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MGT Only: The problem with Mongoose Traveller?

I know that the Mongoose line suffered from an inability to retain authors that knew the setting and could also deliver the goods, and I know why that happened in my case and at least a couple of others. This led to a need to bring in other talent, not all of which was well suited to the task at hand.

Ideally, the line needed to be written by proven Traveller writers and managed by someone who could both give new talent a chance to prove themselves (small projects are good for this) and also retain the central vision if the writers decided to go fanboy and start slipping in their favourite 'fixes' or whatever.

The reality was rather more complex, and created some rather odd situations. For example, I recently offered to rework Gateway 993 for the 1105 setting, which was accepted. Gateway 993 was agreed as canon when published, so all later material should follow it. But when I put the manuscript in, I was told that it could not be published because it contradicted some other materials published later that changed some aspects of the Gateway setting.

I don't understand how that happened, but it does mean that Gateway 1105 was a bust and I'd wasted my time.

Conversely, the materials published by QLI for T20 were internally consistent because they were almost all written by one person (me) or overseen and project-managed by the same individual (me again). Others contributed but central control was retained.

I'm not aware of what the plans for Traveller at Mongoose might be, but it seems that recently there's been a lot less mainstream/OTU traveller and more other-applications.

As an aside, whilst I'm not totally opposed to non-mainstream-Traveller material in core rulebooks (eg some of the weapons in Mercenary), I do think that books need to be written by someone who understands that artillery does not have a range measured in tens of metres, and that a submachinegun is a thing, and I'd maybe like to see non-OTU stuff separated or flagged.

In short, my feeling is that Mongoose Traveller needs a single person at the helm as their main job, which might also include writing the majority of the books. If that someone knows Traveller and can produce good work, we'll have a consistent product line that keeps expanding.
 
MJD, keep in mind: Matthew has said on-line, repeatedly, "There is no Official Traveller Universe." He has used OTU to refer to the "Original Traveller Universe."

There is an apparent institutional disdain at Mongoose for the OTU, and when the head of the company says at the outset that it is no longer the "official universe", but the universe is more known than the rules, there is an inherent disconnect from the fans.

Also, it's interesting that Matthew quite obviously intentionally leaked that someone else beat him to the draw on the SW license... Which we know now was FFG.
 
MJD, keep in mind: Matthew has said on-line, repeatedly, "There is no Official Traveller Universe." He has used OTU to refer to the "Original Traveller Universe."

There is an apparent institutional disdain at Mongoose for the OTU, and when the head of the company says at the outset that it is no longer the "official universe", but the universe is more known than the rules, there is an inherent disconnect from the fans.

Also, it's interesting that Matthew quite obviously intentionally leaked that someone else beat him to the draw on the SW license... Which we know now was FFG.

If the above is true why carry the licence? Why not create your own in house set of rules and then apply that to other IP as they have done with the Traveller rule set?
 
If the above is true why carry the licence? Why not create your own in house set of rules and then apply that to other IP as they have done with the Traveller rule set?

It was a model they used with RuneQuest, as well. The MRQ game was NOT suited for the intensely high magical presence of Glorantha... but Glorantha was the setting most associated with the RQ name. They released a genericized set of rules under the RQ label, a few sourcebooks for the Gloranthan setting, and a few alternate settings as well using the same engine.

I can only speculate as to why - Matthew didn't blog that.

I suspect it has to do with (1) System Name Recognition and (2) pulling writers in.

Both RQ and Traveller had strong retail name recognition. Strong enough to move large volumes of product sight-unseen to distributors and stores.
 
Brand recognition makes a lot of sense. Folks are more likely to buy an established name than a new rules set. And of course there are a lot of books that can be converted to create a large product line quickly - and also benefiting from the same brand recognition factors. So the license does make a lot of sense.

Most of the obvious books have now been done, so it'll be interesting to see what Mongoose chooses to do with the Traveller OTU setting now. It just occurred to me that to a great extent if you want to write OTU materials you have to write for Mongoose, which means they annexed a lot of the fan-writing potential along with the license. Not sure if that was intentional, but in any case it hasn't produced a lot of writers.

One problem with a product line like Mongoose Traveller is that they want the books out quickly, and many of the potential writers are more the sort to create a labour of love taking months or years to complete - if it gets completed at all. If Mongoose can find the right people - who strike the balance between subject knoweldge and professionalism - then they could go on expanding the OTU forever. If they can't then it could end up just sort of stuck, with only Mongoose able to publish OTU materials and them not doing so.

Not sure what the answer to that would be....
 
Brand recognition makes a lot of sense. Folks are more likely to buy an established name than a new rules set. And of course there are a lot of books that can be converted to create a large product line quickly - and also benefiting from the same brand recognition factors.
That's the big difference between the MRQ and MGT licenses...

MRQ, they didn't have access to the prior products. In part, because they didn't license the game line; They had the trademark, and Greg working on setting. And RQ without the setting is just a heartbreaker built off of BRP. It's different enough from BRP/RQ1-3 that some conversions are needed.

Traveller, they secured permission to use the line as well as the trademark, and to use chunks of the mechanics.
 
That's interesting. Mongoose did secure rights to the setting of Glorantha, but only for the God Learner Empire era so they had to produce entirely original setting material for it. I'm not sure whether that was because they wanted to distinguish their material, or if it's because Moon Design had already republished all the old setting material so it wasn't available for them to use.

Anyway, Mongoose produced a fair amount of Gloranthan setting material during their run with the license. I think the main problem was the rules set. The first edition was plagued with system problems and was written off by the Glorantha fan community. While second edition was a huge improvement, it never really recovered in credibility among Glorantha fans, though it did find a new audience through Mongoose.

Conversely, Mongoose Traveller was a rock solid rules set right from the word go, which created a huge amount of good will.

Simon Hibbs
 
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In short, my feeling is that Mongoose Traveller needs a single person at the helm as their main job, which might also include writing the majority of the books. If that someone knows Traveller and can produce good work, we'll have a consistent product line that keeps expanding.

I am not an RPG industry or other creative professional in any sense, but this argument seems subject to one flaw which is: what if the mastermind is not up to it?

I'll take "patchy" over "consistently rubbish".
 
There is an apparent institutional disdain at Mongoose for the OTU, and when the head of the company says at the outset that it is no longer the "official universe", but the universe is more known than the rules, there is an inherent disconnect from the fans.

I was at Gencon UK when Mongoose first got the Traveller licence. A press flyer came round announcing Traveller was coming back after being OOP for ten years. I remember looking at all the GT/T20/HT products on the BITS stand (plus supporting BITS products) and thinking, so what's all this, chopped liver?

Then I went to a Q and A session given by Mongoose where Matthew (I think it was him) told the room that Traveller was the rules and not the setting, and smugly announced that he "intended to drive a wedge" between them. So I guess GT, for example, is just a variant of GURPS for playing the OTU and not real Traveller in their eyes. Ditto T20 and HT.

I'm not sure "apparent institutional disdain" covers it.
 
I'm not sure "apparent institutional disdain" covers it.
That was a very intentional understatement on my part.

There was also the slew of "that doesn't matter" responses from Mongoose staffers when it was pointed out that certain OTU elements were being contradicted in the public playtest.
 
I told myself that I'd stay away from this forum for a while, but, the only thing I can say about Mongoose is that Traveller is alive and well in part because of them. I'm not happy that my many attempts at submission were snubbed, and that the one response I got was a reply to a post on this BBS with the qualifier "we can't pay you...", but that doesn't dictate their handling of the success of the reintroduction of Traveller as a game system.

Traveller as envisioned was supposed to be the D&D of space, but used a simplified mechanic to create rules where you could simulate any sci-fi setting you wanted, and oddly enough, with a strange leaning towards "hard science" verse fiction.

I really don't like the way I was treated by Mongoose, and think it unprofessional to the core, but what am I going to do about it? Nothing. They missed out on my authorship, which, though creative, isn't going to make nor break anyone's company (no matter how good I think the s__t I write is).

Gypsy gave me a chance, and I delivered, and it paid off. The fact that my personal life has been in perpetual turmoil since 2005 has put a crimp in my style in furthering both a film career (which I've now abandoned), and any other kind of career, including a writing one. But, I don't blame Mongoose for that.

The worst I can say about them is that they didn't take the Loren or MJD tact of replying to my queries by being all business and saying "Shoot me an outline, or a rough", and instead treated me like a plague victim. Oh well. Their loss. I'm making money for both me and Gypsy Knights, and I have plans to make more with self publication for the Official TU.

Enough said for now.

Time to go replace my mother board :(
 
In short; I don't like Mongoose, but I don't see a problem with them. If the personal attitudes of their leadership reported here are correct, then that's unfortunate. But their formulations for Traveller's come back have been successful, and I hope continue to be so for what they do.

Having said all that, I hope T5 is the next and final iteration of Traveller, and continues to evolve in terms of source material, and brings about new adventures and materials for everyone to enjoy.

I have to finish up some art details with Wayne, and then I'll soon be on my first publication venture...after I get the county of San Mateo out of my personal life.

p.s. I hate retail, and miss film work. oh well
 
John, since when the heck were you in San Mateo county? I figured you for a Midwesterner.

p.s. I should be sleeping...oh well.
 
Those two years did give me some insight into how the superfluously rich, and those who live in their proximity, view the rest of the world, So there is that.

But Dave Chase is right. Ironic, but right.
 
I...after I get the county of San Mateo out of my personal life.

Is San Mateo in San Mateo County? I just spent two weeks there last Labor Day.

Beautiful place. Here's a little story from my trip.

My brother lives there. We stopped by a Target to pick up a few things. I had a slight cough, so I picked up something from the pharmacy. It was my first purchase since I had arrived. As I was checking out, the lady asked me if I wanted a bag. Sure, I told her. I didn't want to carry the box around in my hand.

"That's an extra $0.10 cents."

I took a double take. "What? You charge for bags?"

The woman took a pious stance and announced that it was THE LAW. Yes, if you want a bag in San Mateo, you've got to spend extra for it.

About that time, my brother showed up behind me. He was smiling. I think he knew how I'd react.

"Ten cents," I said to her, with an incredulous look on my face. "For...a...bag."

"Yes, sir," she said, smiling at me, "the bigger ones are a quarter."

I started to say more, but my brother popped his head around me at this moment, flipping a dime up on the counter. "He doesn't understand," he appologized to her, "he's from Texas, the Common Sense State."

We both started rolling, holding our guts.
 
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