What is an IRIS Valve?

shadowdragon · Sep 1, 2006

neglected to note that post as a write up i am toying with as standardization IMTU, off the top (er... middle)of me knoggin. for Imperium ships at least. aslan would either be low (3m) ceilings for economy, or set at 4-5m high for high passage/officers/yachts/thehalibut/etc....

k'kree have ships?

shadowdragon · Sep 1, 2006

quote:
Originally posted by BetterThanLife:

I wouldn't have a ceiling less than 2.25 meters for anyplace that is actually expected to be occupied. 2.5 is about right for normal use. (Giving .5 Meter for dead space.) But likely to still make you claustrophobic, especially since there are no windows.
*************************************

glad we agree- as the 3m high deck comes out to about 2.5m on the vertical after all is fitted in.
who said there are no windows? even in central passages, monitors can be easily mounted in the walls to act as "windows".

or does the ships comp run linux?

Andrew Boulton · Sep 3, 2006

New, improved version:

http://www.traveller3d.com/iris2.avi

jfetters · Sep 3, 2006

Originally posted by Andrew Boulton:
New, improved version:

http://www.traveller3d.com/iris2.avi

Nicely done, Andrew!! That is how I have always envisioned an iris valve.

ranger2261 · Sep 3, 2006

Andrew,

You rock at this 3d modeling.
Thats how an iris valve works.
Thanks for the great visualization

Andrew Boulton · Sep 4, 2006

Thanks. I get there in the end, but sometimes I take the scenic route...

Simon Jester · Sep 4, 2006

Originally posted by Andrew Boulton:
New, improved version:

http://www.traveller3d.com/iris2.avi

MUCH better. That's how I've always pictured it.

Simon Jester

Tanuki · Sep 4, 2006

I've got a whole set of animations for iris valves of the sort seen in the Millenium Falcon. These are what I use in MTU. The animations include "xray" views showing where the iris leaves go and run from 2 to 6 leaves for circular deck valves and 2 to 5 leaves for wall valves. No more than 6 leaves in a circular hatch or 5 leaves in an oval hatch are possible unless the leaves can somehow pass through each other.

I figure the leaves come together in a tongue and groove seal when closed.

See http://www.sff.net/people/kitsune/traveller/irisvalve/index.html for the animations.

BetterThanLife · Sep 5, 2006

Goodness, Step away for a few days. What did I start?

Excellent work Andrew. As always top notch. Tanuki, I love the way yours are set up.

However, the issue isn't that the door would or wouldn't work. (There are arguments each way.) But where the leaves go in situations where there is no wall to retract into. A Deck Square represents 1.5mx1.5mx3m of volume. An Iris Valve would have to be no less than 1 meter wide by 2 meters high. (Though those aren't round, it is about the minimum size for a door that a human who has to wear a Vacsuit can move through under adverse conditions and or moving something.) If they are round you are looking at a minimum of a 2 Meter circle.

The issue is that a 2 meter circle doesn't fit on most deckplans. That a 1 meter width door would require a minimum of .5 meter to either side for door leaves and mechanical devices to open and close the door. (No matter what the tech level is something still has to close or open the fragging things and the leaves or plates still have to go somewhere and be fairly rigid.)

Hallways, on virtually all deck plans, are 1.5 meters wide. In many cases there is no room to either side of the hatch to allow clearance to either side of a 1 Meter by 2 meter oval. There is certainly no room, on most deckplans for a 2M circle.

That is more the issue than can the door actually work.

Andrew, If I had to guess I would figure your Door is about 3 Meters in Diameter? (Just the opening, forget about the clearance all the way around.) It looks like the ideal size for an IRIS valve. (Not too crowded to get through in an emergency loaded down with survival gear and wearing a Vacsuit.) Yet where on any of the Supplement 7 Deckplans would a door that size go?

That is the biggest issue, as far as I am concerned, with the "Canon" Deckplans. I want my starship interiors to look right and feel right, but the Deckplans, while they look good from above, until you take a good close look from an engineering or architechtural perspective, don't work in a Practical manner when you start to look at them in 3D from a User's Perspective.

Considering in Space people will have to pass each other, and may have to do this in either a VacSuit or Full Combat Armor, with either a load of weapons, emergency gear or perhaps a Missile being manually moved from one feed to another a 1.5m hallway isn't practical. However because of the amount of Cubbage required for fuel, big wide hallways don't work either.

I can make 1.5 Meter hallways, I can make 1 meter by 2 meter doors. I just can't make them work in a practical or believeable way. You stand a person in that doorway and it looks wrong.

fredofmars · Sep 5, 2006

Andrew and Tanuki, great work on showing these in action!

TheEngineer · Sep 5, 2006

Hi !

Good visualisation work folks.

But regarding the canon deckplan (I actually looking at the Safari Ship dechplan):
Here the max valve diameter usually is only 1,5 m. I would assume an opening diameter of perhaps just a meter, which would leave enough retraction space for a working mechanic.
So, the regular valve is perhaps not a king size version, like the one in Andrews animation .)
Of course one meter is a bit narrow, surely not comfortable, but enough to allow a non vacc suited person to get thru in a sportive way.
With a vacc suit... well a bit more complicate, but if artificial g is switched off, this should work, too.
But at least, its a space ship and not an apartment is space, so thats ok for me. Everything is a bit cramped (just perhaps like on a naval vessel) except You take a pretty trip on a luxury liner.

As for the sliding doors, those are marked as 1,5 m wide in the canon deckplans. Assuming thats the whole width of the sliding door construction, this would offer around 70 cm for a regular opening width for a cabin or so.

And the passage ways ?
The 8 level office building I'm actually working in has passage ways around 1.5m . Well, we dont move around here with combat armor and missiles often, but it could work and for the regular purpose its ok.

TE

Andrew Boulton · Sep 5, 2006

My valve fits into a 3m x 3m space. The corridor is 2.2m high, the valve opening is 2m diameter.

This *will* fit into a 1.5m corridor providing the bulkhead continues left and right, and has no other openings that would interfere with the mechanism.

You can get away with a 1m opening for a floor/ceiling hatch, which will fit into a 1.5m x 1.5m space.

Most of the Supp7 deckplans can be tweaked to work.

BetterThanLife · Sep 5, 2006

The Corridor in that picture is 2.2 meters high? How tall is the guy? (And how far away from the hatch is he?

He looks like he is about 183cm tall. There appears to be at least half his height again until you get to the top of the hatch. (Making the opening in the neighborhood of 2.7 meters, approximately.) I still routinely use inches, feet and yards, sorry Andrew, wrong side of the Pond.

So my calculations might be off. But isn't 179-182cm typical height for an adult healthy male? (I know I am about 199 and change and not typical. I know my Russian Instructors hated me because when I was studying Russian I called it 2 meters and 100 KG, (Which was really close.) and that made the numbers too easy.

I agree that a 1 meter hatch might be typical in the floor or ceiling, but wouldn't that take up a minimum of 2 meters of deck? (Half meter all the way around for the plates, plus mechanism, which granted could be mounted above and below the plates.)

Now for typical use 1.5 meters, or about 5 feet, is fine for a hallway. Start subtracting things like thickness of walls on either side and things get a little smaller. Now add some bulk for emergency gear and it has suddenly become a very tight space. Space is even more unforgiving that the Sea. Ships have to be designed with things like Vacsuits in mind. I am not saying that 1.5 meters wouldn't work, I am saying it is going to cause issues in an emergency. (And if you look at typical movies and television of starship corridors they definitely appear to be wider. The main corridors anyway, and only Star Trek and Andromeda typically showed tight working access shafts for maintenance purposes. Even Down below on Babylon 5 the hallways were at least 1.5 meters. The corridor running between the Bridge and the Mess (Or is that the Cargo bay, I am not entirely sure.) on Serenity was wide enough for Mal to walk down the center of the corridor, encounter Jayne on his right and without changing course or Zoe' moving out of the way, shortly thereafter Zoe' on the left. Granted the cooridors of Serenity were not rectangular so they could have been a bit tighter on the floor level and wider where people are wider, and Jayne was coming out of a door. So perhaps he wasn't headed down the middle. (Now I have to watch it again.

See what you made me do!

)

OH and all the ships in Supplement 7 work? OK Interior Airlock door on any of the small craft? Interior and exterior airlock on the Starboard Side for a Far Trader (And the Far Trader, conservatively, is about 350 tons in the plans vs. the stated 200 tons, yet the doors still don't work.)? While all of the ships have these issues these examples are doors that are the main access for Passengers with luggage, search and rescue team entry, etc.

Andrew Boulton · Sep 5, 2006

Yes, the guy's a midget, it's just fiddly to change his height.

BetterThanLife · Sep 5, 2006

Originally posted by Andrew Boulton:

Yes, the guy's a midget, it's just fiddly to change his height.

Thanks Andrew. Sorry I doubted you.

Now please put that door on the Interior Airlock door of the Beautiful Far Trader that you made. (The outer door doesn't look bad until you realize that it and the Turret mechanisms are occupying the same space.) Or perhaps the Launch. (Exterior door on the Launch can work if you expand your doorframe, alot.)

Cyberwere · Oct 4, 2006

Here's some dimensional information that might be of help in this discussion. I think folks over do the dimensions on a lot of this. Hollywood space ship design corridor widths are more for moving cameras and framing shots than design reference. Architectural design considers corridors wasted space, they have only one purpose, to move people about. Better are multifuntion spaces such as atrium, communinal rooms and such. They cost money in initial building cost and in utility life cycle expenses. In fact you can fail the architectural exam design section by have too high a precentage of corridor space. IIRC it's around 15% to 20% of the total space required.

Anyway here are some design dimensions:

Min width of a corridor 44" [1120] (Internation Building Code )
Access to equipment min 24" [610] (IBC)

Residential dr ht 80" [2000] Also min clearance height (IBC)
Commercial door height 84" [2130]
Accessible door width 32" [810] clear width allows wheel chair access
Standard commercial door width 36" [910] actual clear width approx 33" [840]

The following are from Architectural Graphic Standards - Human Dimensions

Single person width front min 21" [535] / prefered 30" [760]
Catwalk width 12" [305] at feet, 22" [560] at shoulders
Catwalk height min 63" [1600] / prefered 73" [1855]

Access Crawl way min 22" [560] wide / min ht 31" [785] / pref 36" [915]
Access Crawl pipe min 25" [635] / prefered 30" [760]

Corridor single person walking with umbrella open 44" [1120]
Corridor - 2 people passing shoulder to shoulder min 42" [1065] / pref 54 [1370]

Ceiling / Floor hatch (square & round) 18" [455] min / prefered 22" [560]
Manhole 22.8" [580] - Spacesuit 36" [915]
Top/bottom access (human in plan) 23" [585] wide x 13" [330] front to back

[millimeters]

Lan unveiling as architectural project manager

Andrew Boulton · Oct 5, 2006

Useful. I've been meaning to look up these.

Cyberwere · Oct 6, 2006

Originally posted by Andrew Boulton:
Useful. I've been meaning to look up these.

If you need anything else I've got access to shelves of architectural reference books.
The references I've been looking for naval design references. If anyone knows of such I'd be interested.

LAN

Scott Martin · Oct 6, 2006

Icosahedron · May 25, 2007

Bump!

I was thinking about airlocks again.

Another possibility for doors with nowhere to go, is a cylindrical rotating valve - like the airhole on a Bunsen Burner. As the air pressure cycles, so does the chamber wall.

A simple 'square in a circle in a square' layout gives a functional maximum door size of 'one over root two' or about 70 percent of the corridor width. A finite thickness, double skinned cylinder wall would reduce this to perhaps 60 percent, but still, for a standard 1.5m corridor, this yields a door up to 0.9m wide - that's wider than any door in my house.

Solid, rugged, dependable, few moving parts; worth considering, perhaps?

What is an IRIS Valve?

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