Far from clear on that score.
And things have not gone well for reverse engineering for compatibility, either. (Sun v. Android.)
Traveller renaissance
- Thread starter Blue Ghost
- Start date
Far from clear on that score.
And things have not gone well for reverse engineering for compatibility, either. (Sun v. Android.)
MGT is not "CT+" - the feel in play is different; more different than MegaTraveller; on par with TNE or T4.
The OSR has rediscovered CT with a vengeance, and it's bringing in new players, too. Many of whom are dismissive of MgT. The question is, "how long until they mix-n-mat CE to the point that it is CT compatible?"
Traveller is not one fanbase, but about a dozen.
When I read MgT is felt like "corrected" Traveller. You've lost me on OSR.
Wouldn't "the feel" depend more on the referee than on the rule set?
It seems to me that it's already fairly compatible.
Can you list them for us? Collectors vs. active gamers? Fans of different versions? Old farts vs. young bucks?
creativehum
SOC-14 1K
A blunt question, but one in which I am not trying to be snarky at all:
Have you read the Classic Traveller rules lately? (And with this question I mean that actual text found within an actual book?)
And a follow up, to make it specific:
The Player Characters need to bluff their way past guards to get into a swanky palace at a noble's house on a world they are visiting.
- How might a Referee adjudicate this situation using the Classic Traveller rules?
- How might a Referee adjudicate this situation using the Mongoose Traveller rules?
in CT, yes. In MGT, no.
Only in as much as it requires only a little work to move stuff from CT to MGT; going the other way is a HUGE pain in the tuchus.
Broadly, 1 fanbase per edition, plus the overall OTU fanbase. THe OTU fanbase can be largely grouped into "All eras, Classic/T20 era, Dawn of the 3I era, TNE era, 4I era, and ISW era". Then there's the TNE and T4 subgroups of gearheads, and the Pocket Empires players. And then the boardgamers. And the literary fans (with books by Swycaffer, Gannon, and Miller to obsess over).
Why are there so many subforums here? Because the fans wanted them, and segregation was saner for the staff than inclusiveness in thread.Just look at who posts where...
Well, it sounds like Traveller is in good hands then (T5 notwithstanding).
When I saw dude's video the other night, and listened to his observations and spiel, to me, based on my perceptions here, it sounded like the lack of activity and consistency of people who post here was premised on a fading interest.
Yet it seemed curious to me because I keep hearing about how the game is thriving, and yet the activity on these boards is sporadic. When I joined way back in 2001 after you guys opened up shop, there was a steady trickle that turned into a flood of activity. Then it would die. Then it would heat up again.
But the one thing I noticed was that it was all veteran players. I remember all of ... what, three new young people who had just stumbled upon the game and wondered what it was about during this 16 year period.
Well, okay, so like lies, damn lies and statistics, to me, again just my perception, was that the system was just fading. And so when I saw that video, again to me, it seemed like there was a thought that Traveller was no longer even the niche game that it used to be. I don't see the reprints in game stores anymore, the GURPS line is no longer carried by SJGames, and based on killemall's game thread, it's like no one had heard of it unless you were in the late 30s to 60s age bracket.
Like I say, I shrug my shoulders at it. I've had fun with it, but felt morally obligated to start this thread to see what it's true status was.
I guess now I know.
When I saw dude's video the other night, and listened to his observations and spiel, to me, based on my perceptions here, it sounded like the lack of activity and consistency of people who post here was premised on a fading interest.
Yet it seemed curious to me because I keep hearing about how the game is thriving, and yet the activity on these boards is sporadic. When I joined way back in 2001 after you guys opened up shop, there was a steady trickle that turned into a flood of activity. Then it would die. Then it would heat up again.
But the one thing I noticed was that it was all veteran players. I remember all of ... what, three new young people who had just stumbled upon the game and wondered what it was about during this 16 year period.
Well, okay, so like lies, damn lies and statistics, to me, again just my perception, was that the system was just fading. And so when I saw that video, again to me, it seemed like there was a thought that Traveller was no longer even the niche game that it used to be. I don't see the reprints in game stores anymore, the GURPS line is no longer carried by SJGames, and based on killemall's game thread, it's like no one had heard of it unless you were in the late 30s to 60s age bracket.
Like I say, I shrug my shoulders at it. I've had fun with it, but felt morally obligated to start this thread to see what it's true status was.
I guess now I know.
Barsanuphius
SOC-12
Sir Ghost, I am not sure what you meant by this to my Chronicles of Riddick comment.
As someone a bit younger (well, 28, so I don't really feel very young anymore) than a lot of people here (at least that's what the polls told me) on the forums and being quite new to Traveller I want to tell you about my impressions:
First of all I come from Germany. Finding out about Traveller was no easy start. You want to get any edition of the game? No store has it in stock and only a few people know it even exists.
If you search for it you find mostly MgT (or wikipedia which shows that MgT and E5 are the newest editions) and a few information about other editions.
Searching for forums gives you this forum and the Mongoose forum - thats nearly all of it. Otherwise you find a few discussions about the game.
And if you look at drivethrurpg there are a lot of versions you
And I have to say one of the most disturbing things is seeing the CT-veterans and so on talking about Traveller. It reminded me of a grandfather telling his grandchildren that using a computer instead of a typewriter is totally insane and they should stick to the typewriter, because it's just better!
Looking at the FFE website confirms this suspicion - it looks like someone forgot that site years ago but left it online nonetheless. A similiar thought comes to mind when you look at this forum. It just looks old and looks like a bunch of old people talking about the good old days and how everything was better then.
That's just the impression I got at first and I think this might be a reason why younger people, if they find the game at all, might get repelled by Traveller or just want to stick to MgT. Luckily I am no person that gets repelled by things like that. And I think a forum like this is a great opportunity to get an overview and information from veterans.
By this I would say older versions have a bad image. Additionally Traveller 5 is horrible if you give it to most people new to Traveller or, even worse, to people starting their roleplaying-career at all. I too was quite overwhelmed by T5 and stopped reading at the combat section. It has quite a lot of nice ideas but it just looks like a bunch of great ideas that are not really connected to each other. In addition it was neither easy nor entertaining to read.
In comparison MgT is easy to start with, easier to obtain and doesn't give you the impression of being outdated. In contrast it seems to be up to date and might attract people new to it.
If you want to attract more people to Traveller and maybe get them to look into the older versions, you should start simple. People expect newer versions to be the newer ones for a reason. Because they believe they are updated, have refined rules and so on.
I don't want to discuss if this is the case or not. But I believe it's much easier to get new people hooked by telling them "This is the new version, it's easy to use and you might find it in a modern game store" instead of telling them "Well, the old days were the best. Try the edition that's 30 years old.".
The younger players have a different view of the game. It's hard enough to grasp the basic principles of Traveller that are different from other modern games. It just gets harder if you want to give them a game that, because of its age, differs in even more points from modern games.
First of all I come from Germany. Finding out about Traveller was no easy start. You want to get any edition of the game? No store has it in stock and only a few people know it even exists.
If you search for it you find mostly MgT (or wikipedia which shows that MgT and E5 are the newest editions) and a few information about other editions.
Searching for forums gives you this forum and the Mongoose forum - thats nearly all of it. Otherwise you find a few discussions about the game.
And if you look at drivethrurpg there are a lot of versions you
And I have to say one of the most disturbing things is seeing the CT-veterans and so on talking about Traveller. It reminded me of a grandfather telling his grandchildren that using a computer instead of a typewriter is totally insane and they should stick to the typewriter, because it's just better!
Looking at the FFE website confirms this suspicion - it looks like someone forgot that site years ago but left it online nonetheless. A similiar thought comes to mind when you look at this forum. It just looks old and looks like a bunch of old people talking about the good old days and how everything was better then.
That's just the impression I got at first and I think this might be a reason why younger people, if they find the game at all, might get repelled by Traveller or just want to stick to MgT. Luckily I am no person that gets repelled by things like that. And I think a forum like this is a great opportunity to get an overview and information from veterans.
By this I would say older versions have a bad image. Additionally Traveller 5 is horrible if you give it to most people new to Traveller or, even worse, to people starting their roleplaying-career at all. I too was quite overwhelmed by T5 and stopped reading at the combat section. It has quite a lot of nice ideas but it just looks like a bunch of great ideas that are not really connected to each other. In addition it was neither easy nor entertaining to read.
In comparison MgT is easy to start with, easier to obtain and doesn't give you the impression of being outdated. In contrast it seems to be up to date and might attract people new to it.
If you want to attract more people to Traveller and maybe get them to look into the older versions, you should start simple. People expect newer versions to be the newer ones for a reason. Because they believe they are updated, have refined rules and so on.
I don't want to discuss if this is the case or not. But I believe it's much easier to get new people hooked by telling them "This is the new version, it's easy to use and you might find it in a modern game store" instead of telling them "Well, the old days were the best. Try the edition that's 30 years old.".
The younger players have a different view of the game. It's hard enough to grasp the basic principles of Traveller that are different from other modern games. It just gets harder if you want to give them a game that, because of its age, differs in even more points from modern games.
QuickLink Interactive, founded by Hunter Gordon.
I'm curious what you think of our favorite role playing game; whether it's good as is, or if it needs updating, even the Mongoose version.
Welf; that's too bad. To me it's an old favorite hobby and passtime. I played a few years back, and before that the game was still on bookstore shelves, but appeared to be fading. The admin here says that Mongoose has brought in new blood, but then you say you can't find it anywhere.
Oh well.
I'm headed back to my scout ship for a while.
Oh well.
I'm headed back to my scout ship for a while.
How does 13mann sell their products?
Mostly PDFs or Online Books or in gaming stores?
From what I have seen, they do a good job with their English translations, so I assume that their German products are pretty good.
Personally, I have gone to almost 100% digital. It is just too convenient to store and transport all of my books on a thumb drive.
@atpollard:
I could not find any of the printed books in any game store - and I checked quite a few. You can buy directly from them, but to do so you have to know Traveller exists.
I bought the MgT 1ed pdf in german from them but prefer the english version. The translation is okay, but some terms are translated in a strange way and don't feel right for me.
I could not find any of the printed books in any game store - and I checked quite a few. You can buy directly from them, but to do so you have to know Traveller exists.
I bought the MgT 1ed pdf in german from them but prefer the english version. The translation is okay, but some terms are translated in a strange way and don't feel right for me.
creativehum
SOC-14 1K
I suppose I am confused as to what the expectations of sales are.
The top seller RPG is, and will remain, Dungeons & Dragons. And 5th edition is doing better than all previous editions of D&D. There's nothing to compare it to. It is the game people think of when they think "RPG" -- and nothing is going to change that.
Then there are several contenders. Pathfinder from Paizo, and Star Wars from Fantasy Flight Games.
And after that...? About 800 other RPGs. With new RGP products being launched on Kickstarter every month.
On my shelf I currently have:
A few things to consider:
Those are just the games on my shelf. There are countless games that I don't own.
I could happily pull any one of those games off the shelf and run them for my Monday night group. Any one of them. And yet I can only run one at a time. Even the games I own and love are competing for each other for attention to get played. If I am playing one it means more than a dozen games I own are not being played.
Many of those games are game many of you have never heard of. Which is sort of the point! How many games are out there right now? Lots! How many games are worthy of play? Lots!
On top of those games I have a ton of fantastic supplements and adventures I could be using with many of them. Particularly for the Lamentations and Basic D&D variants I have enough modules and setting material for years of play. YEARS. If I were to run King Arthur Pendragon with the Great Pendragon Campaign for my group once a week that would be two years of play right there. Two years!
Each is a great game. Each of those games offers up all sorts of different play styles and kinds of fun. If I'm playing one I'm not playing another one. And that list is crazy incomplete. I have friends I game with who have shelves full of games they are playing with other groups that I don't own and have not played yet!
With all this in mind exactly what are some people here expecting? That Traveller (as a game? as a setting?) suddenly sweep away all the competition and become the dominate RPG that everyone is talking about? In what sense? in what way?
Here is a think about RPGs -- at least here is a thing about RPGs for me:
RPGs exist in play. It doesn't matter when a game came out. It doesn't matter how old or new a game is. It doesn't matter how much people yack about an RPG online. What matters is gathering up some friends and playing the game. Then the game is alive.
It is like a book. The Odyssey can sit inert on a shelf for years. But the moment I pick it up and read it, it is alive again.
I believe the same holds true for RPGs. And there are so many games right now, with a limit on the number of players and the number of hours in any lifetime that can be played that of course most people are not playing any given game. Of course most people are not playing Traveller (in any version) because most games on any given night are not being played.
But if one wants to play a game, you pull the game out, you gather some players and you play. (And there are now many, many methods of gathering up players for play!)
Traveller can't "make a comeback." And it is in no need of renaissance. It never went away. Different versions that deliver different kinds of play and different kinds of fun are readily available right now. What people are talking about on a website or what number of units are being sold in a hobby shop has nothing to do with whether you, or you, or me wants to sit down and play the game with friends.
There are people playing Original Dungeons & Dragons right now. There are people playing RuneQuest 2nd Edition right now. There are people playing Mongoose Traveller, Fate, and Dungeon World right now. And that is because someone set up a game and people showed up and the game happened.
To expect more... to expect somehow that everyone is going to care about what you care about given all the options and limits on time is a kind of craziness. Because at the end of the day when it comes to RPGs only one thing matters:
You pick up a game you want to play. You gather some folks. You play.
The top seller RPG is, and will remain, Dungeons & Dragons. And 5th edition is doing better than all previous editions of D&D. There's nothing to compare it to. It is the game people think of when they think "RPG" -- and nothing is going to change that.
Then there are several contenders. Pathfinder from Paizo, and Star Wars from Fantasy Flight Games.
And after that...? About 800 other RPGs. With new RGP products being launched on Kickstarter every month.
On my shelf I currently have:
- Lamentations of the Flame Princess
- Classic Traveller
- Burning Wheel
- RuneQuest 2nd Edition
- HeroQuest in Glorantha
- King Arthur Pendragon
- Primetime Adventures
- The Mountain Witch
- Sorcerer
- Sorcerer & Sword
- Mouse Guard
- Hollowpoint
- Blades of the Iron Throne
- The Nightmares Underneath
- Apocalypse World
- Whitehack
A few things to consider:
Those are just the games on my shelf. There are countless games that I don't own.
I could happily pull any one of those games off the shelf and run them for my Monday night group. Any one of them. And yet I can only run one at a time. Even the games I own and love are competing for each other for attention to get played. If I am playing one it means more than a dozen games I own are not being played.
Many of those games are game many of you have never heard of. Which is sort of the point! How many games are out there right now? Lots! How many games are worthy of play? Lots!
On top of those games I have a ton of fantastic supplements and adventures I could be using with many of them. Particularly for the Lamentations and Basic D&D variants I have enough modules and setting material for years of play. YEARS. If I were to run King Arthur Pendragon with the Great Pendragon Campaign for my group once a week that would be two years of play right there. Two years!
Each is a great game. Each of those games offers up all sorts of different play styles and kinds of fun. If I'm playing one I'm not playing another one. And that list is crazy incomplete. I have friends I game with who have shelves full of games they are playing with other groups that I don't own and have not played yet!
With all this in mind exactly what are some people here expecting? That Traveller (as a game? as a setting?) suddenly sweep away all the competition and become the dominate RPG that everyone is talking about? In what sense? in what way?
Here is a think about RPGs -- at least here is a thing about RPGs for me:
RPGs exist in play. It doesn't matter when a game came out. It doesn't matter how old or new a game is. It doesn't matter how much people yack about an RPG online. What matters is gathering up some friends and playing the game. Then the game is alive.
It is like a book. The Odyssey can sit inert on a shelf for years. But the moment I pick it up and read it, it is alive again.
I believe the same holds true for RPGs. And there are so many games right now, with a limit on the number of players and the number of hours in any lifetime that can be played that of course most people are not playing any given game. Of course most people are not playing Traveller (in any version) because most games on any given night are not being played.
But if one wants to play a game, you pull the game out, you gather some players and you play. (And there are now many, many methods of gathering up players for play!)
Traveller can't "make a comeback." And it is in no need of renaissance. It never went away. Different versions that deliver different kinds of play and different kinds of fun are readily available right now. What people are talking about on a website or what number of units are being sold in a hobby shop has nothing to do with whether you, or you, or me wants to sit down and play the game with friends.
There are people playing Original Dungeons & Dragons right now. There are people playing RuneQuest 2nd Edition right now. There are people playing Mongoose Traveller, Fate, and Dungeon World right now. And that is because someone set up a game and people showed up and the game happened.
To expect more... to expect somehow that everyone is going to care about what you care about given all the options and limits on time is a kind of craziness. Because at the end of the day when it comes to RPGs only one thing matters:
You pick up a game you want to play. You gather some folks. You play.
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"I'm not really a passive-aggressive jerk. I just play one on forums."
Not since I downloaded Filz's latest comparison about nine days ago.
I have no idea how a MgT ref would adjudicate it, nor do I care. Having actually played Traveller in '77-78, I can tell you that most of us would've winged it. It would be almost entirely up to what the players did. If they did something stupid, there'd be a firefight. If one of them gave a brilliant roleplaying performance, they would succeed. Either way, there wouldn't be any dice rolled, so it wouldn't matter which rules you were using.
"Prisoner transfer from Block one-one-three-eight."
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
I spend a fair amount of time patrolling the Reddit Traveller forum, which gives me a feel for the 'new generation' and their interests. I know others from this board do likewise.
Most questions are from MgT players, more 2E as that edition gets disseminated. Many questions are the same, either 'how does this game play especially without levels' or 'I hear Traveller has a lethal combat system, tips please'.
If they have made it to the Reddit subforum they have already self-selected as being interested so that doesn't really answer the question as to what the visibility or image is of the game in the wider RPG hobby.
I often give a standard answer, pointing them to MgT1 if they want a wide selection of modernized Traveller, MgT2 if they want to buy into a line that is in print, CE for cheap try it out, FFE CD-ROMs for big play value for the dollar, T5 and other editions for idea/mechanic mining.
Most questions are from MgT players, more 2E as that edition gets disseminated. Many questions are the same, either 'how does this game play especially without levels' or 'I hear Traveller has a lethal combat system, tips please'.
If they have made it to the Reddit subforum they have already self-selected as being interested so that doesn't really answer the question as to what the visibility or image is of the game in the wider RPG hobby.
I often give a standard answer, pointing them to MgT1 if they want a wide selection of modernized Traveller, MgT2 if they want to buy into a line that is in print, CE for cheap try it out, FFE CD-ROMs for big play value for the dollar, T5 and other editions for idea/mechanic mining.
creativehum
SOC-14 1K
Whatever, dude. I was honestly trying to find out where you were coming from. And now I know.
"As long as the Referee never uses the rules the differences in the rules don't matter."
To which I can only reply, "You're right!"
Depends on how much structure you want. I prefer to roleplay. You apparently prefer to roll dice.
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