Well, that's it then.

[cdward]

Me too...

Me too posts are a pain so here I am making one, all I can say is that I have been eagerly awaiting 2320 dead tree since I first saw an announcement several years ago, I still think that 2300 and 2320 are some of the best hard sci fi setttings out there and I am disappointed that it has come to this - but not surprised.

Chris D-W

 

[rfmcdpei]

Thank you.

 

[jcrocker]

Colin - ditto, ditto, and more ditto. Thanks for your perserverance - I've really enjoyed what you've written, and hope to see it in hardcopy form someday!

 

[Peter Schutze]

>I very much doubt that Hunter has the right to sell the rights to a third party without MWM's agreement,

So I contact MWM (Marc Miller I assume) ? How ?

Would the existing contributors eg Colin be willing to continue on 2320 ? What besides the print version is (close to) ready for publication ?

 

[Colin]

I've got notes and outlines for several other things, but without a commitment from Hunter, I was unwilling to pursue them very far. Others had projects as well, in limbo for similar reasons.

Please keep in mind, Hunter owns 2320AD. Not just the name, but the text as well. It was work-for-hire, and I was paid. To continue 2320AD, not only would someone have to acquire the IP, but the manuscript as well.

As to whether I would still want to be involved, well, it would depend on the level of commitment from the publisher, to be honest.

 

[Vile]

So I contact MWM (Marc Miller I assume) ? How?

The last email address I had for him was marc AT farfuture DOT net. He's not known for responding to emails, though. Great with customer relations, but far from great with licensees.

 

[TWILIGHT]

He's not known for responding to emails, though.

Really? He's always responded to me at the above e-dress. never had a problem. I'll drop him a line and ask if he's aware of the state of play and if theres a clause for 'non-commital'.

 

[MJD]

There's an irony inherent in my position and Colin's.

He did work that he wanted published and got paid for it, which means he can't get it back easily even if it does not get published.

I did work that I wanted to get paid for and didn't, so I got my work back and could use it elsewhere. But as a professional writer, paying the mortgage is more important than seeing my work in print.

Gah... I'd trade places if I could.

 

[Roger Calver]

There is also a big difference between 2300Ad and 2320AD.

2300AD is owned by Marc and FFE and it is this that is licensed by Hunter, he then got Colin to make the changes to the timeline and stuff turning it into 2320AD.

If someone wanted to make a new version and license from Marc it would be 2300AD and not 2320AD that they would get as its been said 2320AD is owned by Hunter (he paid for it) and so without something from Hunter a new version wouldnt be 2320AD in its current form.

Now if Hunter sold 2320AD and a license was got from Marc then that changes the above.

Rog.

 

[TWILIGHT]

There is also a big difference between 2300Ad and 2320AD.

2300AD is owned by Marc and FFE and it is this that is licensed by Hunter, he then got Colin to make the changes to the timeline and stuff turning it into 2320AD.

If someone wanted to make a new version and license from Marc it would be 2300AD and not 2320AD that they would get as its been said 2320AD is owned by Hunter (he paid for it) and so without something from Hunter a new version wouldnt be 2320AD in its current form.

Now if Hunter sold 2320AD and a license was got from Marc then that changes the above.

Rog.

So with marcs blessing someone could release 2300AD 3rd ed? As long as it didnt use anything from 2320AD or d20?

 

[Roger Calver]

In theory yes, the exact details would be between the parties involved, my understaning of it and this maybe incorrect is that 2320AD as its a D20 based game would not be connected to a redux (re:3rd edition) of the original GDW house system - this may also apply to any different systems BUT dont quote me as this maybe wrong.

 

[atpollard]

But all this overlooks the basic problem that Hunter is too ocupied elsewhere in his life to deal with any of this. It would probably be easier for QLI to just publish 2320 than to sell the rights and the manuscript.

Yet it appears that Hunter/QLI will continue to do nothing on 2320 for the visible future.

An Impasse.

 

[Roger Calver]

True, if 2320AD was to be use then Hunter would have to be involved, what has been asked is what if 2300AD was used and not 2320AD.

Could a 3rd edition or a new rules system be used and so therefore avoid the 2320AD mire.

 

[Colin]

In theory, yes. In practice, I don't know. Not really something I'm prepared to actively pursue, in any case. If someone else did, and wanted me involved, I'm certainly prepared to listen. But as I've stated before, it would depend on the level of commitment by the publisher.

I have no desire to further waste my time, nor get anyone's hopes up. Nor am I prepared to involve anyone else, only to see them go for four years without getting paid.

I bear Hunter no ill will over any of this, I want that to be clear. I like Hunter. I understand that life takes priority. At the same time, my time, my effort are meaningful to me, and my family. That is what finally prompted my decision. Hunter's life must be his priority, and my life must be mine. Time to move on.

 

[Colin]

There's an irony inherent in my position and Colin's.

He did work that he wanted published and got paid for it, which means he can't get it back easily even if it does not get published.

I did work that I wanted to get paid for and didn't, so I got my work back and could use it elsewhere. But as a professional writer, paying the mortgage is more important than seeing my work in print.

Gah... I'd trade places if I could.

Well, there is a money component here as well. My contract entitles me to more money depending on sales. If the book isn't being produced, or marketed, then I lose out. Potentially on an amount 1.5x what I have already made. I suppose I could even make a case for non-fulfillment of contract, but with me in Victoria and Hunter in the deep South, there doesn't seem to be much point. Also, like I have said, I bear Hunter no ill-will over any of this, and have no desire to generate any.

I also lose out on any potential earnings from supplements, adventures, etc. So I'm basically cutting my losses at this point.

But yeah, your point is taken. If I did this for a living, I suspect that my reaction would be more akin to yours. Luckily, I have my day job.

 

[MJD]

Fair enough, though your reasoned explanation does wreck my neat irony. Ah well.

My decision to leave QLI behind, and my current attempts to chase royalties, are for much the same reasons as you made your deicsions - life has to come first. In my case, that means paying my household bills and making a living. I stayed aboard with QLI for far too long the first time round and lost a lot of money. I can't afford a repeat.

Though right now I'm not hpeful about getting what I'm owed. Fortunately I was smart and just did the players book as a test case. If it had worked out I'd have been putting other stuff out through QLi, but it just plain hasn't worked to date.

Like you, I have no ill will towards Hunter, this is just business. I kept my end of the bargain and submitted the work in good faith... I have a right to make a living off my own efforts. If that means chasing people for payment, well, I'd rather not and I really should not have to, but so be it. Life comes first and my cats need feeding. So they tell me regularly.

 

[TWILIGHT]

hmm.
Ive been using BRP for settings for years. Maybe 2300ADv3 using BRP
If someone ccan get a definitive answer on the cost of rights then im in contact with a couple of the Chaosium guys....

 

[Roger Calver]

Shoot Marc an email and then hope for a reply.

 

[aramis]

One other reminder: 2300 is not Traveller; it's a separate license.

I suspect T20 may morph into 2320 v2... since the 2300 license will outlast the Traveller license.

 

[kafka47]

Shoot Marc an email and then hope for a reply.

Be sure to also CC: robject as he seems to have a better handle with what is up with Marc...

One other reminder: 2300 is not Traveller; it's a separate license.

I suspect T20 may morph into 2320 v2... since the 2300 license will outlast the Traveller license.

Well, there is a bright and optimistic thought...I had not thought much of SFRPG20 except a competitor in a crowded marketplace.

Really, I think, if Hunter was as smart as he in the web design business as he was in QLI...then 2320AD would make an excellent campaign book for SFRPG20. Although, he will have to overcome the "Sanger problem" of credibility.