It's too bad that Sprange didn't go after the 40K RPG license. Traveller 40K would've attracted a lot of new people.
Traveller renaissance
- Thread starter Blue Ghost
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It's too bad that Sprange didn't go after the 40K RPG license. Traveller 40K would've attracted a lot of new people.
ShawnDriscoll
SOC-14 1K
You mean another split in Traveller's customer base? Maybe to high a price to pay on both sides from doing that.
CT was never truly settingless - not in the same sense as, say, Savage Worlds or GURPS. It has a bunch of really strong setting tropes encoded in the rules, the same way D&D's PBH always does.
Savage Worlds and GURPS both have worked pretty hard to make their cores generic moderns and low-fantasy without major setting tropes encoded.
Most other generic cores haven't. (CORPS, Simply Roleplaying, and a couple others likewise.)
The CT core creates a specific trope set. Match those, it feels like Traveller. Don't, and it doesn't.
Possibly, but to me that's close to over analyzing the game's core. I think at its core it was essentially spacehips, guns and maybe a few worlds to explore or visit kind of game. I think that's what attracted a lot of players and fans, and from that the Imperium developed, or possibly got in the way depending on the POVs expressed here.
*back to the scout ship*
*back to the scout ship*
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MgT at least has options for non-traditional Traveller sci-fi tropes: psionic-powered jumpships, psion as a career, Mindjammer, etc.
And a couple of licensed publishers took the core rules and built whole new settings (Netherell, a fantasy world within known space) or new games entirely (Worlds Apart, complete Traveller fantasy game).
Still fringes of the Traveller landscape, and I bet most still think of the 3I even when thinking of MgT (either 1e or 2e).
Maybe someone will take CE and produce a true Sword and Planet game.
And a couple of licensed publishers took the core rules and built whole new settings (Netherell, a fantasy world within known space) or new games entirely (Worlds Apart, complete Traveller fantasy game).
Still fringes of the Traveller landscape, and I bet most still think of the 3I even when thinking of MgT (either 1e or 2e).
Maybe someone will take CE and produce a true Sword and Planet game.
Maybe someone will take CE and produce a true Sword and Planet game.
"Voyage to the Planet of Prehistoric Women" ... the RPG?
Or more generic?
I met Mimi Van Doren at a convention in 83. I think it was at the Holliday Inn off Van Ness in San Francisco. Nice lady.
Erm, are you sure you want that though?
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I wouldn't say no to a Mongoose Traveller or CE powered Fading Suns...
Blue Planet + would also be something I would like MgT or CE to do too (by + I mean discover more jump gates and so have a couple more worlds to explore).
Blue Planet + would also be something I would like MgT or CE to do too (by + I mean discover more jump gates and so have a couple more worlds to explore).
And see this does not include the versions in non-english language...
The Spanish translation, appeared both in hard and soft cover, was small (about 3000-5000, according one of the then member of Diseños Orbitales staff, he does not remember nowdays), but it has also been translated to other languages (at least German and Japanese)...
"Voyage to the Planet of Prehistoric Women" ... the RPG?
Or more generic?
I was thinking more Barsoom or Antares, but yes, something in that genre.
Interesting...I started toying with this, too. Then got distracted by my Warriors of the Red Planet - CE blend instead.
Yes, I may have missed some quantities here and there, and only have a vague sense that post-T4 Traveller went semi-dormant. But it apparently was enough so that Mongoose trumpeted their version as "Traveller is back, and better than ever!" (or something like that)
LeperColony
Traveller Card Game Dev Team
I think the Imperium definitely existed as a concept at the same time as Traveller's rules were coming together. It may not have sprung fully formed from Marc's head, but I do think it was a tandem development.
Dislike of the 3I and 1977 purity does seem to be popular at the moment, and that's fine if it makes people happy. But I think even in LBB 1-3, you can already see the Imperium between the lines.
I shrug my shoulders at it. I truly don't care either way, but I do like the setting, and think it would be great to write for. Whether the setting or the core mechanic attracts players, I have no idea, but when I do get a chance to play I like the free form approach without the NPC reaction table, and the vastness of the official setting. That's what I personally liked about it then, and that's what still keeps me here ... although perhaps not for much longer.
*back to the scout ship*
*EDIT*
What I find even more interesting are the poll results on this thread; http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=37436
If Traveller really is burgeoning, then how come there isn't more activity here? And why are most of the pollsters saying their first experience is with the 77 edition?
Well, okay, Mongoose has its own website, but it also seems like a lot of the people here are current or former military. So, either this site attracts older players who like the older version of the game, or there's a "hidden world" and fanbase that no one here on this thread is privy too, save for some of the newer and younger people. And my gut feeling on them is that they're not drawn to old school "explore space with a weapon at your hip" trope, but are part of a younger more superhero movie oriented generation, who don't have, or rather feel the draw of old school scifi.
Ergo I'm not sure the setting matters too much to them, or rather it's there, but doesn't yank on them like it did for older fans like me.
And that's just the way it is. So ... I don't know. Did they pick up the game after reading or hearing about the Imperium? I have no idea. But it doesn't seem prevalent in the rules when you first read them.
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ShawnDriscoll
SOC-14 1K
The younger players I know don't care for BBSs. Plus they're on their phones all the time. They and their friends are on social media sites.
creativehum
SOC-14 1K
Since I'm one of the people pushing for the enjoyment to be had from playing Traveller with the original rules, I feel compelled to reply to these statements.
First, here's an interview that took place with Marc Miller on forum. In the interview Miller says the following:
Make of that what you will. But all the digging I've done suggests that, in fact, the Imperium as a setting for Traveller came after the creation of the rules -- as Miller explicitly states above.
Second, I don't see anyone -- ever -- speaking about any sort of "purity" about the 1977 rules -- or any edition. (The only people who ever reference "purity" are the people talking about what other people are doing. Which should probably give everyone pause for a moment.) As I've said countless times I use the 1981 rules found in LBBs 1-3 as my base, and then add in things I think work better for the kind of game I want from the 1977 rules and The Traveller Book. If there's any "purity" going on I'm not aware of it.
Third, the reason I go back to the rules form 1977 and 1981 touches precisely on the first point: several of the implied setting details found in the 1977 and 1981 rules specifically contradict the tone and the feel of what would become the Third Imperium. That is, one needs to alter the rules from the 1977 edition drastically if one is going to produce the Third Imperium, and alter them slightly less drastically from the 1981 rules. This means that if one likes the implied setting details of the 1977 and 1981 editions of the game then the Third Imperium isn't a good fit because you can't make the Third Imperium from LBBs 1-3.
Thus, the point is, it really isn't a matter of "disliking" the Third Imperium but wanting something else. Is that really so hard to understand? It isn't about being against something. It is about being drawn to setting that isn't what the Third Imperium is.
Now obviously this is not that big a deal. I'll go off and have fun with my friends and you'll go off any have fun with your friends and whatever happens at our respective tables really can't bother the other.
But here is the clear and obvious point:
If one reads the actual text from the LBBS (specifically the 1981 books weighted toward the 1977 books) one finds a certain implied setting details. And for some of us that implied setting was awesome. It was free-wheeling, violent, full of off the beaten path worlds full of adventure, sparse government control, and plenty of room for travellers to find their way. By contrast, by the time 1981 rolls around, the Spinward Marches were full of megacorporation, bloodless bureaucrats, Imperial Red Zones that literally prevent adventurers from getting to worlds of adventure, and fleets that literally dwarf any ship the PCs might be crewing as a minnow stands in relation to a school of sharks.
That the Third Imperium got built out as a setting and people love it is awesome. That the promise of the kind of environment promised in Books 1-3 was lost while making the Third Imperium seems, at least to some of us, a shame.
Further, as the copy on the back of the boxes of the original rules state clearly (and Miller makes clear as well in the quote above), the purpose of the game is for the Referee to build an SF setting full of SF inspirations he can't wait to share with his players. This is why a solid chunk of Book 3 is devoted to making a setting. It is also why Book 0: An Introduction Traveller (1981) spends a significant amount of time discussing making a setting. Because the Little Black Books are there for the Referee to make the setting he wants to make.
Now, let me be clear: The Third Imperium is there, "and that's fine if it makes people happy." But some of us want something different when it comes to setting. In fact, some of us wants many different settings... settings as varied and exotic as our individual imaginations will allow.
Further: there is nothing "new" about this. Visit other sites that talk about Traveller and you'll find plenty of people who have been using the Traveller rules for years for setting that explicitly have nothing to do with the Third Imperium or GDW's OTU. Which means the folks playing the game are using as it is was designed to be used in the original rules. There's no honor or prize in this or anything. It's simply a fact -- some people want to play this way, and they do.
But again, luckily, what one person wants to do at a gaming table has no influence on what happens at another gaming table... so we're all good.
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Why would it split us? The 40K kiddies would have to use High Guard to design their ships. We'd get a new setting and alternative rules. I really can't think of a downside.
Why not? 40K is popular among the kiddies. Might as well get them to spend money on Traveller.
LeperColony
Traveller Card Game Dev Team
This isn't about any specific person. You enjoy a different universe, that's fine. More Travelling to you. In fact, it's more than fine, because many alternate universes are fascinating, and it's always fun to read about them.
But the Imperium board game came out earlier the same year. It may not have been directly connected to what would become the OTU, but it shows that the concepts were already percolating, even before the LBBs. The original Traveller rules already have built into them some of the central assumptions of the 3I, even at the LBB 1-3 stages.
I'm not the only one who sees the seeds of the setting right from the beginning. if it's important to you that the words Third Imperium don't show up in the first LBBs, again, more Travelling to you.
This is a matter of preference, so there's no right answer here. But what I've never understood about the LBB 1-3 movement is why it's so important to believe there was never any inkling of the 3I in the initial materials. So what if there were? You can still enjoy Traveller however you want.
This is why I refer to it as LBB 1-3 purity. There is a sentiment in some posts by some 1977 supporters, whether intentional or not, that they're somehow playing the "purest" version of the game, and that the 3I (as well as subsequent supplements, in particular High Guard) is some kind of subsequent heresy that ruined everything. I support Traveller. I don't care how people use it. I'm just curious why there seems to be genuine hostility towards the OTU with certain factions.
But the Imperium board game came out earlier the same year. It may not have been directly connected to what would become the OTU, but it shows that the concepts were already percolating, even before the LBBs. The original Traveller rules already have built into them some of the central assumptions of the 3I, even at the LBB 1-3 stages.
I'm not the only one who sees the seeds of the setting right from the beginning. if it's important to you that the words Third Imperium don't show up in the first LBBs, again, more Travelling to you.
This is a matter of preference, so there's no right answer here. But what I've never understood about the LBB 1-3 movement is why it's so important to believe there was never any inkling of the 3I in the initial materials. So what if there were? You can still enjoy Traveller however you want.
This is why I refer to it as LBB 1-3 purity. There is a sentiment in some posts by some 1977 supporters, whether intentional or not, that they're somehow playing the "purest" version of the game, and that the 3I (as well as subsequent supplements, in particular High Guard) is some kind of subsequent heresy that ruined everything. I support Traveller. I don't care how people use it. I'm just curious why there seems to be genuine hostility towards the OTU with certain factions.
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