What If?

[Antony]

Also very interested. What about material that I created and have placed on my website. Could this be repackaged or is it a first appearance here deal?

Now assuming I have read this thread right I could do stuff based on my United Nations of Humanity setting but not my TNE Banners Sector Stuff since that sector appears on a couple of maps and has a few states named?

 

[Flynn]

That does bring up a question: What if I have used the dot maps for stellar positions, but all the UWP data is completely new? (This also assumes that all names are changed to protect the innocent, etc.)

I think that walks the line on the OTU question, but I'm asking because there's some good work out there on alternate sectors and histories using the Solomani Rim as the position for stars as their basis... (Ex: http://www.skaran.net/starkingdom/starkingdom.html )

Hope this helps,
Flynn

 

[Jame]

I have a potential setting to contribute. Problem is, I haven't really typed anything about it, and I'm not sure if I would.

What I'm thinking is selling the setting itself, and letting others develop it.

 

[robject]

Count me interested.

 

[Chuck Anumia]

I have a paper called the Caste of Assassins Mercenary Corps Articles of Operation, Honor and Code of Conduct. The Articles include enlitment,our motto, contracts, Standard Operating Procerdures, our view on Ransom, Code of Conduct, returning fire, leadership responsabilities and enlisted member responsabilities (9 pages total).

This is simply the rules of engagement used by a band of Mercenarys In My Univeres. It is generic enough to be used in any system and at any Technology level.

Would this qualify as a valid Product?

 

[kaladorn]

Seems to me that it could be generic enough Chuck, though you'd have to skirt around mentioning things like the Imperial Rules of War, etc.

It certainly could be a good generic document or at least a pattern usable for a referee wanting to run merc campaigns. I imagine that would be interesting, actually.

Mind you, it'd be more interesting if you could detail the Imperium's view of mercenaries, the degree of compliance with Imperial Law, etc. but obviously that is a whole other ball of wax.

 

[clementk]

Originally posted by kaladorn:

7) Doug Berry, in ACQ, published a half page table (half of an LBB page) that associated various task difficulties in various systems (T4, TNE, MT, CT, GT - I don't think T20 was in there but I forget).

If you're referring to the BITS Task system (which is online at the BITS site) - it predated T20 but there's an unofficial extension to it that started on CotI and is on the Freelance Traveller site.

Originally posted by kaladorn:
It certainly could be a good generic document or at least a pattern usable for a referee wanting to run merc campaigns. I imagine that would be interesting, actually.

Mind you, it'd be more interesting if you could detail the Imperium's view of mercenaries

Generic is good though with campaign specific notes is fine if the campaign setting is also available.

As for Imperium stuff there's GT: Star Mercs and one of the recent Epics.

 

[Flynn]

What would people want to see of a "Generic" nature? Books on starships, vehicles, robots, etc.? New sectors and background for an alternate universe compatible with Traveller rules? Adventures? I must admit that I'm curious as to what the general Traveller fan would like to see...

Also, as for the BITS task system, I think we'd need permission from BITS before publishing it. As the author of the unofficial T20 extension, I've designated it as Open Game Content, so you can use it in any of your books, so long as you update your Section 15 on the OGL in your product to reflect its source.

More later,
Flynn

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by Casey:
If you're referring to the BITS Task system (which is online at the BITS site) - it predated T20 but there's an unofficial extension to it that started on CotI and is on the Freelance Traveller site.

No, don't think so. BITS task system might be in there. But the table I'm speaking of basically says:

Task Difficulty
CT MT TNE GT BITS T20
........
.......
........

For each, it lists corresponding difficulties and maps one system to the other. The only *missing* part, IMO, is mapping of dice DMs, because a +1 DM for a system where you throw 5 dice for a task for a target number of 20 and a system where you throw 2D for a task with a target number of 11 aren't equal in effect. That's the only thing I'd have liked to see added.

But the general idea was it allowed Doug to talk about one particular difficulty level, and knowing he meant T4, you could look at the chart and figure out what it was in your chosen ruleset (since I do not like T4 at all, at all!).

So, that's what I'm suggesting should be completed and made public domain - that half page explanation/chart. Thus a supplement could include that.

 

[kaladorn]

Generic?

If you have access, Lee's Guide To Adventure was great as a basis for generic adventures. Each adventure listed a UWP profile (range of values which work for that adventure) and some suggestions of good places in the SM or SolRim to put things.

For my mind, what interests me:
Deckplans (Liners large and small, tramp freighters, large cargo haulers, fast couriers, small military and pirate ships, space stations and orbital habitats, etc)
Adventures (that can be plunked down in any sector)
Vehicles (with stats for several rules editions and if I'm lucky, pictures)
Equipment (ditto)
Robots (ditto)
A new world generation system (that produces rational UWPs)
Background bits like the Mercenary Code, etc. which are suitably generic enough to be plunked into the OTU, YTU, MTU, or even in another non-TU game.
Advice on running traveller games.
101 NPCs with some interesting (but non-OTU specific) backgrounds
101 Cargos
101 Passengers

Etc.

 

[Chuck Anumia]

Originally posted by kaladorn:
Generic?


For my mind, what interests me:
Deckplans (Liners large and small, tramp freighters, large cargo haulers, fast couriers, small military and pirate ships, space stations and orbital habitats, etc)
Adventures (that can be plunked down in any sector)
Vehicles (with stats for several rules editions and if I'm lucky, pictures)
Equipment (ditto)
Robots (ditto)
A new world generation system (that produces rational UWPs)
Background bits like the Mercenary Code, etc. which are suitably generic enough to be plunked into the OTU, YTU, MTU, or even in another non-TU game.
Advice on running traveller games.
101 NPCs with some interesting (but non-OTU specific) backgrounds
101 Cargos
101 Passengers

Etc.

I would also like to see some of the completed lists found in the thread about some top 20 lists.

 

[Flynn]

Is there any interest in an ATU that is Traveller-rules-compatible? From the sounds of it, there's little or none.

-Flynn

 

[jappel]

Coming in to this a bit late, but here's my CR 0.2:

- The basic idea is fantastic. It reminds me a lot of the way things seemed to work back in the early days.

- With all respect to Hans and others, there are many of us who are perfectly fine picturing Traveller without the OTU. To my mind, this seems to be a good mechanism for these alternative settings to see the light of day. Whether there's an actual market for true alternative Traveller settings is another question. (FWIW, I don't consider the Aldenata/Honorverse settings as "alternate Traveller settings" - they have completely different base assumptions than Traveller.)

- Others have already hit on the trickiest problem: decoupling the rules from the setting. Hunter stated he felt that TAS was embedded in the OTU, but TAS appeared in the very first edition of Book 1, before the OTU even existed, even in MWM's mind, if I recall things Loren and others have written correctly. But that's pretty easy compared to the items embedded in the character generation in, say, Scouts and Merchant Prince.

Perhaps what's needed as a precursor is something like the SRD: a stripped down version of the various core rule-sets, purged of the 3I setting. Perhaps the "cleaned up CT" idea Hunter tossed out last year?

- I'm leery of the "fan review panel". Volunteer efforts like that are always tricky to set up and difficult to sustain. There's also the very real danger of individuals allowing personal bias to cloud their judgements, and, frankly, some things may just turn out to be a matter of personal taste. I think the buying public would be quick to identify offending products, and TPTB can act on them then. It's either that or pre-screen them themselves, IMHO.

The devil is surely in the details.

The more I think about it, the more I believe that expurgated versions of the rules are needed as a precursor to this taking off.

-John

 

[Antony]

Well I have an ATU setting already mentioned. My UNH/Starkingdom of Swan campaign which uses the Solomani Rim placement of stars. This uses TNE rules and FF&S1. I suppose I could redo the stellar placements for some stars, but many in this Sector are supposed to represent "real" stars. How far can I move Alpha Centauri or Barnard's Star anyway. While as previously mentioned I would be interested in doing stuff when I asked people about doing a PDF based on the Starkingdom material from memory I got exactly zero response.

This implies to me that no people are not interested in ATU settings, but they do appear to be interested in expanding the OTU which they cannot do without a full licence.

 

[Chuck Anumia]

Here is another thought:
How about a retro to the Vilani Imperium?
Pre Jump 3 perhaps where the Vilani have the Jump advantage over rival civilizations and are trying to take over the stars by economic methods.

Or

How abot the end of the long night campaign?

 

[Flynn]

Sorry, cweiskircher, but we aren't allowed to touch the OTU with this form of limited license. So no "pre-VI" or "Long Night", at least, not one set in the OTU.

Antony, I'm all for you doing your ATU loud and proud. It's the reason why I asked about the stellar placement earlier.

It does look like an ATU may not be a consumer success, but if you're doing it for fun rather than profit, it's a chance to get your ideas out there. Personally, I'd say, "Go for it!"

Hope this helps,
Flynn

 

[Chuck Anumia]

Originally posted by Flynn:
Sorry, cweiskircher, but we aren't allowed to touch the OTU with this form of limited license. So no "pre-VI" or "Long Night", at least, not one set in the OTU.

Flynn

Thanks for the clarification Flynn. There is still a great big universe with thousands of oportunities for adventure out there to play with.

I will keep an open mind.

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by Antony:
This implies to me that no people are not interested in ATU settings, but they do appear to be interested in expanding the OTU which they cannot do without a full licence.

Keep in mind, people interested in an ATU generally have one in mind. Those that aren't as interested have the OTU. So you'd always be dealing with a smaller market (a segment of a small market to begin with).

I mean, sure, if you trot out something neat and fancy and someone says good things about the finished product, there are folks who'd probably shell out a few bucks for it. But sight unseen and without a lot of work and detail in it (visibly in an external sense)?

The OTU has lots of traction because it has lots of history established and a vast body of work already in place. I'm sure it was greeted ho hum initially too - to a large extent, early traveller was devoid of an OTU, and so people made up their own. The OTU sort of crept in piecemeal. That tells me it probably didn't generate instant fascination. Anyone who picked up the game initially didn't have an OTU, and had probably already started with their own ATU.

Then, after a certain point, the OTU was omnipresent. So people starting the game then had an OTU, so most of them never looked further, and since the OTU was good to them (if they stayed in the game at all), it still is.

So yes, an ATU is interesting, in an academic sense. If fully realized, some people will probably take a look at it and throw in a buck or two. But by en large, you're pitching to a smaller crowd. And without product in hand, you're asking for interest.

I don't want that to sound harsh or condemning or anything. The truth is, I think alternate TUs are kind of interesting. But at this juncture, I have several running games inside the OTU and thus I'm less interested myself, except in the theoretical sense. Doesn't mean you shouldn't try to pursue it, but I'd suggest that this is clearly a case where you are prospecting - you are hoping that when you produce something from it, people will begin to develop an interest.

For some reason, the Traveller speculative trade model comes to mind.

Good luck though!

 

[Antony]

Well I am doing a lot of stuff on the UNH/Starkingdom of Swan setting at the moment. Moving the Starkingdoms setup a bit (seems a bit close to the Honorverse at the moment). Work on a different background for the Daanan etc.

Perhaps a sector book first. But then do I need to move the stars so the dot map isn't that of the Solomani Rim, enthusiastic people want to know.

 

[Jeff M. Hopper]

Well, I think that there is a lot of interest for ATU out there. Traveller was initially designed as a generic science fiction rules set for RPGs. The OTU didn't start until a few years after the original LBBs came out. Now, the OTU has got almost three decades worth of time and material to support it - so its going to be the Big Man On Campus, comparitively. Yet, by allowing ATU suppliments to be created and placed up for sale you are doing two things - you are cultivating a new generation of writers who may be tapped for work, and you are demonstrating what the rules mechanic can do when it is unfettered by canon. Some of these products will flourish and some will fail, based on their commercial success. Who knows, if this limited license idea is approved then we may see the beginnings of the next FASA through it.

I'd also like to point out that it is possible to create ATU material that is stand-alone, yet completely compatible with the OTU.