TO&E for the Vilani Army aka Gisadia Ziru Sirka (Army of the Grand Empire of the Stars)

[warstar]

Is there any official or unofficial sources that gives a breakdown of how the Army of the Grand Empire of the Stars was organized from the squad level all the way upto the army level? I did some Google searches and found nothing. Would be happy with just the number of personnel at each level.

Please feel free to correct any level that I missed or placed in the wrong position.

Team
Squad
Section
Platoon
Company
Battalion
Regiment
Brigade
Division
Corps
Army

 

[Condottiere]

Nadshemi - infantry battalion, twelve hundred troops, large staff, few vehicles; five infantry companies, one command/support

Ishkaaim - three tank (oversized) companies, command/support company

Lurkugi - small division, or a really big brigade; six battalion equivalent, extensive artillery, support battalion

Kuearda - corps equivalent; three to five lurkugi

Sukauuaashdug - army equivalent, upto army group size

 

[kilemall]

We have those units from Imperium, which gives some clue as to naming scheme and unit size, and a general weakness compared to TC army units. But that is provincial ops and so an incomplete look.

 

[Condottiere]

If I had to speculate, a lot more support units are at the lurkugi level than mentioned, the battalions dumping a lot, if not most, of the support functions to that, since it's also the primary operational unit.

I'm thinking a variant of the pentomic division, with five infantry battalions, one tank battalion, one light artillery and one heavy artillery battalions.

 

[McPerth]

From MT:V&V, page 37:

Large Scale Combat:

(…)

Under the Vilani system, the basic combat unit is the two men fire team. Working on a “buddy system” principle (…) Four such fire teams are combined with a command team – an NCO and a lower rank support NCO – to form a squad. Four squads are combined with a command squad and an elite squad to form a platoon. All larger units consist of four the next smaller unit, along with a command unit

I hope that serves...

 

[Condottiere]

Sounds like the clones in The Forever War.

While I think they do have a flatter hierarchy, they conform very strictly to doctrine, and probably collegiality.

 

[warstar]

Nadshemi - infantry battalion, twelve hundred troops, large staff, few vehicles; five infantry companies, one command/support

Ishkaaim - three tank (oversized) companies, command/support company

Lurkugi - small division, or a really big brigade; six battalion equivalent, extensive artillery, support battalion

Kuearda - corps equivalent; three to five lurkugi

Sukauuaashdug - army equivalent, upto army group size

Thanks for the info.

I do think it's odd that there is no intermediate level included between the battalion level and division level but it could be something like the US Army did in WW2 with combat commands for armored divisions.

A combat command was a combined-arms military organization of comparable size to a brigade or regiment employed by armored forces of the United States Army from 1942 until 1963. The structure of combat commands was task-organized and so the forces assigned to a combat command often varied from mission to mission. (From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

 

[Condottiere]

I don't really care much for the Vilani, but that need for centralized control and what appears a rather wide span of control, does emphasize really sticking to doctrine, and probably a large communications battalion, for coordination.

As I recall, the Americans came to the conclusion the pentomic division doesn't work with Fifties technology, and I get the implication it was only an exercise to prove it couldn't.

I'm more inclined to believe the square formation for combat elements, since you can split them into two under a subcommander, who I'll suppose is very aware of his commander's intent, and that these are basically light infantry, backed with lots of artillery.

And outside of the light infantry, it does look very Soviet.

 

[kilemall]

The pentatomic division wasn’t about conventional combat effectiveness but being able to have some parts of a division functioning after tacnuke strikes.

 

[Condottiere]

Hence, infantry fighting vehicle.

Militaries tend to be the end evolution of the last war they fought, or if they had been on streak of success, whatever they think worked.

My guess would be they drop a lurkugi whenever they detect unrest, which would explain the lack of vehicles for the light infantry, since they have to assume they have it contained.

 

[warstar]

I don't really care much for the Vilani, but that need for centralized control and what appears a rather wide span of control, does emphasize really sticking to doctrine, and probably a large communications battalion, for coordination.

As I recall, the Americans came to the conclusion the pentomic division doesn't work with Fifties technology, and I get the implication it was only an exercise to prove it couldn't.

I'm more inclined to believe the square formation for combat elements, since you can split them into two under a subcommander, who I'll suppose is very aware of his commander's intent, and that these are basically light infantry, backed with lots of artillery.

And outside of the light infantry, it does look very Soviet.

I wouldn't be surprised about Soviet Union as an inspiration for the Vilani army since the army ranks mirror the ranks of the early Red Army.

 

[Condottiere]

Starsky and Starshine.

 

[McPerth]

Nadshemi - infantry battalion, twelve hundred troops, large staff, few vehicles; five infantry companies, one command/support

Ishkaaim - three tank (oversized) companies, command/support company

Lurkugi - small division, or a really big brigade; six battalion equivalent, extensive artillery, support battalion

Kuearda - corps equivalent; three to five lurkugi

Sukauuaashdug - army equivalent, upto army group size

Just curious, where is this information from?

The only thing I remember to have read about it is what I posted above, and does not coincide...

 

[Condottiere]

GURPS Interstellar Wars.

I didn't mention their Foreign Legion, since they probably have a more fluid organization.

 

[warstar]

GURPS Interstellar Wars.

I didn't mention their Foreign Legion, since they probably have a more fluid organization.

From the book regarding organization of the Shigniid Dia Ugkin (“Legion of the Frontier”) - "Although the Shigniid Dia Ugkin can be found almost anywhere along the Imperial border, it is organized into units no larger than a company. There is usually one group of five Legion companies per frontier sector."

 

[McPerth]

GURPS Interstellar Wars.

Then it seems we have two contradictory sources, GURPS Interstellar Wars and MT:V&V...

 

[McPerth]

As I have no reason to discuss the name, if trying to adapt to what MT:V&V it would be:

• A platoon is (as told) about 50 men
• A company (however they call it) would be about 250 men (4 platoons + command one)
• A Nadshemi four companies + command unit (so about 1200-1250 men, not too different from what Condottiere says)
• An Ishkaaim (I understand the tank equivalent to an infantry Nadshemi) would be four tank platoons and a command unit
• And so on

Of course, according what Condottiere says, there is no equivalent to brigade/regiment (unit between Nadshemi and Lurkug)m making their Divisions (Lurkugi), as he also says, quite small...

 

[Condottiere]

1. My opinion is that there's a tension between the instinct for centralization, and the need for dispersal.

2. The division is probably a lot larger than it appears, with lots of support battalions that aren't mentioned.

3. It probably also has a very large motor pool, that lends out vehicles to the battalions that need transport.

4. Implications are that at least in the field, the Vilani seem short of armour.

5. That should indicate that they have armour heavy divisions, which are reserved for breakthrough actions, just not many of them.

 

[mike wightman]

Why bother? If they face a threat that would require heavy armour divisions they would just nuke from orbit as they did during the consolidation wars.

 

[Condottiere]

Each army likely has an armoured corps, where the tank battalions are drawn from.

Each corps is likely to have a mechanized brigade equivalent in reserve, to act as a fire brigade.