Traveller Advanced Base

[Vile]

As far as ducting goes, I would have the whole lot clipped to the inside of the walls in as flat a package as possible. This makes it easy to customise, modify or service. The problem with having it running inside the walls is that this limits which panels you can put where. I would have just a basic electrical circuit running through the framework itself, and any power outlets can be fitted where needed.

 

[Vile]

I'm no whiz at physics or math but I know if you want to keep the volume of something the same but reduce the size you increase the pressure.

You just need to keep the cross-sectional area the same. For example, air pressure through a 10mm x 1000mm duct will be the same as through a 100mm x 100mm duct (provided you use the same pump, of course). The same applies to any pneumatic or hydraulic system. With the garden hose, you're actually reducing the area of the outlet, resulting in an increase in output pressure.

Now for, erm, solid waste, if you want to reduce the size of the pipes, you probably want a masticator attached to the input end of the system.

I agree that running the pipes outside might not be the best option if shielding is required. It won't always be required though.

That's true, and it shows another way that the Advanced Base and Pre-Fabricated Cabin can differ although they use the same basic structure. On the former, you shield your ducts or keep them inside, on the latter you don't need to shield them and they'll probably go on the roof where they're out of the way.

 

[CosmicGamer]

Originally Posted by LBB3 p.19
Advanced Base (8) Cr50,000. Modular pressurized quarters for 6 persons, with air lock and atmosphere recirculating system. 2 by 6 by 6 meters. Can be carried in the hold of a starship. Weighs 6 tons.

As far as rounding off is concerned, I'm not willing to concede that that could apply to stuff that gets put into spaceships, or stuff that has to be bolted to other stuff. I seem to remember a few problems a few years back with mixing imperial and metric on some Mars probes ...

So you believe it weighs exactly 6 tons. Not 5.9 or 6.1. Everything in the book is nice round figures unless it's a small number, then it might be something like 1.5. Look at that 500 ton Submersible (page 23, LBB 3). Those engineers were really good. Not 499 tons or 501 but exactly 500.

See what you did, you made me pull out my book!

This will be my last comment on rounding off.... for tonight.

 

[BlackBat242]

To repeat my post on the "deckplan-outpost" thread,

The US military has been using this for decades (since the early 1970s, at least).

I worked almost exclusively in 8'x8'x20' "mobile maintenance facility" "vans" for most of the 6 years I spent in the USMC after completing schooling. The US Navy even put a small cluster of these suspended from the ceiling in the forward end of the hangar bay in many of its supercarriers!

Multi-layer complexes can also be set up on USN support ships (T-AVB), with up to 300 mobile facilities and 52 access modules loaded on board, 186 of which may be fully powered and operational.

Here is a PDF on the concept:
http://www.natick.army.mil/soldier/j...2005/butts.pdf

The entire IMA (intermediate maintenance activity) support for a squadron or air group can be packed into C-130s, C-17s, and C-5s and moved around the world, and takes only a few hours (if you have a crane available) or days (if you have to use hand jacks & wheel sets) to position and set up for use.

They are used for many other things too... dental and other medical facilities have been packed into these for field use.


The "2 x 6 x 6 meters" (72 m3) shelter is almost exactly the volume of the "a/b double combo" shown there (8' x 16' x 20'... 2.43 x 4.88 x 6.09 meters... 72.217 m3).

 

[CosmicGamer]

You just need to keep the cross-sectional area the same. For example, air pressure through a 10mm x 1000mm duct will be the same as through a 100mm x 100mm duct (provided you use the same pump, of course). The same applies to any pneumatic or hydraulic system. With the garden hose, you're actually reducing the area of the outlet, resulting in an increase in output pressure.

It makes sense the way you explained it. Samuelvss used the terms pipe and hose so I kept envisioning round.

 

[Vile]

See what you did, you made me pull out my book!

Mission accomplished! :devil:

Really, though, it's completely arbitrary. I just choose to accept those dimensions as my starting point. And I'm not re-doing the model.

BlackBat, those modular containers look interesting (PDF saved!). One problem is that they seem to be designed for fair-weather use, with all those extenal hatches which open up to let you get at the equipment inside. Maybe that's just the impression I get from looking at those pictures. Do you know if they actually have internal operator space, or are they all crammed full of electronics and gear?

 

[Border Reiver]

:rofl:

Portakabins

Climate controlled, steel shutters, fully networked, freshers, kitchens, labs, digital locks, fire & security features. The list is endless. All in a 7.5m x 3m x 3m module (other sizes available)

 

[Vile]

Hehehe .. those two examples at the top of the page look slightly more up-market than any portacabins I've ever worked in. Mind you, it's been a while. :rofl:

 

[BlackBat242]

If you read the PDF, you will find they are the work areas for military equipment repair. Yes, there is room inside to move and work, and to bring equipment in and out. Single-wide vans are used for smaller equipment & work stations, larger ones have double or triple set-ups.

Those illustrations of the sides coming down are not what you thought they were... they are not every-day accesses. They are showing that you remove the panel or side, then bolt it up to another module (with a rubber gasket between). The ends fit together to form those complexes shown... so you only use one external door to access 15-20 vans.

They are weather-proof... they are used regardless of weather... snow, rain (how does 6 inches in 2 days sound*)...

I spent 5 years working inside them, while in the USMC... repairing the avionics from Marine aircraft.

They have been where the USMC has much of its support equipment since the early 1970s, allowing a squadron to pack up its support & repair capability and fly it all around the world, and have it up and running within hours-days.

In 1984, we packed up from MCAS Iwakuni, Japan and flew to NAS Cubi Point, Philippines*... stayed for 6 weeks, then returned (personal example).

*May/June in P.I. is the start of the rainy season


For Traveller use, the AC/heating units can be set up for internal mounting (should be much smaller at higher TL than the 7 these are), and you just make the end module be an airlock/decontamination station, and they will work in hazardous environments.

 

[Mithras]

B R A Z I I I I L L L L L !!!!!!!!!!!

Available in hundreds of designer colours to suit your discerning tastes*.

*Free imaginary prize to whoever first identifies the quote. Think "ducts".

 

[CosmicGamer]

They are weather-proof... they are used regardless of weather... snow, rain (how does 6 inches in 2 days sound*)...
*May/June in P.I. is the start of the rainy season

How about 10 inches in less than 24 hours? SEE THIS LINK

 

[BlackBat242]

As long as there is sufficient drainage, you are fine.

In Cubi Point, our complex was set up on the nice, flat concrete apron... a few dozen yards from the parked aircraft.

Having 2-3 inches of water standing over the whole area was common... despite there being large drainage ditches surrounding the apron, taxiways, & runway.

The day we loaded our vans into the C-141 Starlifters the water was covering the tops of my feet (in safety boots, about 4 inches)... and raining hard enough they nearly canceled the flights, even though there was no wind at all.

 

[far-trader]

I keep imagining I've seen the Advanced Base drawn out map style in some Traveller print product but can't recall where. I've looked through a few books without luck. Anyone else recall seeing it somewhere?

 

[Vile]

B R A Z I I I I L L L L L !!!!!!!!!!!

Got it in one. Now award yourself a scoop of green mush and pretend it's a steak dinner. :devil:

There's a modular bit I forgot to add: telescopic feet. Keeps the base out of the wet, and allows you to set it up on somewhat uneven terrain. You'll need some steps if it's really uneven, of course.

Blackbat: veerrry interesting ... I wonder if there are any indicative layouts of these containers which give an idea of the amount of working space and equipment volume inside. By the way, I assume these don't include quarters? Personnel don't normally merit the same standard of accommodation as expensive hardware.

 

[GypsyComet]

I keep imagining I've seen the Advanced Base drawn out map style in some Traveller print product but can't recall where. I've looked through a few books without luck. Anyone else recall seeing it somewhere?

There is one that is Cutter deployable (same shape as a Cutter Pod) in a very early JTAS. It was probably expanded upon in the Modular Cutter book and deckplan sets from SJG.

 

[Vile]

There is one that is Cutter deployable (same shape as a Cutter Pod) in a very early JTAS. It was probably expanded upon in the Modular Cutter book and deckplan sets from SJG.

It keeps coming back to that cutter module ... I can see what the next project is going to be.

 

[GypsyComet]

Well yes. Thirty dtons is quite a lot of space when you get down to it.

 

[samuelvss]

... you increase the pressure. .... saying it is going to be shooting air out so fast that it wont be practical. You would have to add a bunch of space for a system that dissipates the air in some way so that it isn't blowing things all over the room like a leaf blower.

If you disagree please give details of how you think it would work so that I can understand you.

First, I'm not proposing a duct size. I just said that Vile's walls were a rational right size, and gave some walking around numbers as examples of why they were. It is not an engineering challenge with WWII technology. The diffusers above every seat on commercial aircraft are one example of how a higher pressure HVAC system can be diffused quite simply.

Diffusion, like the thumb on the garden hose, is all about geometry. The diffuser is typically the size of the duct or smaller. A "bunch of space" is not necessary. :nonono: Not that a higher pressure HVAC system is even advisable; there's a lot of engineering involved. It is certainly possible, though, through flat ducts or higher pressure, and probably a dozen other methods involving technology that does not yet exist.

 

[samuelvss]

I keep imagining I've seen the Advanced Base drawn out map style in some Traveller print product but can't recall where. I've looked through a few books without luck. Anyone else recall seeing it somewhere?

There is an example at http://www.sff.net/people/kitsune/tr...ed cabin.png
on Peter's Traveller Page, citing JTAS # 6, pp. 35-6.

 

[samuelvss]

The floor frame slots inbetween. .

I am envisioning (back to my 4 dton container fetish), your framework, welded and hinged, so that the center two rows of four squares each are completely set up, while the outside two rows fold into this space. This makes the whole package 4 dtons. The unfolding could be a one man operation. Much quicker than the IKEA version, but half the dtons of the "no assembly required" version. I've got the geometry figured, but I do not have the patience, descriptive capacity, or graphics capability to show you.

Suffice it to say, the frame would be in the same shape, but folded in. :smirk: