge with case-less munitions or even something similar to a gyro-jet round. All that spent brass now ringing off after firing does make up a considerable amount of weight when still in the magazine so that might be a serious place to look for alternative materials or even a chemical propulsion system.

And for sake of saying, how much of the actual weapons metal construction could be replaced with composites and-or ceramics to further lighten up the load.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I was thinking something similar, since percussion weaponry is still prevalent at higher tech levels, that there might be a fuel cell or miniaturized power plant / generator fitted into the kit, making this feasible.

I'm still baffled by the article's statement on recoil, because I have seen other instances of the thing being used, and firer did not whirl about uncontrollably.

 

[Travellerspud]

I could imagine a tank of compressed nitrogen to power the spinning (and help cool the barrels)...might only last for a bit, but carrying enough ammo to last more than a bit is already a problem...

 

[mike wightman]

Okay, some twisted soul put together this 10 min "montage" of the minigun from Predator up on Youtube. What is the viability of such a weapon as being man portable? Is this just Hollywood being Hollywood, or could a heavygunner carry and field this thing in battle?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_lnq0HYBQE

In the real world or in Traveller?

In the real world a fire team can carry the thing around and fire it from a tripod mount, hip fire is bound to be an emergency possibility.

You would need every other man in the squad to carry spare ammo for the thing.

This afternoon i have been watching a Sons of Guns marathon on Discovery, and in one episode there is a conversion of san M1919 .3cal machine gun to allow it to be shoulder fired. The 6'6"+ policeman firing the thing could fire bursts from the shoulder and from the hip.

In the near future the proposed robot mule could help with carrying the batteries and extra ammo, and then there are those nifty load bearing powered exoskeletons that are on the drawing board.

In Traveller you could definitely reduce the power pack in size by using the laser carbine backpack, electrothermal causeless or binary propellent ammo would reduce ammo weight a bit too.

You'd probably still need one of those proposed robot mules following you around with ammo or a powered exoskeleton, which is going to lead to the pre-cursor to battle dress.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I can't remember the stats for the weapon we had in my mid-90s group. It spat fire like nobody's business. Monday morning quarterbacking here; binary ammo seems neat. I imagine a compressed caseless round whose explosive expands when released from the mag, and then ignites....meh, just something off the top of my head.

Anyway, it looked really cool in the movie

 

[Ishmael]

How about this gun from the movie "Deep Rising"?
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=122730

I remember statting it out a long time ago on the TML
a 5 barrel mini-gun firing at ha;f max capacity to conserve ammo

 

[Kaeto]

I was thinking something similar, since percussion weaponry is still prevalent at higher tech levels, that there might be a fuel cell or miniaturized power plant / generator fitted into the kit, making this feasible.

I'm still baffled by the article's statement on recoil, because I have seen other instances of the thing being used, and firer did not whirl about uncontrollably.

The reason the movie one had controllable recoil is because the visible flame of (simulated) firing is made by burning propane and no projectile coming out.

 

[Blue Ghost]

The reason the movie one had controllable recoil is because the visible flame of (simulated) firing is made by burning propane and no projectile coming out.

Was that in the "Making of..." doc or something?

 

[Blue Ghost]

Okay, some real life examples of the hand held minigun;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOfQUbF0ZYw

And the female version;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz95VVPYvpc

And the Tongue-in-Cheek patinballing version....never charge a minigun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g70PnuFwcho

And for chuckles and grins, a 50 Cal handheld
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LMJp63HGbw