Venus as the Moon
- Thread starter TKalbfus
- Start date
Its very hard to move your ship to another point in the same orbit, energywise its easy, but it is very time consuming. If there is another planet 60 degrees behind you in Earth's orbit, it is one Astronomical unit away or 93 million miles. You have to travel 129,166 miles per hour to get there in 30 days, or 35 miles per second. Normally what you do when your travelling to another planet in the Solar System is that you wait for a launch window when the planets are properly aligned. an alignment such that, when you fire your rocket, your adding the rocket's change in velocity to the Earth's orbital velocity around the Sun. this increased velocity causes you to move further away from the sun in an elliptical orbit, and the alignment is right so that you target arrives at the far point of your orbit at the same time you do.
In a Trojan Venus situation the alignments of the two planets do not change with relation to each other. Venus is always 60 degrees behind Earth and always at the same distance. To get there you need to do a complete orbit around the sun timing the orbit such that when you return to your previous position, Venus is there instead of Earth. this is a long interplanetary journey, similar to a visit to a near Earth Asteroid in duration. It can take years. Early 1970s technology wasn't up to this task at the time of the Apollo Moon shots. The Astronauts breathed stored oxygen, drank stored water, and ate stored food, and once that run out, they'd better be back on Earth. Astronauts could do a week in space, maybe two weeks, but they weren't yet ready for an interplanetary mission of a duration of many months. Its much easier if Venus is orbiting the Earth as the Moons does.
How about considering an alternative possibility: that he is right about this, and you are wrong?
I can´t stand Bill Cameron, myself, but he knows an awful lot about science and engineering. </font>[/QUOTE]I would except for the fact that he always disagrees with me, he disagrees with me consistently. If I simply took guesses, chances are I would be right at least some of the time. Yet Cameron always makes a point of automatically disagreeing with me, and then trying to find facts that support him. I am suspicious of the facts he brings to the table because of that. I know experts disagree all the time on many matters. I can find experts on both sides of each issue. Anyway, so what? The fact that Star Wars was scientifically inaccurate didn't prevent people from going to see that movie. Its not so obvious as spaceships flying as Airplanes that you can't have Venus as the Moon. Cameron's entire purpose at this is to shoot down all my ideas at every juncture. Don't believe this, look at the posts on the American Sector. Look at his previous quotes that he said before I got invoved with their thread and started lauding this idea. You see he quickly switches sides and then finds reasons why not. Its not simply a matter of science, but one of his motivations. To him science is a game where you score points by defeating your opponents and shooting down their ideas by bring forth your experts to support you.
Yes, I might be wrong, yet I might be right. I don't not trust Bill Cameron to be sufficiently disinterested to trust him when he tells me I'm wrong. I know if I tried hard enough I can find scientists who would agree with me that a Venus as the Moon situation is a possible natural outcome of a Solar System development, but as you see Bill Cameron will only quote sources that support his position, as to him Science is all about winning and defeating his opponents. That is why hes such an intellectual Bully. If you like the setting, use it, don't let him stop you with technobabble just because he doesn't like me.
How about considering an alternative possibility: that he is right about this, and you are wrong?
I can´t stand Bill Cameron, myself, but he knows an awful lot about science and engineering. </font>[/QUOTE]I would except for the fact that he always disagrees with me, he disagrees with me consistently. If I simply took guesses, chances are I would be right at least some of the time. Yet Cameron always makes a point of automatically disagreeing with me, and then trying to find facts that support him. I am suspicious of the facts he brings to the table because of that. I know experts disagree all the time on many matters. I can find experts on both sides of each issue. Anyway, so what? The fact that Star Wars was scientifically inaccurate didn't prevent people from going to see that movie. Its not so obvious as spaceships flying as Airplanes that you can't have Venus as the Moon. Cameron's entire purpose at this is to shoot down all my ideas at every juncture. Don't believe this, look at the posts on the American Sector. Look at his previous quotes that he said before I got invoved with their thread and started lauding this idea. You see he quickly switches sides and then finds reasons why not. Its not simply a matter of science, but one of his motivations. To him science is a game where you score points by defeating your opponents and shooting down their ideas by bring forth your experts to support you.
Yes, I might be wrong, yet I might be right. I don't not trust Bill Cameron to be sufficiently disinterested to trust him when he tells me I'm wrong. I know if I tried hard enough I can find scientists who would agree with me that a Venus as the Moon situation is a possible natural outcome of a Solar System development, but as you see Bill Cameron will only quote sources that support his position, as to him Science is all about winning and defeating his opponents. That is why hes such an intellectual Bully. If you like the setting, use it, don't let him stop you with technobabble just because he doesn't like me. </font>[/QUOTE]You are taking yourself far too serious. Bill´s main purpose is not shooting down your ideas; you´re, at most, second on his list, a long way behind T20.
And your point about him not liking you shouldn´t stop you from considering his argument on their own merit. After all, if he is right, your setting will profit from that; if it turns out he isn´t, and you can prove it, you can rub that in his face. I suppose you can guess how much he will like that...
Kalbfus,
I always disagree with you? I guess that's why I wrote this in this very thread:
Now for the only important part of my post. Although your Venus as Earth's moon idea will not work in reality, it does not necessarily follow that your Venus as Earth's moon will not work as a game setting. Reality and game settings are two very different things.
Because your idea is fun and interesting, it is automatically a fun and interesting game setting.
Like your earlier Ringworld ideas, I've enjoyed your suggestions regarding this setting. I do hope you put whatever comes out of this thread into in some sort of document that COTI can then host in the FLibrary. You failed to do that with your Ringworld ideas sadly.
Please keep all these ideas coming, Tom. And do try and listen to rest of us when we add a little something from our various areas of expertise, be it industrial production and tech development from me or planetography and orbital mechanics from Constantine. Sometimes we actually do know what we're talking about.
Have fun 'cause I'm having fun with your idea,
Bill
That was written about a year ago before I gave up on you. You can find it on Page 3 of this thread.
What you fail to realise and what you always fail to realise is that people do not take exception to your ideas and opinions as much as they take execption to how you present those ideas and opinions.
I've liked your ideas in the past and I've said so. I written in open posts on at least two threads; this one and your Ringworld thread, that you should write up your ideas and submit them to Hunter for the fLibrary. That's not the actions of a person who always disagrees with with you.
Now for more serious matters...
You need professional help, professional psychiatric help. I firmly believe this.
Every time you frequent a forum, trouble ensues. Every time you touch a thread, it goes sour. You've been booted out, chased off, ignored, and told to shut up by moderators and posters alike across the internet. A simple google search reveals this. You're banned at SJGames, a persona non grata at SWHI, a laughing stock at WOTC, and just plain trouble everywhere else.
And yet, despite all this, you continue to believe that it is somehow not your fault, that your behavior has nothing to do with the way your treated in several forums and by hundreds of posters. That's not being stubborn or even willfully ignorant. That's a distorted view of reality.
It isn't your ideas and opinions that spark this. It's your behavior as you present and discuss those ideas and opinions. It's your personality or, more accurately, your personality disorder that is at the root of all your troubles.
Most people simply believe you're a troll and an asshole. I do not because I refuse to believe that anyone would choose to behave as you do. There must be an underlying cause and I think I've found it. I believe you suffer from a form of autism.
Autism is much more than Rain Man counting spilled matches and many people with autism can and do function independently after a fashion. One aspect of autism that is present in all the various levels and syndromes is an inability to interact socially with other humans in a successful and coherent manner. You display this deficit, and others associated with autism, to a marked degree.
Consider the following:
Fixed ideas and behaviors - Like the low functioning autistics who must watch the same TV show epsiode or the same movie over and over, you continually return to the same few idee fixes in your posts and threads. When faced with complex human social interactions you can barely comprehend, it's a comfort to you to fall back on D&D monsters, ringworlds, anti-communism, hyper-patriotism, nanotechnology, and all the rest. You also love generating lists; worlds, encounters, TL charts, equipment charts, and so forth. The routine of following known procedures to grind out list after list is comforting to you. Unlike when you try to interact with other people and fail, there are no shocks or surprises when generating a list.
Inappropriate Anger - You display a 'knee jerk' or 'hair trigger' anger towards other poster's responses. The most innocuous remark can be miscontrued by you and viewed as a personal attack. (This is also part of the reading comprehension deficit I'll talk about next.) Suggestions, constructive criticism, and differing opinions are all seen by you in the same light. Because you cannot interact correctly with other people, you misinterperet many comments as personal attacks and then personally attack the poster in question. This is why flamewars are always going on around you. Because you percieve so many personal attacks where there are none, you have not been able to percieve the true nature of your presence at many fora. You truly believe it always the other guys' fault and never your own when the truth is the exact opposite if that.
Poor Reading Comprehension - The earlier pages of this thread is a very good example of this. It took Dr. Thomas several posts to impress the most basic information upon you. It wasn't that you didn't want to understand, it was because of your autism that you couldn't understand. Because of your poor or nonexistent social skills, you find it very difficult and sometimes impossible to discuss or debate anything. The 'give and take' that is such an important part of information sharing is missing in your conversations and interactions. Unless the information presented to you to laid in the most basic terms and repeated several times, you simply cannot comprehend it because of your troubles with communication.
Short or easily diverted attention - This is very noticeable in your posts. You can rarely hold onto one train of thought for long. Your posts are long and rambling as each idea spills out after the next in no real order. You routinely post huge 'monoblocs' of text with little or no internal structure to them; i.e. no paragraphs. This 'stream of consciousness' type writing is normal to you and other autistics. It not normal for everyone else however.
Another indication of your attention span problems occurs when you are attempting to respond to another's post. More often than not, your post will have nothing to do with the post you're trying to respond to. People have made this observation for years now, which only confuses and angers you more. You believe you responded to the post because you sat down to respond to the post. However, what you began to type and what you finished up typing are usually two very different things.
You also have great difficulties adhering to thread topics. What is seen as natural topic progression to you because of your attention span deficits is seen by most others as 'thread-jacking'. Again, you cannot understand those accusations of 'thread-jacking' because thinking like that is normal to you.
You may be able to see how all these difficulties in communicating and this lack of scoial skills weighs you down. Your trouble in comprehending what others are saying, your inability to communicate effectively, and your trouble relating socially to other people all lead to hurt feelings, personal attacks, flamewars, and your current reputation on many fora. Your life must be a dark and weary one. If you exhibit such profound deficits in the limited interactive nature of web fora, the deficits you must struggle with in face-to-face, daily interactions must be daunting.
It doesn't have to be that way however.
You're a high functioning autistic. While I don't believe your claims of being a computer programmer as you've never once joined in any of the programming discussions here and the few remarks you've made concerning work have been limited to accounts of driving people around, I do believe that you hold down a job and function after a fashion in you community. That's a place to start. You've apparently developed coping mechanisms on your own. If not you'd be fired, thrown out of where you live, and beat up on a regular basis. Those 'homegrown' mechanisms can be a place to start.
Great strides have been made in just the last 5 years in helping high functioning autistics like yourself. You can be taught many coping mechanisms that will help you even more. You'll never learn how to successfully communicate with or relate to people on an innate level, you're just not 'wired' to do so. You can, with a lot of work, develop certain habits however. Those habits will help you cope with and successfully handle mainstream human interactions. You'll still be an anthropologist on Mars to borrow Dr. Oliver Sack's wonderful phrase, but you'll be able to fit in with less of the trouble and misunderstanding you constantly deal with today.
Get some professional help, Kalbfus. It won't hurt a bit and it can only make your life a great deal better.
Bill
Very perceptive. I think what I got is Asperigers Syndrome. Your right about one thing, I have had trouble holding a Job. I have a degree in Computer Programming from Pace University, a Masters Degree in fact. I graduated in 1995. I've had three programming jobs since then, none of them have lasted very long. My latest career is as a Chauffer. I find that If I just drive, and don't talk much to the passengers, I can get by.
In case your wondering, My name is Tom Kalbfus, most of you have guessed that by now. I've aquired the new Identity handle mostly because I get tired of being bullied. I want to create some stuff for role playing games, maybe even do it professionally someday. The America Sector is practise for me. I'm going to try to complete one project, and detail it in a similar manner as the Spinward Marches was done, or at least that is what I'm going to attempt.
I'm not a hermit or anything, I do desire social interaction, it is just that it often ends in disaster, but despite that I have a wife and two children, one of whom is names Laryssa, she is 8, and my younger son is Charles, who is 2.
I am not a racist or a Nazi as the Baron has suggested. He has gotten me angery on many occasions with his frequent suggestions that the United States is some kind of Imperialist Empire that oppresses people. I identify strongly with my country for one reason: alot of other countries seem to pick on and bully the United States just like many of my classmates in my school years liked to pick on me, when I tried to make friends. In High School, I learned that if I don't try to make friends, I don't end up making enemies either. So in high school, I kept to myself, didn't socialize much, and people stopped bothering me. I had one or two friends that I conversed with when I had lunch but that's about it.
After graduation, my life has been a series of disappointments. Having poor social skills is a barrier to getting work. My wife worked for a time running a Florist Shop I inherited from my mother when she died. The business ran into the ground due to high rents that the business wouldn't support, that was in 2001. I made alot of flower deliveries, and in the process I became quite handy looking up directions in maps.
I once had dreams of becoming a physicist, I started a physics degree at pace University, but as I had trouble with my calculus classes, and I needed the calculus to follow the Physics, i changed my degree to one of Economics because the math was easier, and my father was an economist, and that ended up being my Bachelor's degree. I tried getting a job with that, but my grade point average was compromised by my initial foray into physics, and also a run in with a left-wing history professor who insisted that the United States started the Cold War, which my main interest lay in and still does despite my difficulty with the calculus. I read alot of science magazines in my spare time, and I have a Physics Textbook at home, which I refer to upon occasion.
I enjoy debates, I think you can see that, but I don't enjoy when they get nasty and personal, which they often do here Sometimes I think a few steps ahead, and anticipate what people like the Baron might say to support his position that the Islamic terrorists are somehow the good guys, and often times he argues just as I predicted.
So I was born with a "curse" as I often call it in jest. So what's your profession Bill, you seem fairly intelligent, when you don't seem to be bullying me. I never thought you weren't, but I know it is a human thing for one to select facts to support his position and ignore others, so I kind of get supicious when people come after me like I often seen you do.
My pro-American Stance has most to do with Foreign policy, I was an indirect victim of the 9/11 attack, as a chauffer, business to the airport went way down in the aftermath, and I have never forgiven those terrorists, and the countries that allowed them to florish for doing that, I tend to take it very personal, and I refuse to understand why someone might think crashing those airplanes into those buildings and killing all those innocent people was a reasonable thing to do, and thats where I get into all those arguments with the Baron. I saw the smoke rising from the World Trade Center, and it was my state and my city that they attacked.
I voted for Ronald Reagan, George Bush, Bill Clinton twice, and George W. Bush, and everytime I voted, the candidate for President that I voted for won. I sympathize with alot of liberal things like fairness, what I don't like is the Bush Lies spiel, and the mindless knee jerk Bush Bashing, which seems more concern with replacing one politician with another rather than doing anything positive for my country. My country is at War and I want it to win, I really don't care who is president, whether its Bill Clinton or George Bush, I always want my country to win! Some people have called me a right winger or a Nazi because of that. I try to explain my positions but they just don't listen.
Now that I told you my life's story let me say something about Venus as the Moon. I got another idea of how to handle this. Bill your arguments go against a stable orbital relationship over geologic time periods, humans don't operate over geologic time periods, but over historic time periods so, how about this?
Instead of doing an alternate history, our story goes like this. Some time in the near future, in the next decade, an astronomer discovers a laser light eminating from the Andromeda Galaxy. That laser beam, it turns out is actually a navigational beacon for two objects that are hurtling toward the Solar System at near light speed, these objects are not solid, but actually warps in the fabric of space, wormholes actually Giant wormholes. One engulfs the planet Venus from its orbit, and another passes close to the Earth and discharges CVenus, it is actually the same planet the first wormhole engulfed, but thousands of years had passed for the planet Venus and in those years it was sort of terraformed by an alien civilization residing in the Andromeda Galaxy millions of years ago, this civilization now explores the universe and the future through accelerated wormholes, it has discovered numerous civilizations through these wormholes, and they have been watching humanity for quite sometime, and this time they have discharged CVenus in a wide circular orbit around Earth. The sudden appearance of the planet causes numerous Earthquakes and tidal waves all across both planet's surfaces, this is a disaster for many coastal cities, but still civilization manages to recover from this, and later the mount expeditions to CVenus, which naturally enough has some things on its surface these distant aliens have left for mankind, artifacts of sorts, and also various native humans who are descented from abductees that were snatched over many previous centuries, none of them less that 4,000 years ago, so no they are not the explaination for all those UFO sightings.
Now that I've told you my story, maybe you can try to understand me a little better.
In case your wondering, My name is Tom Kalbfus, most of you have guessed that by now. I've aquired the new Identity handle mostly because I get tired of being bullied. I want to create some stuff for role playing games, maybe even do it professionally someday. The America Sector is practise for me. I'm going to try to complete one project, and detail it in a similar manner as the Spinward Marches was done, or at least that is what I'm going to attempt.
I'm not a hermit or anything, I do desire social interaction, it is just that it often ends in disaster, but despite that I have a wife and two children, one of whom is names Laryssa, she is 8, and my younger son is Charles, who is 2.
I am not a racist or a Nazi as the Baron has suggested. He has gotten me angery on many occasions with his frequent suggestions that the United States is some kind of Imperialist Empire that oppresses people. I identify strongly with my country for one reason: alot of other countries seem to pick on and bully the United States just like many of my classmates in my school years liked to pick on me, when I tried to make friends. In High School, I learned that if I don't try to make friends, I don't end up making enemies either. So in high school, I kept to myself, didn't socialize much, and people stopped bothering me. I had one or two friends that I conversed with when I had lunch but that's about it.
After graduation, my life has been a series of disappointments. Having poor social skills is a barrier to getting work. My wife worked for a time running a Florist Shop I inherited from my mother when she died. The business ran into the ground due to high rents that the business wouldn't support, that was in 2001. I made alot of flower deliveries, and in the process I became quite handy looking up directions in maps.
I once had dreams of becoming a physicist, I started a physics degree at pace University, but as I had trouble with my calculus classes, and I needed the calculus to follow the Physics, i changed my degree to one of Economics because the math was easier, and my father was an economist, and that ended up being my Bachelor's degree. I tried getting a job with that, but my grade point average was compromised by my initial foray into physics, and also a run in with a left-wing history professor who insisted that the United States started the Cold War, which my main interest lay in and still does despite my difficulty with the calculus. I read alot of science magazines in my spare time, and I have a Physics Textbook at home, which I refer to upon occasion.
I enjoy debates, I think you can see that, but I don't enjoy when they get nasty and personal, which they often do here Sometimes I think a few steps ahead, and anticipate what people like the Baron might say to support his position that the Islamic terrorists are somehow the good guys, and often times he argues just as I predicted.
So I was born with a "curse" as I often call it in jest. So what's your profession Bill, you seem fairly intelligent, when you don't seem to be bullying me. I never thought you weren't, but I know it is a human thing for one to select facts to support his position and ignore others, so I kind of get supicious when people come after me like I often seen you do.
My pro-American Stance has most to do with Foreign policy, I was an indirect victim of the 9/11 attack, as a chauffer, business to the airport went way down in the aftermath, and I have never forgiven those terrorists, and the countries that allowed them to florish for doing that, I tend to take it very personal, and I refuse to understand why someone might think crashing those airplanes into those buildings and killing all those innocent people was a reasonable thing to do, and thats where I get into all those arguments with the Baron. I saw the smoke rising from the World Trade Center, and it was my state and my city that they attacked.
I voted for Ronald Reagan, George Bush, Bill Clinton twice, and George W. Bush, and everytime I voted, the candidate for President that I voted for won. I sympathize with alot of liberal things like fairness, what I don't like is the Bush Lies spiel, and the mindless knee jerk Bush Bashing, which seems more concern with replacing one politician with another rather than doing anything positive for my country. My country is at War and I want it to win, I really don't care who is president, whether its Bill Clinton or George Bush, I always want my country to win! Some people have called me a right winger or a Nazi because of that. I try to explain my positions but they just don't listen.
Now that I told you my life's story let me say something about Venus as the Moon. I got another idea of how to handle this. Bill your arguments go against a stable orbital relationship over geologic time periods, humans don't operate over geologic time periods, but over historic time periods so, how about this?
Instead of doing an alternate history, our story goes like this. Some time in the near future, in the next decade, an astronomer discovers a laser light eminating from the Andromeda Galaxy. That laser beam, it turns out is actually a navigational beacon for two objects that are hurtling toward the Solar System at near light speed, these objects are not solid, but actually warps in the fabric of space, wormholes actually Giant wormholes. One engulfs the planet Venus from its orbit, and another passes close to the Earth and discharges CVenus, it is actually the same planet the first wormhole engulfed, but thousands of years had passed for the planet Venus and in those years it was sort of terraformed by an alien civilization residing in the Andromeda Galaxy millions of years ago, this civilization now explores the universe and the future through accelerated wormholes, it has discovered numerous civilizations through these wormholes, and they have been watching humanity for quite sometime, and this time they have discharged CVenus in a wide circular orbit around Earth. The sudden appearance of the planet causes numerous Earthquakes and tidal waves all across both planet's surfaces, this is a disaster for many coastal cities, but still civilization manages to recover from this, and later the mount expeditions to CVenus, which naturally enough has some things on its surface these distant aliens have left for mankind, artifacts of sorts, and also various native humans who are descented from abductees that were snatched over many previous centuries, none of them less that 4,000 years ago, so no they are not the explaination for all those UFO sightings.
Now that I've told you my story, maybe you can try to understand me a little better.
Border Reiver
SOC-14 1K
Well done Tom, I hope that this was as cathartic for you as it is be revealing for most others here.
I think you will find that many others here have some very mild form of Asperger's. It manifests itself in an obsessive interest in a hobby at the expense of other social priorities. Train Spotters are the prime example of the Asperger Hobbyist but even a fanatical devotion to a sports team or rock band could be cited as examples.
I have a few comments to make but they are entirely political and will keep them where they belong.
I think you will find that many others here have some very mild form of Asperger's. It manifests itself in an obsessive interest in a hobby at the expense of other social priorities. Train Spotters are the prime example of the Asperger Hobbyist but even a fanatical devotion to a sports team or rock band could be cited as examples.
I have a few comments to make but they are entirely political and will keep them where they belong.
TheEngineer
SOC-14 1K
Hi !
People, stay friendly and on topic, please
Even if a natural development of a life hosting double planet system is highly unlikely (ok, impossible) I have no problems to accept an artifical setting like that, which strongly relies on some supernatural powers (so just something ancient like).
If something is able to put away a planet here and there, terraform it and put it back, it is likely to be able to set positions and movements is just a way, that a neglegtable moment in astrophysical terms exists, where both planets could orbit each other happily and offer adventuring opertunities for some 100000 years or more. At least enough time for the next 100 interstellar empires.
As I had no time to fight thru 11 pages of this thread, are there any hints here how long a somehow stable situation theoretically could prolong ?
I just saw some notes about the final destination of such a system....
Regards,
Mert
People, stay friendly and on topic, please
Even if a natural development of a life hosting double planet system is highly unlikely (ok, impossible) I have no problems to accept an artifical setting like that, which strongly relies on some supernatural powers (so just something ancient like).
If something is able to put away a planet here and there, terraform it and put it back, it is likely to be able to set positions and movements is just a way, that a neglegtable moment in astrophysical terms exists, where both planets could orbit each other happily and offer adventuring opertunities for some 100000 years or more. At least enough time for the next 100 interstellar empires.
As I had no time to fight thru 11 pages of this thread, are there any hints here how long a somehow stable situation theoretically could prolong ?
I just saw some notes about the final destination of such a system....
Regards,
Mert
Plankowner
SOC-13
Well, I was the one who suggested that maybe having Venus be in a Trojan point would work better. And I will have to admit that I was wrong.
After reading some more here and other places it SEEMS like it would be better, but the time to travel to t-Venus wouldn't make it work in a 20th century scenario. Time of travel definitely trumps the lower energy requirements of the trip.
I find it really sad that physics stops us from having a Rosette of worlds that are all habitable. That is such a Science Fiction standard. Larry Niven used it with his Puppeteers of Known Space. I would have thought he would have the math. SIGH
After reading some more here and other places it SEEMS like it would be better, but the time to travel to t-Venus wouldn't make it work in a 20th century scenario. Time of travel definitely trumps the lower energy requirements of the trip.
I find it really sad that physics stops us from having a Rosette of worlds that are all habitable. That is such a Science Fiction standard. Larry Niven used it with his Puppeteers of Known Space. I would have thought he would have the math. SIGH
TheEngineer
SOC-14 1K
Lets think a bit more constructive.
If a rosette system exist in TU all gearheads know, that such a system would not be stable on its own. So gearheads should know, too, that there just has to be some kind of stabilizing factor, which is at least as weird as the rosette itself.
Maybe we should concentrate gearheading on not only to rip thing apart, but on thinking whats necessary to keep things together (even if you would have to think big).
If a rosette system exist in TU all gearheads know, that such a system would not be stable on its own. So gearheads should know, too, that there just has to be some kind of stabilizing factor, which is at least as weird as the rosette itself.
Maybe we should concentrate gearheading on not only to rip thing apart, but on thinking whats necessary to keep things together (even if you would have to think big).
Here's a quickie proposal. A world gets smashed by a large asteroid and leaves several large wordlets in a cluster. Later, the ancients come along and installs small grav generators on them - to increase the local surface gravity but not mych beyond it - and goes about terra-forming the results. When humaniti comes along, they have a small cluster of habitable worldlets you can almost touch. The grav generators are hidden which adds to the confusion of how this happened.
Tom,
That is very good news because Asperger's Syndrome is the one form of autism that best responds to therapy.
You have a nice life now, Tom, with a wife, children, and all. Your life can be even better if you get some help. Check it out, it can't hurt.
You'll complete it. And this time save it so you can share it with us!
I haven't meant to bully you, Tom. I definitely have lost my patience with you many times however. I also refused to believe that you would choose to behave as you do and that's why I took you on as a project of sorts. I gathered the threads you participated in, both the good threads and the bad threads, and studied them. That's how I came to believe that you were autistic. I needed to know the reason for your behavior, simply dismissing you as an 'asshole' or 'troll' like so many others wasn't the right thing to do.
'Cherry picking' facts is a function of debate. Deliberately ignoring facts is something else entirely. The people with whom you get into discussions with rarely ignore the facts you present out of hand.
You may percieve it as such, but what they are doing is weighing the facts you've presented and finding them lacking in some manner. Review Dr. Thomas' attempts to explain tidal locking to you in this thread for example. Before loosing his temper, he proved again and again that your 'facts' weren't facts after all. A similar pattern can be found in your SJGames ringworld thread. There, another patinet poster tried to explain repeatedly why your redesigned ringworld would not work. He wasn't selectively applying facts either.
Good, back on topic.
Human societies don't operate over geological time, but human evolution does. That's why the 'twin planets' would have very different lifeforms. Even if we limit ourselves to historical time, the length of the 'twin' planet's day would make for very different human history and societies.
Instead, why do we need a back story at all? As I and others said early in this thread when it became apparent that the 'twin' planets weren't plausible, let's just detail the setting anyway. The planets are orbiting around each other, humans live on one and are beginning to explore the other.
There is no need to explain the nuts and bolts, is there? Do we have blueprints for jump drives? Do we know how contra-gravity works? The answer to both questions is 'no' and that doesn't keep Traveller from being a fun setting.
I wrote before that you shouldn't worry about explaining the planets' orbit. The idea is fun and interesting so the setting you create from the idea will be fun and interesting too.
Go ahead with the setting and let the orbital mechanics go hang.
And this time, please, please, PLEASE save everything in a single document so you can share it with the rest of us.
We should now and we should remember to make allowances. You'll need to work at it too remember.
Nice chatting.
Bill
Gruffty
SOC-14 1K
As a mental health professional, I can't agree 100% with Bill's "diagnosis" of Mr Kalbfus, but that is only on professional grounds.
However I do agree with Bill that Tom needs to get help to address the points Bill has identified.
<Star mental health lecture>
Just as an aside and for those that are interested, "autism" isn't classed as a "personality disorder"; it's what is known as a "developmental disorder" or an "intellectual disorder" (it used to be classed as a "learning disability" until the medical people relaised the condition runs across a broad spectrum of levels of functioning). However, clinically, there are similiarities of symptoms in both conditions that mirror each other.
</End mental health lecture>
I have nursed individuals (with the range of symptoms described by Bill) on several occassions in the past, and they have been grateful for the help they have received from the team (which is unusual in mental health services
). Tom, please do seek some help - Bill is absolutely right: life can (and should) be better for you with the right help. Putting any previous disagreements between us apart, I wish you well Tom.Gruffty (CotI's visiting mental health nurse).
Well ok, I appreciate it. but this is a forum for Traveller, so lets get back on subject.
I think the unnaturalness of a Venus-Earth pairing might lead one to suspect that an alien intelligence is involved.
Lets go back to the alternate Universe theory. I think the sudden appearance of Venus in our night sky at the distance I mentioned would wreck all sorts of global disasters, especially in coastal areas. Where there wasn't a strong tidal pull suddenly there is. I like the idea of Venus as a second Moon with the same apparent diameter as the first one Luna. As I understand it Venus is about 3 times the distance as out moon, so both orbits should be stable in the short term at least.
I think the unnaturalness of a Venus-Earth pairing might lead one to suspect that an alien intelligence is involved.
Lets go back to the alternate Universe theory. I think the sudden appearance of Venus in our night sky at the distance I mentioned would wreck all sorts of global disasters, especially in coastal areas. Where there wasn't a strong tidal pull suddenly there is. I like the idea of Venus as a second Moon with the same apparent diameter as the first one Luna. As I understand it Venus is about 3 times the distance as out moon, so both orbits should be stable in the short term at least.
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