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Traveller Theme 1: Proto-Traveller

Hmmm....The Coyotes of Space....perhaps a Vargar varient....

Given the length of time Coyotes have been around, well in excess of 300,000 years, can you be sure that the Vargr do not also include Coyotes? One characteristic of Coyotes is the ability to adapt to a wide range of environments, including that of downtown Chicago.
 
It's a possibility - the CT AM mentions that only one sample was taken from Earth, but the composition of this group could include the various canine type species around 300,000years ago.

Since aliens have been brought up - a proto-Traveller setting Imperium can be made a bit smaller, the alien races can be repositioned so you can include them in games.

It was a minor niggle but the Hive federation and the K'Kree being so far from the Spinward marches made including them a bit difficult.
 
I've added a short paragraph noting that the Proto-Imperium had an open border. I'm not sure that's necessarily true, but every time I think of Proto-Traveller I think of unexplored sectors in my backyard.
 
I've added a short paragraph noting that the Proto-Imperium had an open border. I'm not sure that's necessarily true, but every time I think of Proto-Traveller I think of unexplored sectors in my backyard.

Well, you've already made Proto-Traveller a gazillion times more appealing to this guy, at least.
 
In my proto-Traveller setting the Spinward marches are the very edge of Imperial space. Beyond its borders unknown area await exploration.

I have the First Frontier War still taking place in the 600s, but it is a result of the 'colonisation' fleet expanding too close to the Zhodani that kicks off the war.

The eventual success of this fleet and the civil war that follow are actually a Zhodani intelligence coup to foster the rise of psionics within the Imperium and hence a more stable Imperium in the long run. Unfortunately the psionic suppressions are a result of Imperial Intelligence eventually becoming aware of this plot.

The upshot is that the Spinward Marches have only been colonised by the Imperium in the last 400-500 years, using the islands of high TL worlds to slowly spread Imperial influence.
 
In my proto-Traveller setting the Spinward marches are the very edge of Imperial space. Beyond its borders unknown area await exploration.

I have the First Frontier War still taking place in the 600s, but it is a result of the 'colonisation' fleet expanding too close to the Zhodani that kicks off the war.

The eventual success of this fleet and the civil war that follow are actually a Zhodani intelligence coup to foster the rise of psionics within the Imperium and hence a more stable Imperium in the long run. Unfortunately the psionic suppressions are a result of Imperial Intelligence eventually becoming aware of this plot.

The upshot is that the Spinward Marches have only been colonised by the Imperium in the last 400-500 years, using the islands of high TL worlds to slowly spread Imperial influence.

I would eagerly play in this setting. :)
 
That is currently my debate for my Proto-Traveller MTU. Do I use canon races (including human variants and empires) and merely adapt them? Or do I go with entirely new races and polities?

Pragmatically, the idea of ganking and adapting as much as possible is attractive. But I'm also attracted to the idea of a totally "new" setting that isn't beholden to anything from canon.

D.
 
maybe he'll start a game here on the pbp boards.

I've been having trouble keeping up with pbps of late. Though if he did I might try for a while.

Though I realized that Supplement 4 would be a good fit for Proto-Traveller, as a good way to expand on the options that "Other" could be. (That and I'd prefer not to play a non-military/scout/merchant that has "-1 SOC" as part of its personal development tables. :devil: )
 
That is currently my debate for my Proto-Traveller MTU. Do I use canon races (including human variants and empires) and merely adapt them? Or do I go with entirely new races and polities?
Another thing you can do with proto-traveller is reduce the size of the Imperium so all the canon races can actually be used - in the OTU how do K'kree and Hivers turn up regularly in the Spinward Marches?

Pragmatically, the idea of ganking and adapting as much as possible is attractive. But I'm also attracted to the idea of a totally "new" setting that isn't beholden to anything from canon.

D.
I use all of the T2300 aliens IMPTU as well :)

As to a completely 'new' setting - that is exactly what Traveller was meant for, make up your own setting and have fun with it. The OTU didn't use the rules as written.
 
I've been having trouble keeping up with pbps of late.

well I certainly couldn't keep up with atpollard's game. his story lines are soap-opera elaborate and it would take me several hours just to figure out how to start to write a post up to his level.
 
But I'm also attracted to the idea of a totally "new" setting that isn't beholden to anything from canon.
an awful lot of work. start small.

Quint,

There is an often stated belief that somehow the setting material of the OTU will save the Referee a lot of time. I do not agree with that belief.

The 1977 rules suggested starting with one or two subsectors, which would provide "years of play." Which is probably accurate.

Creating a new setting inspired by the direct passions of the Referee can't possibly be more work than fleshing out the abstract data that most of the OTU consists of, or the work involved with sorting out all the contradictions and confusion baked into the canon material in order to figure out what the official setting actually is.

The tricks is to remember that while space is big, your setting of play need not be. The trick to remember is that an interstellar government you create might be huge, your setting of playneed not be.

If you focus on one subsector to start, you can start small. You should start small. You focus on a few worlds (perhaps a cluster) and grow out. Imply what you wish that is beyond those worlds or that first subsector. But don't worry about sorting it all out. The setting can grow.

What you need is enough to engage the Players via their Player Characters. If they are on one world, and there are interesting opportunities before them and threats chasing them, then they will be engaged -- right there on that world. Even if there are countless worlds around countless stars in other star systems, at that moment, there's enough fun for an evening of play right there on that single world.

With a single subsector you will have approximately 40 worlds to explore and adventure in. That's a lot of gaming.

The original rules were explicit about this. There is wisdom in it.

As Mike said, the rules were explicitly written to build this kind of play. Yes, it is work. But really, it is no more work (and in my view less work) than trying to unfold a setting that doens't quite turn you on and make it something you love and can't wait to share with your friends.

Start with a cluster of worlds, just six to ten, in a given subsector, and see what happens from there.
 
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Creating a new setting inspired by the direct passions of the Referee can't possibly be more work than fleshing out the abstract data that most of the OTU consists of

(laugh) yeah, sitting over that empty hex, 2d6 in hand, ain't all that hard is it?

if the game itself never goes beyond your local setting, sure, it's about the same. but unless you're building an isolated "kingdom of a thousand li" surrounded by the empty wilderness and dark ages of time, that larger setting of "abstract data" can be handy.

while space is big, your setting of play need not be.

bingo that.

I'll amend my previous post of "start small" to "large general setting, start small specifics". one of traveller's limitations - jump - helps here. you only deal with one world at a time, so start with one world at a time. say, glisten / new rome. nice yard, have access to a starter ship, want to trade there's plenty of smaller worlds all around, if you want the big city there's glisten close by, or if you want the wilderness you can go lead out to five sisters, one world at a time, determine it as you go. go big or stay small, your choice.
 
if the game itself never goes beyond your local setting, sure, it's about the same. but unless you're building an isolated "kingdom of a thousand li" surrounded by the empty wilderness and dark ages of time, that larger setting of "abstract data" can be handy.

I don't think I understand this.

Are you suggesting that if one builds a setting consisting of one or two subsectors, that those one or two subsectors must contain the core polity within them?

If you are suggesting that, and I'm not sure you are, let me be clear that was not the intent of my post.

Book 3 of the 1977 editions says, "Initially, one or two sub-sectors should be quite enough for years of adventure (each sub-sector has, on the average, 40 worlds)."

Does this mean that an entire civilization has to be squeezed into that one subsector? Of course not.

Nor is there any reason to assume that the setting of play is the same area of space where the Player Characters are from.

That is, the Player Characters could be from an empire of 11,000 worlds, but the subsector the Refree builds for play is at the edges of this empire. Or beyond it.

Or the subsector could be part of the border that runs between two interstellar entities in conflict. This portion of a border could well be a "no man's land" between the polities which knows that's a war is coming. Or the boundary could be the clash of these two polities, literally with the worlds being torn apart by war.

Or the subsector the Referee choose to focus on could be a section of space rising up against the larger interstellar empire.

Or the subsector could be focused on one world that has just regained Jump Drive technology after a long night, with the worlds around it still cut off from Interstellar Travel and trade just beginning once more across the stars with civilizations of varying technology and resources.

That is, the variety of the kinds of situations and environments can be quite varied. And there is no reason to assume that everything is crammed into that subsector. That subsector can be the focus point of a much larger environment that the Refree must dream up, but not flesh out fully -- since the PCs won't be interacting with that larger, "off-screen," environment.

In a post I wrote on the subject I used "The Lord of the Rings" as an example. The world of Middle-Earth is a big place... but the story of the "The Lord of the Rings" focuses on only a geographically small chunk of the world. In the same way, a subsector for the start of a Traveller campaign can easily be a focused selection of area that implies a much larger campaign area.

***

But I am drifting far afield of the purpose of this thread. If there's more conversation to have this, I'll gladly start another thread.

I do think this does touch this thread, however. The question of what the Spinward Marches is like, as a "slice" of the Imperium, is something many people have different thoughts about and desires about.
 
But I am drifting far afield of the purpose of this thread. If there's more conversation to have this, I'll gladly start another thread.

I do think this does touch this thread, however. The question of what the Spinward Marches is like, as a "slice" of the Imperium, is something many people have different thoughts about and desires about.

Please do, I think that at least a couple of us would enjoy the topic. :)

D.
 
Creativehum, I think I see a point in the statement about the 'larger universe'.

In the same sense that say an outback village in the Third World can be it's eternal self, but iPhone's are arriving and thus they are being affected by this United States and computer/comms revolution even though they may have the vaguest of ideas about it all.

Another concept might be that the Travellers are experiencing a sort of childhood to adulthood maturation about the nature of the universe they are living in.

They only know about a few of the worlds they come from and travelled between before, but now are seeing a wider worldview (galaxyview?) and become aware of why things are the way they are, and maybe some things they want to change.

The sooner the ref 'knows'/decides about the larger backstory, the more it can be entwined with foreshadowing, and bigger adventures can be built.
 
Rather than trying to address people individually, I'm just going to make a couple of comments in general.

I've been playing Traveller since the early 80's, my collection is large and I suffered from a bad case of "complete the set" for years. Most of that time has been played in a version of the OTU that would be at least semi-recognizable to other Traveller players - Spinward Marches (or PP or JG sectors), the normal tech tree, etc. Now I have often generously "borrowed" from other sources at times to supplement the rich canon history and make the OTU MTU.

My observation is that while the conflicting versions of the OTU have been a bar to entry for some of my players, I've really reached the point with the publication of AotI that the conflicting versions of the OTU have finally reached a level where the OYU has too high a bar of entry for me to try and run it in anything resembling canon.

That said, I love the OTU and many of it's elements (and I have lots and lots of books to use data from). I've run a fantasy campaign for many years using the same campaign world - that's a lot f work. The appeal of the OYU used to be "I can just use it as written" - and that just isn't as easy as it seems like it should or could be.

Plus, while TNE didn't kill my love of the game, and T5 didn't - though the BBB reminds me more of a professional programming and DBA guide than a rulebook (and certainly isn't fun to read like so many of the other Traveller rulebooks have been) - after I invested in MgT (because I like rules and the supplements) the prospect of MgT2E has finally broken me of any desire to "run the latest version" - I'm not poor, but I'm just sick to death of spending more and more money on systems that aren't actually broken, but get re-written and repackaged as if they were.

Thus, my interest in Proto-Traveller, a very much "back-to-basics" and "back-to-the-beginning" of the game. I've been reading Creativehum's blog for awhile now and love the observations and comments there. My own style of world-building means that I am far more comfortable with a certainly level of "macro-information" in had so that I can create verisimilitude with greater ease - but I've slowly been building out ideas around "the Marato Quadrant" as a rough area of space, on the bleeding edge of the an Imperium, with elements of the Comsentient Alliance, the I'Sred*Ni Heptad, and others vie for superiority under the looming threat of the Raith Dominion while the players start at Prometheus Station, working for the Amaranth Foundation and dealing with the obscure motives of the Zhodani Transhumans, the threat of the Sang Brotherhood of corsairs, and try not to get caught between the ongoing tradewar between SuSAG and it's local competitors...

Blah blah blah

Like so many other things the problem is time - and finding the right rules set that my players can buy (or be handed legally and easily) with ease.

D.
 
Creativehum, I think I see a point in the statement about the 'larger universe'.

In the same sense that say an outback village in the Third World can be it's eternal self, but iPhone's are arriving and thus they are being affected by this United States and computer/comms revolution even though they may have the vaguest of ideas about it all.

Another concept might be that the Travellers are experiencing a sort of childhood to adulthood maturation about the nature of the universe they are living in.

They only know about a few of the worlds they come from and travelled between before, but now are seeing a wider worldview (galaxyview?) and become aware of why things are the way they are, and maybe some things they want to change.

The sooner the ref 'knows'/decides about the larger backstory, the more it can be entwined with foreshadowing, and bigger adventures can be built.

The notion that you are proposing -- that the setting or the PCs are "naive" in some way is certainly a possibility, but that's generally not what I'm talking about.

I apologize for this, but I was finishing up a long post that the browser ate. I will make this brief:

Looking at the rules of original Traveller, one can look at the dangers of space travel, the difficulties of space travel, the rules for trade, the rules for how mail is delivered, and make a 1:1 anology of the setting of play (that is, where the PCs adventure) being a spot in the U.S. Territories before statehood, or areas of India under the control of British trading companies during the age of sail, or exploration down the Nile into Africa.

packet_schooner.jpg

-- The Original Free Trader


Thus (again, as a direct anology), the PCs are former members of trained armed services (the Union, the Confederation, the British Empire) who head off to exotic lands in search of adventure, exploration, and fortune.

In this clear cut anology formed simply by reading the original rules, the subsector the Referee builds, then, might be a chunk of territory in the Punjab (as an anology). The PCs are not from Indian, nor naive about the worlds. They have TRAVELLED TO these lands (or mustered out there) and decided to make their fortunes away from society. They are British subjects making their way in a new world.

Again, reading the original rules of Traveller, before the introduction of any OTU material, makes this setup for play almost impossible to ignore, and almost a default setup for play.

The Empire is thousands of miles away, after months of travel. The adventure -- the setting of play that the Referee creates-- is in India.

The point is the Refree does't have to map all of India, Europe, and Great Britain to have adventures with former soldiers in a section of the Punjab. He doesn't need to deal with the royal politics and intrigue happening in London. He doesn't have to dig through countless Wikipedia entries about the royal lineage. The empire "back that way" is implied and suggested. We don't need to know the name of every king and queen going back 800 years, because that has little to do with all the cool adventure stuff right in front of us to play with at the table in the setting the Referee worked up.

What he needs to do is dig up some interesting tidbits about colonial India. He'll want details about the British trading companies, competitors from other countries. Adventure ideas from the local landscape. He needs to map out broadly the area of the campaign (in this case, a section of India). He needs to make a list of locations of ancient temples full of gold, assassin cults, other British treasure hunters, villages in need of mercenaries to protect them, and so on. That's the focus. That what he needs to prep.

In the same way the Referee for Traveller can make up a subsector far from the remote centralized government without having to a) deal with a map the whole centralized government and all it controls; and b) obsess about every detail about that centralized government... Because the adventure is happening on these worlds in the subsector, far from the centralized government.

Does that make sense?
 
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