What If?

[Chuck Anumia]

Originally posted by Jeff M. Hopper:


I'd also like to point out that it is possible to create ATU material that is stand-alone, yet completely compatible with the OTU.

I agree. I can see through the adventures and materials I have created that are generic enough to be used anywhere in a science fiction setting that an ATU is not only possible but perhaps preferable.

Sure, having detailed history and a concise explanation of why things are as they are is good background. But is it necessary for us to have just one "History of the Universe" to set up our games in? OTU is mainly built on what history says (UWP's, Governments, etc.)

Could we who will play the game as we make it up not also create our own history or play in a universe with a different history created for us while keeping the terms we are used to?

This could give us flexability or it could confuse many.

 

[Flynn]

As I think more on the subject, the following occurred to me:

Considering that, in T20, the alien racial data for character creation is OGC, does that mean that the races themselves (but not their history) are open for use and reference in these limited license products?

Just asking,
Flynn

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Wow, Hunter asks a question and 6 days later, there are 5 pages of interaction on that question. I think that means there is a lot of interest, but some definite work to be done.

 

[kaladorn]

Flynn brings up a good question:
Are races, considering they have a mechanical component in character generation, description, considered to be generic or OTU canon? I mean, socially, I could conceive of Aslan in non-OTU settings, but they are definitely in the OTU. So where do they fit? (Generalizing, this applies to all races)

So it might be, at a guess, acceptable to have an Aslan appear in a module as an NPC, but not explain anything about the culture of the Aslan particularly. You could describe how this *particular* Aslan behaves, but perhaps not things like how all Aslan behave generally?

Or are the races out too? Or are the generic and entirely fair game?

And if I can't use Aslan, is there anything that prohibits me from having a large male leonine alien with somewhat samurai like tendencies? It seems generic enough that it wouldn't infringe anything, but it would be instantly recognizable to any Traveller player as what it really was an hommage to.

I guess the earlier posters had the right of it:
There is a lot of entanglement between setting and rules and that would need to be clearly split out and spelled out.

On the ATU front, I wasn't suggesting an ATU was a bad thing, merely trying to point out reasons why the first mention of an ATU, nor the attempts to solicit interest in the ATU in question, might have resulted in not much response. I think my premises about the smaller market for ATUs and the weight of OTU accumulated body-of-work vs. an as yet-not-presented ATU have a lot to do with that reality. I don't deny an ATU might be fine, but I think there are logical reasons it might not garner interest initially from a large body of people.

 

[clementk]

I'm pretty sure that race names are not considered open content in T20 and are also considered IP etc. in the back of the THB. So by extension my thinking is that you could use the stats but not the names. Call Aslan cat-people or something. For that matter you can already do that in a d20 / OGL product totally unrelated to Traveller.

As for ATUs, well that goes back to the whole just what is traveller debate. Me I'd like to see a ATU fleshed out that isn't the OTU nor bound by the rules that make OTU-esque 'verses the norm for CT/MT/T4/and to some extent T20. Products like that I would definitely be interested in and it's something that, as I said in a prior post, would likely be enough work that some payment would really help spur development. Sure you're not going to make much money likely, but it's better than getting nothing.

Casey (is no lawyer though and is not looking at the books)

 

[Antony]

Well all this is true, but it has not answered whether we can use the dot maps for star locations, like the Solomani Rim which I used, or whether I need to redo stellar placement, which I can certainly do. I have a different vesrion of a sector map for this universe (though still 2D for ease of play). But it would certainly make my task easier if I can retain the Solomani Rim stellar locations.

 

[Jeff M. Hopper]

I've gotta ask this, because it could become very relevant. Is 2320AD considered an Alternate Traveller Universe or is it an Official Traveller Universe, expect specific for 2320AD?

 

[Jame]

Come to think of it, I have another setting, with polities and the planets for the one the PCs can use plus a (very) short history. Hunter, if you'd like to see it give me an email/PM (if anyone else wants to see it fine, but I'm trying to sell it and this might cause problems).

 

[kaladorn]

Do you have a 2300 link?
And do you have a link to a part of your Dad's site that does not require the plugins I don't have?

 

[Flynn]

I'm hopeful that Hunter will post soon on the current standings regarding these efforts. I have a few things on the back burner that I'd like to develop, including providing a new setting around which others can create use to create adventures and run campaigns.

The setting would focus on elements presented by the more vocal proponents of reshaping the OTU that have been made over the last five years or so: smaller polities, higher tech core worlds with lower tech frontiers, worlds with somewhat more reasonable UWPs, etc. I've learned a lot from the 1248 UWP experience, and am practicing it with the Empty Quarter sector. I'd like to see how well it would work on a larger project.

By the same token, I'd hate to put in all the work, and then find out that there's no way I could get it out into the open, aside from just posting it somewhere on the web. Especially when I could be doing work that would be better received elsewhere.

Looking forward to further comments from Hunter,
Flynn

 

[Chuck Anumia]

Another thought occured to me.

Is Jump drive a part of OTU?

Would we have to give it a generic name or do game mechanics have to change the way we travel across the stars?

 

[Flynn]

To my understanding, Jump drive is a part of the game mechanics of Traveller, and can be used for mechanical compatibility. It is not something that is restricted to the OTU. However, I'm not an official on these things, and would wait to see what Hunter posts in regards to this question and others.

-Flynn

 

[kaladorn]

I'm guessing since Jump Drive is a ship component and since how far you can move on a map is defined by that, it is a 'mechanical' item present in the rules.

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by jappel:
With all respect to Hans and others, there are many of us who are perfectly fine picturing Traveller without the OTU.

Oh, I know. In fact, I know I am in the minority (because of a poll some years ago about what people considered the essential elements in Traveller).

To be brutally frank, I don't see the point of non-OTU Traveller. I'm sorry to confess that I don't really think the Traveller rules (any of the sets) are all that good. If you want to write a generic adventure, why not keep the mechanics completely out of it?

But if you do see the point, then by all means go for it.


Hans

 

[Flynn]

By means of summary so far...

Ten Questions For Hunter Gordon... Okay, So It's More Than Ten Questions

1. Do you have an idea of what the license fee schedule looks like, at this time? (Ron Vutpakdi)

2. Can you use material that purposefully diverges from the OTU at some point? (Sir Dameon Toth)

3. Will there be a standard format required for limited license products? If so, what are the details of that format? (Randy Tyler)

4. Can someone produce a concise, non-background version of a particular Traveller rules set under this license? If not, can one be produced by either Hunter or Marc to use as a set of guidelines, similar to the SRD, of what's considered non-OTU and game-mechanics related? (Casey)

5. What are your thoughts on a review panel, and how do you feel such would impact delivery schedules, etc.? (Various)

6. Will the buyers of this limited license be listed on the catalog page here like Ronin Arts and Loren K Wiseman are (once products are made available)? (Randy Tyler)

7. Will limited license holders have an independent way to upload their products to the catalog instead of relying on you to upload it for them? (Randy Tyler)

8. Is there any reason we couldn't have a license that lets us involve the OTU in approximately as much detail as the current Fair Use policy permits? (Kaladorn)

9. Are standard deck plan icons from the various deck plan supplements fair game? (Kaladorn)

10. Would an LBB-like feel (say convincing Berka to let me use the LBB book cover generator to produce a nice cover) be an infringement of anyone's designs/rights? (Kaladorn)

11. Supplements which offer alternate or extended rules - would that be acceptable? (Kaladorn)

12. Conjecturally, the author still holds copyright. Does this imply they can withdraw their permission to produce and distribute an item if they wish? (Kaladorn)

13. Doug Berry, in ACQ, published a half page table (half of an LBB page) that associated various task difficulties in various systems (T4, TNE, MT, CT, GT - I don't think T20 was in there but I forget). He didn't explain their systems, he didn't do much more than say 'they exist' and establish a mapping between task difficulty levels. This chart allowed him to then talk in terms of difficulty levels for all of his rules - and each GM could apply his own appropriate conversion. Would something like this be acceptable? I mean, do you need SJG's permission to publish a small chart that equates a Difficult Task to a particular difficulty under GT? If so, perhaps QLI or Marc should work with the various licensees and make this one half page chart 'public domain' and thereby usable as a reference by all Traveller authors. I mean, what it does do is really allow for generic game rules and for portability to other systems... and that should be good for *all* Traveller licensees. (Kaladorn)

14. What about material that I created and have placed on my website. Could this be repackaged or is it a first appearance here deal? (Antony)

15. What if I have used the dot maps for stellar positions, but all the UWP data is completely new? (This also assumes that all names are changed to protect the innocent, etc.) (Flynn)

16. Considering that, in T20, the alien racial data for character creation is OGC, does that mean that the races themselves (but not their history) are open for use and reference in these limited license products? (Flynn)

17. Is 2320AD considered an Alternate Traveller Universe or is it an Official Traveller Universe, expect specific for 2320AD? (Jeff M. Hopper)

18. Is Jump drive a part of OTU? (cweiskircher)

Hope this helps,
Flynn

 

[Flynn]

*bump*

Hunter, do you think you might be able to answer some of the 18 questions I've gathered for you, above? (Guess this makes the 19th question for Hunter, huh? )

Thanks in advance,
Flynn

 

[Antony]

We get the tantalising idea of being able to produce licenced stuff then everything goes quiet.

Perhaps too quiet?

 

[Flynn]

I've sent Hunter a PM about the topic, as I'm sure others have, and I'm hoping to hear back soon. I'm sure things don't necessarily move quickly when discussing the legal ramifications of something like this, but I'm hopeful that we'll be kept apprise of any developments.

Perhaps once the matter is further developed, then the eighteen questions above might be easier to answer.

Looking forward to some news,
Flynn

 

[Flynn]

Hunter,

I know you've been working hard on the new deckplan supplements, but I was wondering if you might be able to let us know how the limited license concept is coming along?

Thanks in advance,
Flynn

 

[Flynn]

Repeating these questions as a reminder...

Eighteen Questions For Hunter Gordon

1. Do you have an idea of what the license fee schedule looks like, at this time? (Ron Vutpakdi)

2. Can you use material that purposefully diverges from the OTU at some point? (Sir Dameon Toth)

3. Will there be a standard format required for limited license products? If so, what are the details of that format? (Randy Tyler)

4. Can someone produce a concise, non-background version of a particular Traveller rules set under this license? If not, can one be produced by either Hunter or Marc to use as a set of guidelines, similar to the SRD, of what's considered non-OTU and game-mechanics related? (Casey)

5. What are your thoughts on a review panel, and how do you feel such would impact delivery schedules, etc.? (Various)

6. Will the buyers of this limited license be listed on the catalog page here like Ronin Arts and Loren K Wiseman are (once products are made available)? (Randy Tyler)

7. Will limited license holders have an independent way to upload their products to the catalog instead of relying on you to upload it for them? (Randy Tyler)

8. Is there any reason we couldn't have a license that lets us involve the OTU in approximately as much detail as the current Fair Use policy permits? (Kaladorn)

9. Are standard deck plan icons from the various deck plan supplements fair game? (Kaladorn)

10. Would an LBB-like feel (say convincing Berka to let me use the LBB book cover generator to produce a nice cover) be an infringement of anyone's designs/rights? (Kaladorn)

11. Supplements which offer alternate or extended rules - would that be acceptable? (Kaladorn)

12. Conjecturally, the author still holds copyright. Does this imply they can withdraw their permission to produce and distribute an item if they wish? (Kaladorn)

13. Doug Berry, in ACQ, published a half page table (half of an LBB page) that associated various task difficulties in various systems (T4, TNE, MT, CT, GT - I don't think T20 was in there but I forget). He didn't explain their systems, he didn't do much more than say 'they exist' and establish a mapping between task difficulty levels. This chart allowed him to then talk in terms of difficulty levels for all of his rules - and each GM could apply his own appropriate conversion. Would something like this be acceptable? I mean, do you need SJG's permission to publish a small chart that equates a Difficult Task to a particular difficulty under GT? If so, perhaps QLI or Marc should work with the various licensees and make this one half page chart 'public domain' and thereby usable as a reference by all Traveller authors. I mean, what it does do is really allow for generic game rules and for portability to other systems... and that should be good for *all* Traveller licensees. (Kaladorn)

14. What about material that I created and have placed on my website. Could this be repackaged or is it a first appearance here deal? (Antony)

15. What if I have used the dot maps for stellar positions, but all the UWP data is completely new? (This also assumes that all names are changed to protect the innocent, etc.) (Flynn)

16. Considering that, in T20, the alien racial data for character creation is OGC, does that mean that the races themselves (but not their history) are open for use and reference in these limited license products? (Flynn)

17. Is 2320AD considered an Alternate Traveller Universe or is it an Official Traveller Universe, expect specific for 2320AD? (Jeff M. Hopper)

18. Is Jump drive a part of OTU? (cweiskircher)

With Regards,
Flynn