What are "luxuries" in the ship design?

[far-trader]

From the book...

While the tonnage allocated to staterooms includes air refreshers,
passageways, mess halls, crew lounges and other living space, it
is often cramped and uncomfortable. Luxuries cost Cr. 100,000 per
ton, and make life on board ship more pleasant. Each ton of luxuries
counts as one level of the Steward skill for the purposes of carrying
passengers, and therefore allows a ship to carry middle and high
passage passengers without carrying a trained steward on board.

Per the rules later 1 unit (1ton, Cr100,000) of luxuries is enough to keep 2 high pax or 5 mid pax happy and sane for a week in jump space without a crew person tending to them.

So, what are "luxuries" that permit that? Are they different at different TLs? Are they different for different species? Or cultures? I'm sure the ideas are nearly as varied as the players and I've a couple of my own but I'm curious (without influencing) what others are thinking when they've been designing (especially deckplanning) and playing.

 

[atpollard]

For my money, I like a reclining rocker with a built in massager, a universal remote and a full wall video screen (plus 'Firefly: The Complete Series').

 

[far-trader]

So maybe some kind of deep VR set-up?

Which leads to more questions/clarifications of course

I'm picturing based on the rules that the "luxuries" are independent and separate from the actual stateroom tonnage allocation. And that High pax demand or are granted more usage of said luxuries than mid pax (as you're allowed to mix).

So something like a deep VR couch would be 1/2ton and Cr50,000 (half a luxuries appointment, though it's not clear you can buy in halfs) and a High pax would have full access to it through the trip. With two of them (a full luxuries appointment) would mean two High pax each with full access to one couch, or five Mid pax with each having access to one couch or the other 40% of the time. Right?

 

[far-trader]

OK, moving along (skipping the undue influence avoidance ) another option I'm considering is mechanical. As in robotic features. Stuff like:

Sophisticated Roomba's (perhaps grav powered) cleaning up messes (of High and Mid in the commons but only High in the staterooms); collecting, cleaning, and storing dirty clothes (only for High pax); stripping and making the beds daily (only for High pax).

Auto-Chef/Waiter (partly built-in, partly autonomous grav powered) cooking meals (3 a day for High pax, 1 a day for Mid pax) for the commons; in room delivery of meals (only for High pax); between meal service (only for High pax).

Medi-Bot (partly built-in, partly autonomous grav powered) diagnosing and treating minor ills (pill pusher mostly, spray on casts at most) in the commons (both High and Mid pax) or in the stateroom (High pax only).

 

[epicenter00]

If you travel a lot, think about what makes a good quality hotel room as opposed to a cheap one IRL, even. Since "luxuries" are relative to cultures, I think it'd obviously change depending on culture/species. But for instance:

* Good quality alcohol in a liquor cabinet, provided free of charge in an "all you can drink" format.
* Room service (robots) clean the room and change the linens every day, as well a new bathrobe and so on.
* Fresh fruit in the fruit basket.

Luxuries also involve choice:

* Would you like nanobot scrubber shampoo, favored by people on the run? Or would you prefer the guava/mango lifeblends shampoo as reputedly favored by rich and famous in the Solomani Rim?

* Would you like goose down pillow, thermoreactive synthetic fill, or plain cotton?

* Linen sheets, cotton sheets, silk sheets?

* A wide variety of entertainment programs for the console including games, educational, documentaries, films, and so on.

Wags might include:

* Videos of very scantily-clad and unclad attractive members of your species involved in reproductive acts provided 24/7.

* Free shots of the Fast Drug.

 

[GypsyComet]

Since this is design space and cost, and replaces the Steward skill, I suspect its going to cover things like a really high end auto-chef (allowing it to cater to either passenger level based on the supplies bought), gym space, a formal dining area, large format holo-entertainment suite, and similar.

 

[Icosahedron]

Bar, casino, shooting range, theatre, cinema, classroom, sports hall, gym, shop, ballroom, restaurant, garden, sun lounge - basically everything you go out of your house for back home.

 

[fiat_knox]

Food.

Fresh vegetables, meat that isn't made of protein concentrate but which actually came off some dead animal's haunch. Eggs and other perishables with a really short shelf life. Fish. Poultry meat.

When supermarkets are only a few yards away down the road, most folks have no idea just how much they would miss basic things like condiments, eggs and soft vegetables like tomatoes / fruit like oranges and bananas until they've spent a week away from such items.

Non-perishable food items would include tinned foodstuffs, preserved sausages of meat hanging up in the ship's larder, and a freezer to keep some supplies frozen in.

Bread. Butter (or the equivalent spread). Something to go in the bread, like jam / marmalade, cheese spread, ketchup. Hot dog sausages and buns. Relish, mustard, mayo.

Cake mix and icing sugar. No eggs required. Just add sugar and water, and nuke in a microwave. Just in case you have to get out a birthday cake for some passenger's kid's birthday.

Non-food items include air freshener sprays, deodorants, soap bars, shampoos, conditioners, hair sprays and makeup for those impromptu gatherings in the passenger common area during the designated evening shift whilst in Jump.

Party trimmings and similar decorations, to liven up the passenger common area during such trips.

Oh, and an industrial sandwich toaster, for the bread. People have rioted for the want of toast and marmalade for breakfast.

 

[fiat_knox]

I forgot to mention the three essentials nobody should ever go without, unless they are allergic to them and/or are tee total: a selection of cheeses, a variety of chocolates and a collection of fine, fine wines and sundry alcoholic beverages.

I mean, what sort of a sorry person finds himself a tee totaller and allergic to both cheese and chocolate?

 

[shield]

I would certainly add in entertainment systems, (TVs, IPODS, gaming consoles) simple food preparation systems (autochef, breadmakers etc.), a bit more space, a garden / relaxation area, anything that does the laundry

Cheers
Richard

 

[fiat_knox]

Features like entertainment systems, laundry and personal hygiene facilities tend to be incorporated into the design of each stateroom. Entertainment software, such as a networked console-based roleplaying game to be played between staterooms and in the passenger common area, tends not to weigh much at all.

Luxuries are bulk goods used to make the long, boring week in Jump a bit less dull and reperitive. Liquid latex and lube springs to mind.

But then liquid latex and lube would spring to my mind if I found myaelf contemplating bus ticket prices ...

 

[rancke]

* Good quality alcohol in a liquor cabinet, provided free of charge in an "all you can drink" format.
* Room service (robots) clean the room and change the linens every day, as well a new bathrobe and so on.
* Fresh fruit in the fruit basket.

Luxuries also involve choice:

* Would you like nanobot scrubber shampoo, favored by people on the run? Or would you prefer the guava/mango lifeblends shampoo as reputedly favored by rich and famous in the Solomani Rim?

* Would you like goose down pillow, thermoreactive synthetic fill, or plain cotton?

* Linen sheets, cotton sheets, silk sheets?

* A wide variety of entertainment programs for the console including games, educational, documentaries, films, and so on.

Wags might include:

* Videos of very scantily-clad and unclad attractive members of your species involved in reproductive acts provided 24/7.

* Free shots of the Fast Drug.

Very little of this require extra storage space and extra up-front building costs.


Hans

 

[fiat_knox]

I wouldn't say that. Luxury bedding, fluffy towels and expensive ship standard dressing gowns / night clothes can pack a lot of bulk.

 

[rancke]

Fresh vegetables, meat that isn't made of protein concentrate but which actually came off some dead animal's haunch. Eggs and other perishables with a really short shelf life. Fish. Poultry meat.

When supermarkets are only a few yards away down the road, most folks have no idea just how much they would miss basic things like condiments, eggs and soft vegetables like tomatoes / fruit like oranges and bananas until they've spent a week away from such items.

Non-perishable food items would include tinned foodstuffs, preserved sausages of meat hanging up in the ship's larder, and a freezer to keep some supplies frozen in.

Bread. Butter (or the equivalent spread). Something to go in the bread, like jam / marmalade, cheese spread, ketchup. Hot dog sausages and buns. Relish, mustard, mayo.

Cake mix and icing sugar. No eggs required. Just add sugar and water, and nuke in a microwave. Just in case you have to get out a birthday cake for some passenger's kid's birthday.

Even assuming that food preservation techniques reach their acme at TL8 (an extremely iffy assumption, IMO), it's already possible to provide very tasty meals with ten day old ingredients. Refrigiated and frozen food can keep for a lot longer than that. Eggs keep fresh for weeks in a refrigirator, meat for months in a freezer. Irradiated tomatoes can last for weeks outside a refrigerator. Buy your bananas and avocados green and they'll ripen in a number of days.

And again, what would the extra space be used for? Granted, if shipboard meals normally consist of microwave-heated MREs, then refrigiration and freezing will require extra spaced dedicated to a refrigirator and a freezer. But even if that's the case (and certainly some of the canonical deckplans would suggest that), you could feed an entire orphanage for months on the content of one 14 dT food preservation device.

And there's an argument to be made for the food already being of such high quality. It may not be refrigerated, but if you pay the equivalent of $100 for an MRE, it's probably a far more sophisticated MRE than you can get a TL8. Self-heating, can't-tell-it's-not-fresh, etc. Probably comes with a movie in the lid.

Non-food items include air freshener sprays, deodorants, soap bars, shampoos, conditioners, hair sprays and makeup for those impromptu gatherings in the passenger common area during the designated evening shift whilst in Jump.

Party trimmings and similar decorations, to liven up the passenger common area during such trips.

Oh, and an industrial sandwich toaster, for the bread. People have rioted for the want of toast and marmalade for breakfast.

It's likely that ordinary shipboard life already includes such refinements. Remember, the purser is paying the equivalent of $600 per day (Cr2,000 for a ten-day trip) for your food, air, and other consumables. And he's not going to be paying retail prices.


Hans

 

[Ran]

It's going to depend on the Tech Level that the ship was built at and by whom built it.

'Space Mormons' might have installed 1 ton of various hard cover books on philosophy and religion.

Where as a ship with the "Red light special" from Efate would like have a very... specific... VR simulation.

 

[fiat_knox]

Efate ⌧.

Of course some trickster with strong Computer skills could hack into the library database of those Space Mormons and swap out their Good Book stuff for said Efate ⌧ ...

Now that's a mission for the PCs right there ...

 

[far-trader]

Thank you everyone...

...all interesting replies, and much appreciated. However I'm starting to wonder even more just what the author was thinking. Repeating:

From the book...

While the tonnage allocated to staterooms includes air refreshers,
passageways, mess halls, crew lounges and other living space, it
is often cramped and uncomfortable.

"...and other living space..." pretty much covers a lot of the stuff mentioned so far. So "luxuries" should be something else. Granted...

"it is often cramped and uncomfortable." but that will depend on the size of the ship and the number of staterooms. It is not a true statement for all cases. Certainly with only a handful of staterooms space will be tight, but design (as I have) a multi-kiloton liner with hundreds of staterooms and there is plenty of room in the already allocated space for a bar, casino, swimming pool, gym, sauna, running track, firing range, theaters, shops... (all of which my ship had) or other stuff. Not the least bit cramped or uncomfortable. So it can't be "that" imo. Besides...

Luxuries cost Cr. 100,000 per ton, and make life on board ship more pleasant.

While there's no denying such things make life on board more pleasant, and they may cost that much...

Each ton of luxuries counts as one level of the Steward skill for the purposes of carrying passengers, and therefore allows a ship to carry middle and high passage passengers without carrying a trained steward on board.

This is the key imo. "Luxuries" replace what the Steward does. None of those amenities you've all suggested, nor any of the expendables mentioned, does that. And on the expendables while I'm thinking of it, "luxuries" can't be that either because it's a one time cost, not a per trip or per pax cost.

So, I'm convinced it is either very poorly named (at the best) or simply a lazy idea the author of which had no ideas or intent beyond "Steward is a boring skill, no PC wants it, let's make something so nobody needs it. That way the PCs can all have cool skillz like MFB Gun skill 8!" (at the worst). And I'm tending to lean more to the Bad Idea(tm) end of the scale but hoping to salvage it.

So, let's look at it fresh again (anyone who cares to). What could (let's not call it luxuries) Steward Modules be that are:

1ton and Cr100,000

Will keep 2 high pax or 5 mid pax happy and sane for a week in jump space without a crew person tending to them.

Of my own thoughts (breaking the room service into two) all that seem salvageable are:

• Auto-Maid (perhaps grav powered, not anthropomorphic) cleaning up messes (of High and Mid in the commons but only High in the staterooms); collecting, cleaning, and storing dirty clothes (only for High pax); stripping and making the beds daily (only for High pax).
• Auto-Chef (built in, not anthropomorphic) and Waiter(s) (autonomous grav powered, anthropomorphic with interactive personality software) cooking and serving meals (3 a day for High pax, 1 a day for Mid pax) for and in the commons; or in room service of meals (only for High pax); and between meal services (only for High pax).
• Auto-Valet(s) (autonomous grav powered, anthropomorphic with interactive personality software) to service requests of High pax (24/7) or Mid pax (during limited hours and only if not busy)

Even my simple Medi-Bot shouldn't be included. That's more a Medic's field and they aren't even required for passenger haulage.

But those are all bots. Bots which can be easily (I suppose) and more accurately modeled using the main book robotic/programming rules. They won't take up anywhere near as much room but may cost a lot more (so maybe the standard ship version of Steward in a Box is optimized for price at the expense of size). Again it leads me to think it really wasn't thought out very well though.

Moving along, any other ideas on what Stewards do and how to replace the function with tech? Or do the three above pretty much cover it all? Anyone interested in actually designing some main book bots to compare price and size to replace Steward skills?

 

[mbrinkhues]

How much for the Rashush(sp?)? Traveller has a generic TL13 Robot Maid in Book 8 IIRC.

 

[far-trader]

Snappy idea mbrinkhues, but I don't see it in Book 8.

EDIT: Ah, text search Rashush is indeed mentioned, and that's about the sum total of the mention It seems to refer to the Naasirka model explained a little later in Book 8:

"...servant robots are popular on very high tech worlds. For example Naasirka retails a standard model tech level 15 servant robot with an intelligence of 5 and an education of 1 for Cr77,500. The robot has a humanoid contoured chassis, understands basic commands, and has the equivalent of Steward-1, Valet-1, Vehicle-1, and Emotion Simulation."

With a "life" span of 85 years, on a 40 year loan that works out to Cr10 a day including maintenance. And I bet it takes a lot less than 1ton of space aboard ship, even including it's "Robot Arms" apartment (the first version of Bender's pad on Futurama, a closet about 0.5m square and 2m high). Apparently 101 Robots details the Rashush a little more with TL variants and pictures.

EDIT: Nope, don't see anything in JTAS either... but Mongoose does have a TL13 Servitor robot right there in the main book. Cr120,000 with Steward/2*. So much for spending CR300,000 and a full 3 tons of cargo space wasted to get the same with "Luxuries" Yeah, what is the point of "Luxuries" again? Maybe it's only for low tech ships?

* Even if that's only an effective Steward skill 1 (could they make the programming rules more confusing) it's still almost half the cost and a (negligible) fraction of the space.

 

[CosmicGamer]

1) Generalize
Some posts may be getting a little too detailed in the specific differences of what or how luxuries are provided to the different classes of passengers.

Steward skill 0 allows care for 2 high or 5 middle passengers. As with most things in the rules, this is a generalization. Two noble high passengers may require more steward skill than level 0. 7 tired, dirty, starving shipwreck survivors might be more than happy with one level 0 steward.

To me, it is simply that high passengers are given priority and more individualized attention to make them feel special. They take more of a stewards time. A higher level steward knows how to optimize their cooking, cleaning, and other duties so that they can care for more people.

Side note: How do you rationalize that a single level 4 steward can care for 25 people. Do they have more arms so that they can do more at once or do they require less sleep than a level 0 steward?

Anyways, back on point. I don't feel there is a need to get extremely specific in describing the difference between high and mid passenger care.

Using far-traders example:

[*]Auto-Maid (perhaps grav powered, not anthropomorphic) cleaning up messes (of High and Mid in the commons but only High in the staterooms); collecting, cleaning, and storing dirty clothes (only for High pax); stripping and making the beds daily (only for High pax).

Simply stating that an auto maid is one of the luxuries is fine. Maybe the high passengers can request their room to be cleaned at the press of a button but mid passengers get their room cleaned on a set schedule. There are a variety of ways to handle why it is 2 high passengers and 5 mid passengers. It could even differ from ship to ship.

2) Don't take it so literally
If a 4 ton stateroom is not exactly 4 tons, then perhaps 1 ton of luxuries is not exactly 1 ton.

3) What are luxuries vs what does a steward do?
On page 110 it states luxuries both

make life on board more pleasant

and

allows a ship to carry middle and high passage passengers without carrying a trained steward on board.

First, some luxuries could be nicer food, bedding, lighting, furniture - none of which takes more space.

Second, no steward at all? Perhaps that is something to think about. What are ALL the things a steward does that need to be replaced?
Boarding/Departing
Tour of ship and instructions on services
Cooking
Cleaning
Entertaining

What else?

4) Bots
The servitor bot on page 95 costs 120,000cr. It has Steward/2 program.
One interpretation would have steward abilities be at the expert programs rating -1. This would still allow care for twice the number of passengers as a level 0 steward, and would be equivalent to 2 tons of luxuries.

Who needs luxuries? Just get one of these bots for 120,000cr and it takes the place of 2 tons of space and 200,000cr of luxuries.

Perhaps there is a lower level of this bot that costs less.