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Was CT any better than T5 when it first came out.

aspqrz said:
There are some StarAtlases that even *I* don't have. Australia, way back, was the arse end of the Universe (Traveller AND Space Opera, both :-) and we didn't always get things in the (few) local game shops. Even though, theoretically, as co-author, I was supposed to get one of everything SO, the last few items I never did get.

As for Space Opera 2, the problem is that Scott Bizar owns (or thinks he does, I haven't got the money to test his theory in court ... especially as he may well be right!) the *name*. I believe, from conversations with Ed Simbalist not long before he died, that he wanted, back then a FIVE FIGURE sum just for the name, and that ALL the existing stock of all SO books be purchased on top of that. Didn't have a spare US$10,000+ then, and still don't ... and even if I did, it wouldn't make economic sense to pay that sort of money unless, maybe, you were a *really* big company who could market the game on a large scale. Me? I'm just a one man operation ... so it would be pointless.

Still, now that I'm more or less retired (2 JAN 14, but on sabbatical till then!), I may have the time to pitch something to Scott that he might agree to for not too outrageous a cut of the profits, if any. But he doesn't have any more money to market it than I do, as I understand it ... so it would be a PoD or PDF only product. Unless Kickstarter ever allows Aussies to run one without requiring us to jump through hoops to get a US IRS ITIN and to have a US bank account and, presumably, charge us US taxes for products of Australia :-P

Don't hold your breath, in other words, unless you look good in blue and black ;-)

Phil
Click to expand...

I would buy a POD Space Opera 2 any day. Please do try to make it happen!

I'm glad that White Wolf finally figured out that not everyone likes .pdfs, took them long enough!

Jazzlvraz said:
I haven't been to eBay since I spent about 18 months there in the late 90s, buying up everything I could find to "complete" my Traveller wish-list. I have about 12 shelf-feet for just the one game now...plus another two inches for the Monolith, of course.
Click to expand...

I also have exclusive shelving for all my Traveller Books. I have both the collected CT from FFE and most of the original CT books, my favorites are the Alien "dissection" images in the Alien books. :)
 
aspqrz said:
As for Space Opera 2, the problem is that Scott Bizar owns (or thinks he does, I haven't got the money to test his theory in court ... especially as he may well be right!) the *name*.
Click to expand...

Seriously? He thinks that he owns the name "Space Opera"? It is a descriptive term for a whole genre of SF that was used long before the game was written or published; using it on a game for roleplaying that genre hardly makes it trademarkable. :oo:
 
PhilB summarizes many of these posts with the eloquent:

PhilB said:
My impression of CT is that what it does, it does very well.
Click to expand...

And tbeard1999 expresses what to me is a feeling about a certain brittle-ness to the rules:

tbeard1999 said:
I do think that the advanced character generation systems of Book 4+ broke the system and I also think that Book 4 military weapons broke the combat system.
Click to expand...
 
SpaceBadger said:
Seriously? He thinks that he owns the name "Space Opera"? It is a descriptive term for a whole genre of SF that was used long before the game was written or published; using it on a game for roleplaying that genre hardly makes it trademarkable. :oo:
Click to expand...

Space Opera is the name of a sci fi rpg that was printed years ago and enjoys the legal protection of being copyright.

The descriptive term space opera is not copyright.

Traveller after all is copyright yet the term traveller isn't ;)
 
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mike wightman said:
Space Opera is the name of a sci fi rpg that was printed years ago and enjoys the legal protection of being copyright.

The descriptive term space opera is not copyright.

Traveller after all is copyright yet the term traveller isn't ;)
Click to expand...

Traveller also is a mispelling within the US, and hence subject to being trademarked as a singular word. In the US, the word for one who travels is traveler (note the one "l" rather than two).

Everything I've read says that a term in the common parlance can not be enforced as a trademark, but a distinctive presentation thereof is. Intentional misspellings are distinctive presentations.

(Unfortunately, the "ll" version is the UK common parlance...)

But note also: copyright and trademark protections and allowances vary widely amongst Commonweath Countries (and the US). And Creators Rights in various EU members vary as well, and much more so.
 
robject said:
PhilB summarizes many of these posts with the eloquent:
PhilB said:
My impression of CT is that what it does, it does very well.
Click to expand...
And tbeard1999 expresses what to me is a feeling about a certain brittle-ness to the rules:
tbeard1999 said:
I do think that the advanced character generation systems of Book 4+ broke the system and I also think that Book 4 military weapons broke the combat system.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Wow - my sentiments exactly.

Even ignoring the unneeded chargen, and most of the heavy weapons, something still don't fit. [pun] Took a bit to realize Battledress is characters in a personal tank... and the original combat rules don't handle vehicles! :oo:

[Without Battledress, armor DMs for 'hitting' made sense!]
 
aramis said:
Traveller also is a mispelling within the US, ...

(Unfortunately, the "ll" version is the UK common parlance...)
Click to expand...
Doh! Did not know that! :cool:

Always assumed the extra L was solely for Trademark purposes as you mentioned - but it still bothered me 'misspelling' it!
 
aramis said:
Everything I've read says that a term in the common parlance can not be enforced as a trademark, but a distinctive presentation thereof is. Intentional misspellings are distinctive presentations.
Click to expand...

In the US at least, when used for a narrow product category, it's enforceable. The EU is a bit weirder about this stuff. TM's can be broader and prevent you from using one even in a category that that the holder doesn't make a product in.
 
The Classic Black Box of Traveller that I got was cool, it was ultra user-friendly, it was presented beautifully, it was very concise, and it was relatable - weapons/ships/technology wasnt stupid and fanciful it all felt real. The stories it engendered were real as well - survival of a wilderness, exploring space, combat (mainly between humans). I must admit I didnt bother with psionics because that felt daft. But I loved the anti-gravity cars and the lasers because they felt 'possible'. I loved the swords and halberds in space even more though! So that's what I loved about it and I still do.

Marc should have remade T5 in the same format and in the same style as CT - short on length, high on quality and substance - and I would have bought it in an instant. Big, huge opportunity lost forever. He couldnt have done it any worse really IMO. T5 was a stupid idea that went from being just stupid to completely ridiculous and nobody told him to stop, of if they did he didnt listen.

I love Traveller and T5 is something I will never get, same with the other 90% of post CT stuff. I am completely gutted about how T5 has turned out. The only very slight recompense is that I didnt buy the bloody thing.
 
For me T5 is as any version of Traveller, an collection of rules sets that you can either embrace completely, take some parts of and use in your own game, or ignore it. Look I have bought each version of the game that there has been, but I play Traveller using my own set of house rules. I have been using them now for over 20+ years and am not going to change now. So I am working my way through the book and anything I like, I will tinker with it to get it to work within my own rules base.

T5 is still a great book and I am happy that I bought it, and have it in my own hands now. So I will use as much of it that fits my fancy as a GM, and I will put the beloved volumn on my bookshelves with all the rest of my gaming stuff. I hope for more books in the T5 line to add to it.
 
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I have only spent a few hours in total reading through various sections of the book (so Far). I really love the task system, and the 'fighting task' for personal combat. So far I am just dipping into random sections of the book and every time I open it up I find something fascinating to read.
I won't be abandoning my CT collection but slowly, over time I think T5 will be our system of choice.
 
Baltech Budapest said:
I won't be abandoning my CT collection but slowly, over time I think T5 will be our system of choice.
Click to expand...

And I don't think you need to abandon CT completely. As the T5 drafts developed, I was able to replace sections of The Traveller Book (and Merchant Prince, and the Environmental books by the Keith brothers, and Robots, and the MT Referee's Companion, and...). However, I still use the CT adventures and many of the modules, just as I still use some of MegaTraveller, etc.
 
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