Vegan starship designs

[Sturn]

I believe the desire of the original poster was for deckplans that are somehow different for the Vegans (I could be wrong, speculating). If we don't use some qualities to make Vegan ships unique, then we should just print out a 3rd Imperium design for him.

It's a game, he and Vargas seemed to want something unique for their Vegan deckplans, thus the proposals below.

As Rancke suggested, instead of mixed cultures affecting a single design philosophy, each may have their own unique designs. But, that hands us the problem of having to come up with several unique design philosophies for Vegans instead of just one which already seems to be difficult.

It could be easier just to say they use 3rd Imperium ships, but what would be the fun in that?

 

[Starviking]

The modern Indian Navy grew from, and was originally patterned after, the Royal Navy... where most of its early personnel & all its early officers gained their initial Naval experience.

For the last half-century+, since being granted independence from the British Empire, the vast majority of their ships have been either UK/USSR/Russia-built, or locally-designed derivatives of UK/USSR/Russia-built designs.

Therefore, their Navy, its customs, and its ships, are distinctly European in nature, and do not reflect what an independent India would have developed over the last 2 centuries.

I agree that the current Indian Navy does not reflect what an independent Indian Navy with 2 centuries of history behind it would look like. However, the fact is that the Indians have been building modified ships to British designs for many years now - modified to fit Indian operational requirements, not to grossly reflect the culture of India.

Vegan ships will have their own operational requirements, which will not extend to making ships which will be hazardous or unprofitable to operate, like the modular ships suggested earlier, IMHO.

 

[Starviking]

As for the Vegans, and your comment... "rubber-suit" is a term to describe making aliens that look different, but act just like humans.

In this case, what was proposed was that the Vegans incorporate their own culture into their ship designs, rather than copying Vilani or Solomani designs that don't reflect Vegan cultural norms!

Therefore, it is Vegans acting like Vegans... which is the opposite of "rubber-suity"!

They are NOT "aliens who do X for no reason", but "aliens who do X because that fits their described culture"!

There's two points I'd like to address here:

"Rubber-suity": This might be my personal viewpoint, but having Aliens who do X for no reason seems a subset of the rubber-suit concept - trying to differentiate them from humans without any thought to why they do what they do. Aliens like these are seen in spades in Star Trek and Star Wars. I guess the Kafers in 2300 AD would be the antithesis of these - they have a very good reason for doing the odd things they do.

Now the reason I see modular and subdivided ships as being rubber suity is that I have a background in Physics and Engineering, with an interest in naval and aviation affairs. To me both ideas seem like a recipe for disaster:

Modular ships will be heavier and thus lower performing than an integrated ship designed to the same task. They will also be at much more risk of losing vital systems when damaged - as the couplings between modules would be at risk of shock damage as the ship flexes more.

Compartmentalised ships will need extra crew to facilitate communications between the segregated sections. In an emergency they will not perform as well together as a ship's crew should.

Ships are built to do jobs well, within a budget. There are operational requirements written up as to the tasks a ship has to do in most (if not all) navies. There will be differing design philosophies - but they will not (knowingly) work against the efficiency of the ship. Budgets are set by governments, operational requirements by navies or other services (or by owners in the civvie world). I can't see why the Vegans would be any different - especially as they have an implacable enemy in their neighbourhood.

Who would set the budget for the Vegans? The Civil Service Tuhuir. Who would decide the Operational Requirements? The Naval Tuhuir (or the Scout Tuhuir, or Merchant Tuhuirs). Who would design it? Whatever Tuhuir is into Naval Architecture. Build it? Whatever Tuhiur is into Ship Building (or perhaps Naval Architecture and Ship Building are in the same Tuhuir). Who would 'man' it? I'd expect it to be crewed largely from the Tuhuir which drew up the Operational Requirement.

Look to the requirements and you'll find the ships the Vegans will want to build, though quirks will come from design requirements. For the former there's the enemy at the gate for the navy - and the fact that the Vegan Autonomous District is a large J-1 cluster. For the latter you can let your imagination run wild (within limits). Case in point: the USN and the RN did a study where they each designed a ship to a common operational requirement in the 80s. The US ship came in 1000 tons heavier than the UK one - mainly due to design requirements - the US ship's vital spots had to be designed to operate even if the area of the ship they were in was knocked out, the British though any hit capable of knocking out an area would knock out the vital spots in those areas. US diesel generators were also heavier than the British equivalents.

 

[Ran Targas]

I think it kinda depends on how independently minded the Vegans are ...

If they want ships that are Vegan designed and Vegan built, then they will have unique designs that may purposefully appear very different from human designs. This may also make sense if the Vegans have a lot of class A starports (I haven't looked at any maps lately so I can't be sure). But even the presence of just one could be construed as a blossoming Vegan ship building industry. You know that Indian car company?

If they just want to get to the stars on the cheap, then they will adopt ships and designs from the humans and maybe non-humans nearby. No sense in buying new when old ships work just as good.

 

[FreeTrav]

:devil: About the only thing about Vegan starships that I could tell you for certain is that there will be absolutely NO provisions for storing animal products whatsoever. :devil:

 

[Peter Newman]

:devil: About the only thing about Vegan starships that I could tell you for certain is that there will be absolutely NO provisions for storing animal products whatsoever. :devil:

No a vegan starship is one that isn't made out of animal products. Standard metal hulls are vegan whether or not they're Vegan.

Maybe you could coat your starship in meat so herbivorous giant monsters would be less likely to eat it?

 

[rancke]

:devil: About the only thing about Vegan starships that I could tell you for certain is that there will be absolutely NO provisions for storing animal products whatsoever. :devil:

I was going to point out that Vegans are omnivorous (thereby pretending that I'd missed the joke), but when I checked the writeup, it turns out it doesn't say one way or the other (At least, I couldn't find it). GT:Rim of Fire strongly implies that they are herbivorous, but doesn't come right out and say so (again, that I could find with a quick browse).

Mind you, you can be herbivorous without being vegan. It's quite conceivable that an intelligent herbivorous race might use animal products for condiments or as dietary supplements.


Hans

 

[far-trader]

For what it's worth, depending where the info actually came from (if not simply presumed) the wikia writeup lists them as Browser/Herbivore:

http://traveller.wikia.com/wiki/Vegan

I know ages ago, based on next to no official data, I made my first Vegans vegan. Just as a joke play on the name, and for no other reason. Well maybe a little bit to make them more alien in some small way. I think I was even leaning to making them actually veggies, plant based life, sorta mobile Venus Fly Traps, at one time.

 

[BlackBat242]

They do look like they could have evolved from plants, but LBB Supplement 11 (which has the above drawing) also has an anatomical drawing showing an endoskeleton, thereby making them much more likely to be in the "animal" biological classification.

 

[cyanide]

I agree that the current Indian Navy does not reflect what an independent Indian Navy with 2 centuries of history behind it would look like. However, the fact is that the Indians have been building modified ships to British designs for many years now - modified to fit Indian operational requirements, not to grossly reflect the culture of India.

Vegan ships will have their own operational requirements, which will not extend to making ships which will be hazardous or unprofitable to operate, like the modular ships suggested earlier, IMHO.

The Indians model so much of their military hardware from Russian and British sources. They buy all their aircraft from Russia etc. And we know that the KGB worked very hard on India to convert to communism during the cold war, but they were unsuccessful by such small margins.

Just thought I'd drop some cool history .

 

[Starviking]

The Indians model so much of their military hardware from Russian and British sources. They buy all their aircraft from Russia etc. And we know that the KGB worked very hard on India to convert to communism during the cold war, but they were unsuccessful by such small margins.

Just thought I'd drop some cool history .

The Godavari Class frigate is a pretty cool mix of a British Leander-class frigate with Soviet weapons. A nice pic can be seen here: http://homepage.eircom.net/~steven/images/Godavari10.jpg

I wouldn't say they buy all their aircraft from Russia - though they do buy a lot. I recall the US tried to push a sale of British Lightning fighters to India in the 60's. Problem was that even with the incentives being offered to the UK the MIG21 was so much cheaper that the Lightnings would have to have been sold at a massive loss to match MIG prices.

 

[Patron Zero]

Patchwork Fleet

Going back to remarks about Vegans being receivers of 'handed down' Imperial vessels and the race's cant of leaning towards modular-compartmentalized designs, one might speculate that some very most unconventional starships might be forthcoming.

Gleaning through the various texts in this thread it might not be a far fetched notion that the builders-designers in Vegans 'shipyards' may have simply 'cut and pasted' various bits and pieces from starship hulls, seemingly at random.

Mind this would be a quick and dirty method of launching a special purpose vessel or simply working to meet fleet needs with what resources might be available.

That said, would such set a precedent for dedicated Vegan 'scavenger-recovery' vessels and such then operating as a separate, possibly independent-commercial venture ?

I do like the suggestion of 'original' Vegan designs as potentially Gothic or organically patterned, perhaps such vessels crafted from materials recycled from mothballed Imperial ships or other non-conventional sources, space hulks perhaps ?