Contrary to what people may think, Traveler writers are not infallible.
There are some copyright issues with DGP material and I just didn't want to get into that.
Hans
What are canon sources?
- Thread starter shadowcat20
- Start date
There are some copyright issues with DGP material and I just didn't want to get into that.
Hans
shadowcat20
SOC-12
The reason I asked is so I knew what to use in the Jump Drive and Refueling threads. It would also give me a use list for future discussions.
I fully intend to use what I want for my games but for on the forum I was trying to establish a baseline for reference material.
I fully intend to use what I want for my games but for on the forum I was trying to establish a baseline for reference material.
Starviking
SOC-13
Tons in Traveller are displacement tons - 14m3. You seem to be confusing displacement with mass to me.
Nope. Otherwise you wouldn't be talking about a hole and not understanding hoe dispersed structures are partially hollow yet count the hollow area as tons for the purpose of tonnage for J-Drives.
Starviking
SOC-13
Well, first it would be nice to have an official definition of a dispersed structure. Second - if what you are saying is the case then why would anyone use a dispersed structure? They'd be carrying around a load of wasted space that could not be used for anything...
Ship design rules show that all parts of a dispersed structure are useful. Which means that the jump field must cover the hull like a coat of paint rather than like a bag. I've always[*] assumed that the jump grid serves to shape the jump field to follow the contours of the hull.
[*] Well, ever since the jump grid was introduced.
Hans
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Jump grid - DGP MT invention.
However, that there is something different between a spaceship and a starship hull has been in the rules since '77.
Also Marc's jumpspace article mentions:
"Starship hulls contain as an integral part of their structure a network of wiring which maintains the jump field around the ship."
DGP read this and extrapolated to make the jump grid - shame they didn't read:
"Breaks in the protective network within a starship hull are the primary cause of the loss of ships in jump."
Then they might have included a jump drive hit or a jump mishap chance on the surface damage results of the ship combat tables
(Something like each surface jump drive hit increases the task difficulty to jump until repairs are made.)
However, that there is something different between a spaceship and a starship hull has been in the rules since '77.
Also Marc's jumpspace article mentions:
"Starship hulls contain as an integral part of their structure a network of wiring which maintains the jump field around the ship."
DGP read this and extrapolated to make the jump grid - shame they didn't read:
"Breaks in the protective network within a starship hull are the primary cause of the loss of ships in jump."
Then they might have included a jump drive hit or a jump mishap chance on the surface damage results of the ship combat tables
(Something like each surface jump drive hit increases the task difficulty to jump until repairs are made.)
Starviking
SOC-13
Thanks for that Hans. That would seem to back up my point that damage to a 100 displacement ton starship is rather more serious jump-wise than that for a larger vessel.
No, you can strap cargo and all kinds of stuff between the modules.
Starviking
SOC-13
Hardly seems efficient, also depending on where the 'hollows' are I'm sure there could be problems accessing them easily.
So, any examples of ships like this? Definitions of how much hollow space they have? A definition of what exactly a Traveller dispersed hull configuration is?
Not unless the ship is specifically designed to increase its payload in that fashion, with bigger jump drives, etc..
Hans
Umm, the empty space between the frame work is already part of the tonnage. Thus already accounted for in the JD size calculations. The reason for open frame is so that you can place stuff (aux craft, etc.) easily inside the frame and launch quickly and what not. Think volume not mass.
I think you may be laboring under the misapprehension that 'dispersed structure' is synonymous with 'open frame'. An open frame is always a dispersed structure but a dispersed structure is not always an open frame. Indeed, I suspect that an open frame won't work for a starship (except when the stuff you carry has a jump grid of its own embedded).
Hans
Indeed, 'open frame' is a valid star ship design under MT. So, unless you can show a rule overriding the MT rules...
Open frame and dispersed are interchangeable terms.
So it is. It's an additional configuration (USP code 0) that HG didn't have. I hadn't noticed that.
But that's wrong. MT also renamed 'dispersed structure' to 'Irregular' (USP code 7). An open frame is defined by MT as "an open skeletal frame with no exterior covering". An Irregular structure a.k.a. a dispersed structure is defined as "a dispersed, modular exterior, which is not definable as any of the other possible configurations".
Did the open frame configuration appear in any other version of Traveller? The only one I've had time to check is T20, which doesn't have it.
Hans
fredofmars
SOC-12
Not when you take into account that Mr Miller can, and IIRC has changed his mind and decaonized something that was previously considered canon, or, decides that something not previously listed as canon now suddenly is.
Don't work that way, which is the whole reason I decided a loong time ago to do what I want in my games and to heck with the whole canon argument.
Shucks, even my ship design blows every thing up book 2 crew rules, MT for most things, incorporating TNE surface area and fusion power plant fuel, ect, ect, ect.
Having canon that has changed in the past, and may change in the future, can definitely be an annoyance. Having someone that can be contacted, and who can ABSOLUTELY define what actually is canon at any point in time is what I find marvelous. There are so many games (not to mention politics, religion, and many other societal elements) where there isn't a single source for "canon". It seems clear that you don't like the possibility of canon changing, but that's the way it is with Traveller.
Also marvelous is the opportunity for us to define what canon is in our own individual Traveller game universe(s). Thus your mashup design system is wonderful for you, and it might be worth some time to write it up for others to look over and decide if they want to use it for their Traveller universes - it just wouldn't be canon for the official Traveller universe unless Marc decided it was.
Crap, now I'm confused. I'll check GT. ... Didn't see it there.
MGT has - "distributed (made up of several sections, and incapable of entering an atmosphere or maintaining its shape under gravity)."
So, looks like a definition that has changed from edition to edition. The MT talked about being able to launch all craft in a single turn I believe.
BardicHeart
SOC-12
You guys have any idea how confusing all of this can be for someone new? 
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