:rofl:
Looks more like a Reindeer to me. Vargr should be very dog like actually.
But hey maybe the ancients did Reindeer too. We could call these:
"Reingr"
Since Vargr is old norse for Wolf... how about the old norse for Reindeer: Hreinn
Vargr Pre-Preview
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Since Vargr is old norse for Wolf... how about the old norse for Reindeer: Hreinn
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
I'd say that anything would be possible with a genetically altered species like the Vargr, including antlers, but for any sort of game I would run I would stick more to a "Classic" model of the Vargr not having antlers and not being burlier than a human. This to me just looks like one of many in a long line of interpretations of the "Vargr" creature. For me, tho, a Vargr is what is depicted on the JTAS cover that featured them.
From a design angle, I probably would have gone more exposed bone ridges than antlers and dropped the Tattoo idea for something more alien like weird fur dyeing, a woad like alternative.
I dont see what all the hubbub is about. In some books you got Vargr that look pretty consistent, then you have ones that look like Marmaduke like in the GT book interior art, and then you even got one that looks like a raccoon like on the cover of Vilani and Vargr. So who knows?
From a design angle, I probably would have gone more exposed bone ridges than antlers and dropped the Tattoo idea for something more alien like weird fur dyeing, a woad like alternative.
I dont see what all the hubbub is about. In some books you got Vargr that look pretty consistent, then you have ones that look like Marmaduke like in the GT book interior art, and then you even got one that looks like a raccoon like on the cover of Vilani and Vargr. So who knows?
Ok, like many things Traveller, I think a story can explain away the inconsistencies with this Vargr pic.
Drater the Vargr was invited by his clan to the annual Vargmas celebration on Lair (Vargmas being an ancient Vargr holiday of mayhem and frolicking adapted by Vargr centuries before after returing from a pilgrimmage to Terra).
Drater was known for two things - abuse of alcohol and abuse of a crude local combat drug known as Vargroids. Vargroid abuse was responsible for his mutant level of physique for a Vargr too which he was often heckled. Alcohol abuse was responsible for Drater's unconsciousness only half-way through the Vargmas celebration.
Hours later, Drater awoke to a splitting headache. At first, he thought it was only his usual hangover. Then he noticed he had been adorned by his so called friends using several of the Vargmas decorations lying about. A pair of reindeer antlers had been stappled to his head, and a red marker had apparently been used to scribble remarks in Old Vargr about his face and clothing which translated to various phrases such as, "Kitty Lover" and "My mother eats milkbones". Arising from his resting place with a beating staple induced headache, an alert party goer snapped the photo below.
Drater the Vargr was invited by his clan to the annual Vargmas celebration on Lair (Vargmas being an ancient Vargr holiday of mayhem and frolicking adapted by Vargr centuries before after returing from a pilgrimmage to Terra).
Drater was known for two things - abuse of alcohol and abuse of a crude local combat drug known as Vargroids. Vargroid abuse was responsible for his mutant level of physique for a Vargr too which he was often heckled. Alcohol abuse was responsible for Drater's unconsciousness only half-way through the Vargmas celebration.
Hours later, Drater awoke to a splitting headache. At first, he thought it was only his usual hangover. Then he noticed he had been adorned by his so called friends using several of the Vargmas decorations lying about. A pair of reindeer antlers had been stappled to his head, and a red marker had apparently been used to scribble remarks in Old Vargr about his face and clothing which translated to various phrases such as, "Kitty Lover" and "My mother eats milkbones". Arising from his resting place with a beating staple induced headache, an alert party goer snapped the photo below.
ThunderChilde
SOC-13
Oh, yeah, right there, that one actually stung, Touche Hans, well placed
I thought you had promised Drater never to tell that story ...
o::rofl:
Oh, this thread was certainly good for the Vargr jokes! Thanks guys!
And for those who haven't read the Aslan thread and haven't figured it out yet, yes, it's a joke. It started in the other thread and Matt was kind enough to give us a pic to make our day. Also funny are the people seriously (or at least seemingly seriously) discussing Vargr with antlers.
Just in case MgT might be serious about taking suggestions and opinions though, yeah, this guy looks too beefy to me, but with a good explanation (see my recent comment in the Aslan thread), this would look fine to me. Something along the lines of: Humans come in many shapes and sizes, so why not Vargr? This would not be a typical one, but a warrior as described could easily bulk himself up (esp. if he used Vargroids or Weight Gain 4000). Personally I'd love to see more of the wide range of Vargr body types, from the beefy warriors and weight-lifters (Arfnold?), to the skinny tech-guy, to little kids, to overweight, swill-guzzling couch-potato vargr. If pictures were presented this way, I think that it'd add a lot to their realism, and even provide character ideas (I love them for that). What about a vargr scientist or doctor wearing glasses? Man I wish I could draw. I just so have this picture in my mind of the beer-belly vargr sitting on the couch with a broken bottle of swill (toilet water?), watching the holo, wearing a dirty t-shirt too small for him, and yelling for his wife to bring him some food. Come on, it'd be a great opportunity to get away with using the word bit... :devil:
Oh, this thread was certainly good for the Vargr jokes! Thanks guys!
And for those who haven't read the Aslan thread and haven't figured it out yet, yes, it's a joke. It started in the other thread and Matt was kind enough to give us a pic to make our day. Also funny are the people seriously (or at least seemingly seriously) discussing Vargr with antlers.
Just in case MgT might be serious about taking suggestions and opinions though, yeah, this guy looks too beefy to me, but with a good explanation (see my recent comment in the Aslan thread), this would look fine to me. Something along the lines of: Humans come in many shapes and sizes, so why not Vargr? This would not be a typical one, but a warrior as described could easily bulk himself up (esp. if he used Vargroids or Weight Gain 4000). Personally I'd love to see more of the wide range of Vargr body types, from the beefy warriors and weight-lifters (Arfnold?), to the skinny tech-guy, to little kids, to overweight, swill-guzzling couch-potato vargr. If pictures were presented this way, I think that it'd add a lot to their realism, and even provide character ideas (I love them for that). What about a vargr scientist or doctor wearing glasses? Man I wish I could draw. I just so have this picture in my mind of the beer-belly vargr sitting on the couch with a broken bottle of swill (toilet water?), watching the holo, wearing a dirty t-shirt too small for him, and yelling for his wife to bring him some food. Come on, it'd be a great opportunity to get away with using the word bit... :devil:
saundby
SOC-14 1K
Vargr Breeds.
Doxie vargr, Chihuahua vargr, Saint Bernard belter vargr, "Bitchen-Frisky" vargr, Dobie vargr, you name it. Think of the art, the equipment, the societies! Then add special rules for mutts. Want a Chihuahua/Great Dane mix? Consult the handy charts.
Could be a whole line of supplements here.
"Oooh, gotta get Vargr Prison Planet! It's got the German Shepherd rules and chargen!"
Throw in antlers and body-shaping drugs and nobody'll ever play humanti ever again.
"I got a giant-growthed weightlifter Aussie Shepherd/Sheepdog mix with three terms in Marines. Did I mentioned he's got a full size Irish Elk rack? He's melee-4 with those suckers in zero-g, baby! Woof, woof, woof! That's my other dog impression, uh-huh."
Doxie vargr, Chihuahua vargr, Saint Bernard belter vargr, "Bitchen-Frisky" vargr, Dobie vargr, you name it. Think of the art, the equipment, the societies! Then add special rules for mutts. Want a Chihuahua/Great Dane mix? Consult the handy charts.
Could be a whole line of supplements here.
"Oooh, gotta get Vargr Prison Planet! It's got the German Shepherd rules and chargen!"
Throw in antlers and body-shaping drugs and nobody'll ever play humanti ever again.
"I got a giant-growthed weightlifter Aussie Shepherd/Sheepdog mix with three terms in Marines. Did I mentioned he's got a full size Irish Elk rack? He's melee-4 with those suckers in zero-g, baby! Woof, woof, woof! That's my other dog impression, uh-huh."
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Vargr were genetically uplifted from wolves - not dogs.
Dogs are uplifted wolves.
G. Kashkanun Anderson
SOC-13
Actually, dogs may have a better claim to it than Vargr.Dogs are uplifted wolves.
I don't know about the other references, but my CT Vargr Module only says that the original Terran stock taken by the Ancients was "almost" certainly of the genus Canis ... but never tells us what species of Canis that may be.
So that could mean anything from a grey/timberwolf, to a coyote, a jackal(!?), or even a number of now-passed but then-available late Pleistocene critters, such as the Dire Wolf. Heck, considering how easily they hybridize with each other, Vargr ancestry could be made up of all of them!
We don't know that, however; so Vargr ancestry may not be as cut and dried as "wolves in space" may imply. But we do know that all dogs -- Canis lupus familiaris -- are, in fact, wolves. :smirk:
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
My vote would be for the dire wolf.
Daft question, can Vargr breed with dogs and wolves?
Domestic dogs can still interbreed with wolves - there are problems with coyotes and jackals however.
So are Vargr still genetically close enough to wolves and dogs that breeding could occur?
Daft question, can Vargr breed with dogs and wolves?
Domestic dogs can still interbreed with wolves - there are problems with coyotes and jackals however.
So are Vargr still genetically close enough to wolves and dogs that breeding could occur?
To ask a Vargr that question would be against my medic's best advice.
Kawaresksenjajok
SOC-5
Now I don't know if I'm supposed to take this picture seriously or not!
The artist has talent, I like the approach, and given the fact it's wearing a suit, could account for the beefyness.
Vargr have always been digitigrade, and hopefully will always be depicted being so, regardless of physiology issues. You go too far down that road, and all we'll end up with are humans with prosthetic foreheads for aliens. IMO
I don't want to say much more about the antlers, other than to get rid of them. What's next? Zhodani with duck-bills?
The artist has talent, I like the approach, and given the fact it's wearing a suit, could account for the beefyness.
Vargr have always been digitigrade, and hopefully will always be depicted being so, regardless of physiology issues. You go too far down that road, and all we'll end up with are humans with prosthetic foreheads for aliens. IMO
I don't want to say much more about the antlers, other than to get rid of them. What's next? Zhodani with duck-bills?
It seems your Traveller characters never met Donaldiepr and his nephews,
the deadly "Chirper Gang". :devil:
G. Kashkanun Anderson
SOC-13
I dunno; can humans and great apes? The question is considered serious enough that lots of not-crazy scientists want to ban any attempt to do so ahead of time, just in case.
o:Money quote from the article: "The chromosomal difference between a goat and a sheep is greater than between humans and chimpanzees."
From what little I've learned about genetics on my own, the amount of difference between species is not the only factor in whether they can successfully breed. Apparently each species (or more accurately, each actual genome) has its own built in limits, because different amounts of differences will be more or less advantageous given a particular set of circumstances.
So given this, whether or not they could breed would depend on a) whether any of the changes made to Vargr affect those "limits", b) those changes make the difference between the two species greater than the limits, and c) whether or not the ones doing the tinkering changed those limits arbitrarily at all.
So in other words: whatever the ref wants (although if s/he allows it then you might call them a sick puppy). <runs for cover>
So given this, whether or not they could breed would depend on a) whether any of the changes made to Vargr affect those "limits", b) those changes make the difference between the two species greater than the limits, and c) whether or not the ones doing the tinkering changed those limits arbitrarily at all.
So in other words: whatever the ref wants (although if s/he allows it then you might call them a sick puppy). <runs for cover>
Andrew Boulton
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Kawaresksenjajok
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