What is a Naval Base?

[dean]

Have to agree with Magnus here.

The biggest ships never land, many of the smaller ones aren't streamlined, a ground-sited base would have to be huge, making security of the ships problematic, and the whole idea of having your interstellar military force tied to a ground operation seems ludicrous.

I do see a small-to-medium sized ground installation, a large naval repair/refit yard (if not a shipyard in it's own right) in orbit, several buffered planetoid sentry bases / monitors for the defense of the facility, probably with their own assigned fighter squadrons and high M-and Agility corvettes to keep the wackos/terrorists/spies away.

Around any planet with a decent climate or chance for liberty would have a fairly extensive ground base, and any world with a good food-producing base or TL respectable enough to produce parts and supplies would have an extensive QM / supply procurement / warehousing zone, along with suitable contracts to / ships to lift said supplies to the high base.

 

[robject]

Here's what I've got from TTA, TTB, FSotSI, and RS.

0. Naval bases can be ground-based or orbital. Ground-based service ships up to 1000 tons.
1. Naval bases do have support facilities (e.g. maintenance, repair, refit) for naval vessels (and scrounging).
2. Naval bases can have support for Imperial Fleet squadrons.
3. Naval bases do have areas where people (veterans, patrons) may interact.
4. Naval bases can be supported by local means. Some might need long-term life support.
5. Naval bases are probably secure.
6. They do not have to be part of the starport, or near it.

 

[Dragoner]

Sounds good to me.

 

[Murphy]

There is no evidence of a strong defense for the Naval Base on Aramis. (TTA)

Aramis that you speak of is a subsector capital, and an Imperial noble's fief to boot. Security on a Naval base there would be built against infiltration, not open assault.

Now, if the Imperium were to build a base on, say, Beck's World, that would require fortification or placing it on a moon, or in orbit around a gas giant.

 

[aramis]

So then if a Startown forms around the Starport, what forms around a Naval base or Scout base? I would think there would shops and services specific to both. And the local population would probably want to take advantage of the 'liberty' opportunities (legally and criminally) of both Naval and Scout personnel, too. Just like they do around most modern Naval bases.

Sorry if we're going slightly off topic. Though, I think it could be part of: "What is a Naval Base?"

At Aramis, the startown joins the Scout Base, downport, and Naasiraka yards. (TTA). The Navy base is on the far side of the starport from the startown.

NY  SB  
    ST  City
LP  SP City
    NB  Min

Min is the mining district.

And yes, these are all downport facilities.

 

[BlackBat242]

The part everyone seems to be missing is exactly what is the base supposed to be doing?

Is it a permanent base supporting a battle fleet? Its huge, with major ship repair facilities.

Is it only for supporting a small patrol squadron? Its small, with only minor repair facilities... likely either part of a starport leased from a local system or a temporary base in the form of a single large repair/support ship (similar to the destroyer tenders & floating drydocks of WW2).

Is it a front-area operations base along a fluid front? Its completely composed of repair ships, supply ships, and other support ships, that can be moved en-masse to another system when the front shifts either towards or away from Imperial space.



And the issue of dependents... only permanent bases in settled areas would likely house dependents.

Frontier bases or bases in "hot" areas would be "unattached tours", with personnel and/or ships assigned for shorter terms than with the "safer" bases.

 

[Hemdian]

Back in 2003 I took a stab at trying to define naval bases and came up with the UNP (Universal Navy base Profile).

 

[McPerth]

0. Naval bases can be ground-based or orbital. Ground-based service ships up to 1000 tons.
1. Naval bases do have support facilities (e.g. maintenance, repair, refit) for naval vessels (and scrounging).
2. Naval bases can have support for Imperial Fleet squadrons.

And how many Imperial Navy sips are under 1000 dtons?

I think that most of the base must be orbital, if it has to serve the IN, as trying to do so from dirtside, via shuttles, would be even more inefficient and slow, and while efficiency might not be a priority for governments, speed uses to be a priority for repair and support while in a crisis (when they are most needed).

4. Naval bases can be supported by local means. Some might need long-term life support.

But there are quite a few IN bases that cannot be supported by local population, either for lack of it (e.g. Pixie, SM 1903, pop 1) or for lack of TL (e.g. Icetina, SM 2418, TL7).

6. They do not have to be part of the starport, or near it.

I guess most are, in their dirtside part, or this dirstide part should be larger, at least squivalent to a spaceport.

As for high port part of the base, I guess it's nearly always independent from any civilian high port, mostly for security reasons (both in the base, and in the civilian high post, should the base come under attack).

 

[robject]

And how many Imperial Navy sips are under 1000 dtons?

I think BlackBat was coming up with the same question. To which I have no knowledge.

HOWEVER...

If the CruRon 219, which the naval base on Aramis supports, contains Big Cruisers -- i.e. more than 1,000 tons -- then the Aramis starport has a heretofore unknown, unmentioned, undocumented orbital naval base.

Very interesting.

Now, there is the possibility that CruRon 219 is a squadron of Patrol Cruisers, or some other ACS which has the mission code of "Cruiser". It's not really what I'd expect, except that Leedor Naval Base has no mention of an orbital port, and the base itself seems pretty tiny to me.

But if eight patrol cruiser can be called a "CruRun" with a straight face, then that has widespread implications.

So, all I can give in reply is more questions.

...there are quite a few IN bases that cannot be supported by local population, either for lack of it (e.g. Pixie, SM 1903, pop 1) or for lack of TL (e.g. Icetina, SM 2418, TL7).

Then they must have some combination of "yeast-vat-equivalents" and long-term life support (MREs?) shipped in occasionally. Sounds like an interesting problem.

 

[rancke]

Aside from the IISS, they are the only presence of the Imperium.

Ecept Imperial Army camps, Imperial legations/embassies, Imperial consulates, and any offices of any Imperial organization there may be on a world.



Hans

 

[Timerover51]

Just curious, but how many of those posting have ever been on a Navy, Army, Air Force, or Marine base on Earth?

In looking through the posts, I do not seem to remember the word "training" mentioned. Most of that is very likely going to be done on a planet.

Lastly, the US Coast Artillery Corps which was responsible for coastal defenses, using both land-based guns and underwater controlled minefields, was disbanded in 1950, leaving it up to the Navy and Air Force. I suspect that would also be the case in the Imperium for the most part. No base defenses beyond security except in exceptional cases.

 

[pendragonman]

Just curious, but how many of those posting have ever been on a Navy, Army, Air Force, or Marine base on Earth?

In looking through the posts, I do not seem to remember the word "training" mentioned. Most of that is very likely going to be done on a planet.

At least the simulators and atmosphere based exercises anyway. FTXs will be regularly run for all units, at least quarterly, to maintain and measure readiness.

And where are the Imperial gun ranges?

 

[BillDowns]

Somewhere, and I can't find it right now, I always had the impression that naval and scout bases were almost always around a Gas Giant and not the main world. Convenience of fuel, security, not endangering the locals would all be good reasons for that.

And where are the Imperial gun ranges?

They aren't close to the base - don't want newbies blowing up the facilities!
:rofl:

 

[McPerth]

Just curious, but how many of those posting have ever been on a Navy, Army, Air Force, or Marine base on Earth?

Not me. I've already pointed in several threads my RW inexperience in military matters.

In looking through the posts, I do not seem to remember the word "training" mentioned. Most of that is very likely going to be done on a planet.

I'm not sure most training will be done dirtside. I guess it will depend on the kind of planet you're on and the kind of training you want.

For ship training (I guess the most important for Navy), I'm pretty sure it won't be done in the planet, but elsewhere in the system. Same for ship gunnery.

About Marine (or Imperial Army, if it exists, I don't want to open again this discussion here), some training could be done on planet, but for many skills (mostly boarding, zero G and high energy weapons) might as well be done in space or other planets in the system, even for security reasons (both against spies/sabotators and for the safety of the civilians nearby).

 

[far-trader]

For ship training (I guess the most important for Navy), I'm pretty sure it won't be done in the planet, but elsewhere in the system. Same for ship gunnery.

Except for (not forgetting) the Forward Observer and ortillery training of course

 

[aramis]

Just curious, but how many of those posting have ever been on a Navy, Army, Air Force, or Marine base on Earth?

In looking through the posts, I do not seem to remember the word "training" mentioned. Most of that is very likely going to be done on a planet.

Lastly, the US Coast Artillery Corps which was responsible for coastal defenses, using both land-based guns and underwater controlled minefields, was disbanded in 1950, leaving it up to the Navy and Air Force. I suspect that would also be the case in the Imperium for the most part. No base defenses beyond security except in exceptional cases.

Been to all of the above.

Training is a vital component - but the question becomes "how many training bases per sector does the IN need?" - and as a historical note, the answer can be as low as "none" even for a technological navy. Some navies even now conduct all their training shipboard. I've seen photos of the Liberian Navy (hah!) conducting basic training aboard one of their "ships"...

 

[rancke]

Just curious, but how many of those posting have ever been on a Navy, Army, Air Force, or Marine base on Earth?

Not me. My knowledge of the subject is entirely vicarious. I've read a biography by Peter Bull and a couple of novels by John Winton, both former Lieutenant-Commanders, and, of course, a number of military SF. And a few other books (not counting a large number of Napoleonic Era books) that I can't recall the titles of, which is quite thouroughly muddle up in my mind by now (I have two distinct and mutually exclusive recollections of something I read about the British Navy in C. Northcote Parkinsson's Parkinsson's Law o.


Hans

 

[pendragonman]

Just curious, but how many of those posting have ever been on a Navy, Army, Air Force, or Marine base on Earth?

I am ex-Army, Armored Cav to be exact. I lived next to SAC headquarters and at least once a month was on the base for some reason or another.

My best Friend, who happens to be publishing a supplement for Mongoose Trav., was in submarines. Never got to see his base or boat, though. On the other hand, I had to load my battalion's tracks onto Ro-Ros...

And yes, there is SOME kind of training going on at every base. In many it is simulated, or on simulators, but it is training.

 

[rancke]

b. Leedor naval base on Aramis is small, and supports CruRon 219. If I take FSoTSI at face value, that's four cruisers, two Scouts, an auxiliary, and four escorts.

I don't think you should take FSotSI at face value. The squadrons featured therein are probably representative of squadrons after years of hard fighting. CruRon 219 is probably nominally 8 cruisrs (four CruDivs[*]) plus some auxiliaries. ). I'd say four Scouts, two auxiliaries, and eight escorts, but I'm not sure the attrition would have been the same for the small fry as for the cruisers. I'm tempted to add several Fleet Couriers, if not the the CruRon then to Fleet HQ.

[*] (A number of squadrons would not be up to their nominal levels, so CruRon 219 could arguably have only three divisions[**]

[**] Except this is probably the most powerful subdivision of the fleet; on that account I'd expect it to be full up and composed of heavy cruisers.​

​

Some interesting speculations arise: What is stationed at the naval bases at Loul d'Dieu and Natoko? And what the **** is the Imperial Navy doing to guard against Vargr depredations in the Towers Cluster!?! Not a naval base in sight from Aramanx to Lablon!

And a comment: If the other two bases are likewise only supporting a CruRon apiece, the fleet stationed in Aramis subsector is severely under the average; it follows that there must be fleets out there with more than the averge number of squadrons. :devil:

 

[rancke]

Aramis that you speak of is a subsector capital, and an Imperial noble's fief to boot.

No, he's not. Marquis Leonard of Aramis' fief is the City of Leedor, not the world or Aramis. Also, it is his personal fief. It belongs to him because he is Leonard Bolden-Tukera, not because he is Marquis of Aramis. The Emperor could strip him of his title, but not his personal fief; it never was the Emperor's to hand out in the first place. Leonard is a local ruler who has been given a second job as an Imperial noble.


Hans