kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Ones who's parents were lost in a misjump and never heard from again.
Space is Hard. Have to load the outcomes in your favor.
What is contained in a Bridge?
- Thread starter vegascat
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Ones who's parents were lost in a misjump and never heard from again.
Space is Hard. Have to load the outcomes in your favor.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
I 'solve' both problems nowadays by putting power requirements for sensors in with the computer power cost, same with sensor sophistication.
Long range sensors have 'antenna clusters' all along the hull so the whole ship is a Very Large Array. Specific hits don't blind the ship unless it is the computer/bridge themselves. Smaller ships have less probability of detection then larger ships due to VLA hull size.
I don't think heat demands of sensors or any other system are necessarily at issue, rather i think it is easier to focus on the power plant. Once you are generating all that power, you have the heat and it has to be managed. (That holds unless we have have reasons to think some systems have dramatically different efficiencies than others, but the game thankfully doesn't get into that level of detail.)
On the other hand, if you want an explanation for why the bridge and associated sensors don't require any EPs, the computer is certainly a good place to claim they come from, and I too like to connect the computer with sensors/comms, so +1
On the other hand, if you want an explanation for why the bridge and associated sensors don't require any EPs, the computer is certainly a good place to claim they come from, and I too like to connect the computer with sensors/comms, so +1
Proneutron
SOC-13
Not for "is someone there?" purposes. If your 100 ton ship is sporting a fusion PP you will be detected by the most basic passive sensors out to or beyond the orbit of Pluto in a few minutes by a ship 1 A.U. from the star.
I can buy that, especially in a LBB5 context where a Mod/3 computer takes 250MW input power (Striker conversion rate). That's not just CPU cycles and cooling -- it has to be ECM broadcasting and active sensors.
Straybow
SOC-14 1K
They do recycle air, removing CO2 is a necessity. The filters can't get rid of all the smells, so the air takes on a certain unique quality only found in a sub. They will supplement O2 by electrolysis, but they have to recycle the N2 (and most of the O2 with it).It has what the ship is designed to have based on maximum required occupancy of course. What else would it have when tonnage is at an extreme premium?I spec'ed out LS that is independent of staterooms so that you could fill your hold with people. But you have to have the LS equip to handle the numbers. Remember though that on a nuke you don't recycle air or water...
In a Trav ship it would almost be more efficient, space-wise, to store some water and put the O2 into the air and the H2 into the fuel tanks during the week in jump. But they have the same problem: nowhere to get N2.
My comment was mostly about the notion that putting more than two crew or passengers in a 4dT space would "strain the life support systems." Subs put crew into berths that are about 2 m³ each.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
By your lights. If I am choosing between game effects and engineering, I will tend towards the play value and "refsplain" a reason for it.
In this case, the IMTU M-drive itself diffracts a lot of the outgoing EM such that the more CT million km ranges are effective and only active emitters like say a radio are going to get more long range detection.
My general mode of play as well. I want to play, not study physics (though don't get me wrong, I like physics and despair that my son does not need to take any decent math or physics courses in college. I liked physics, but I want to participate in a SF story with a bit of the F emphasized over the S)
And I really like "refsplain" - new vocabulary word!
Proneutron
SOC-13
I'll better explain what is happening. On a nuke they get NEW O2 from the WATER. When you exhale you LOSE O2 as CO2. On a sub they dump that CO2 overboard via reusable scrubbers. When they do that they have LOST that O2 which has to be replaced since it was NOT recycled. On a spaceship they have to CRACK the CO2 to recover the O2. You cannot get new O2 from space.
Proneutron
SOC-13
Diffract means to bend. Bending does nothing to stop EM emissions from leaving the ship and going into space. If you STOP your IR from radiating, your ship will melt in a few minutes. Thus, your fusion PP equipped ship WILL be detected at LONG interplanetary ranges. That isn't a target lock by any means but it means you cannot sneak up on others in space.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Ok great. Neat. You can have your Big Science campaign where no interesting thing can happen cause the Overlord fleets can control the whole damn system easily cause nothing happens that the Sauron sensor arrays won't pick up.
Meanwhile, I will choose handwaved diffraction that allows for stories and player agency.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
If you want a way to mask the heat emissions from a ship you need a magic heat sink, or at the very least a directional radiator that radiates your waste heat in a direction you hope sensors are not trained to look.
Over the years I have seen people suggest
subspace heatsinks - I reject those since there is no such thing as subspace in Traveller - jumpspace heatsinks - you can use your jump engine to radiate heat into jump space, I have issues with this one too
gravitic heat sinks - my chosen handwave because grav tech in Traveller is everywhere and is already magical
in one iteration of T5 damper tech had an option that could lower the kinetic energy of particles within the damper field, this could be a magic heat sink.
Mostly though I just go with the directional radiators and that there is no such thing as stealth in space.
Over the years I have seen people suggest
subspace heatsinks - I reject those since there is no such thing as subspace in Traveller - jumpspace heatsinks - you can use your jump engine to radiate heat into jump space, I have issues with this one too
gravitic heat sinks - my chosen handwave because grav tech in Traveller is everywhere and is already magical
in one iteration of T5 damper tech had an option that could lower the kinetic energy of particles within the damper field, this could be a magic heat sink.
Mostly though I just go with the directional radiators and that there is no such thing as stealth in space.
Proneutron
SOC-13
Fascinating viewpoint. In 40+ years I've never played in a Trav game where the ships were at 4 degrees Kelvin and interesting things happened all the time despite that "deficiency".
Straybow
SOC-14 1K
Sure, crack the CO2, perhaps with some genengineered algae. But you can't count on anything being 100% effective. As I just kibitzplained, a ship could (and probably should) carry a small quantity of water set aside just to replenish crew O2 and also provide a bit of auxiliary fuel. Non-cryo, unpressurized = fail safe.
Straybow
SOC-14 1K
Unless producing the damper field takes more energy than the heat it can damp out... I'm of a mind that making a "shield" of any sort would necessarily be an energy hog. If you can absorb/deflect/disperse a xGJ laser there has to be a comparable energy level in the shield where it is struck, and therefore the whole field has to have that level of energy. Maybe not xGJ, but maybe xGJ/10. It can't "react" and schlep energy from one area to another to reinforce that hit location. Detection, processing, and reaction would each be c limited, and by then your hull is penetrated.
I agree that producing gravitons/grav waves to carry away excess heat is the handiest handwave. But then you are detectable by signature gravitons/grav waves coming from your ship.
The only stealth option is to use LH2 fuel at 10x the normal rate to cool exhaust down to where the grav method is too faint to be separated from all the grav coolers in all the other ships toodling around the system.
Proneutron
SOC-13
More likely you just brute force it since there is plenty of energy from the PP. And plants don't crack CO2 into O2 as that is a high energy task. They use it as is with H2O to make carbohydrates. Plants crack H2O to make O2.
Yes, that seems very likely especially for long duration trips, as you say it cannot be 100% efficient.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
I believe they're trying to create artificial leaves.
So presumably, photosynthesis would be a chemical process.
So presumably, photosynthesis would be a chemical process.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Umm yes, photosynthesis is a chemical process. Always has been.
Panzerkraken
SOC-7
Photosynthesis:
6 H2O(l) + 6 CO2(g) > C6H12O6(s) + 6 O2(g) → ΔH=+2803KJ/mol
I would rate it middling as far as high-energy tasks go.
Standard enthalpy of formation for CO2 is −393.5 kJ/mol, so direct cracking is more efficient than doing it through photosynthesis.
6 H2O(l) + 6 CO2(g) > C6H12O6(s) + 6 O2(g) → ΔH=+2803KJ/mol
I would rate it middling as far as high-energy tasks go.
Standard enthalpy of formation for CO2 is −393.5 kJ/mol, so direct cracking is more efficient than doing it through photosynthesis.
Proneutron
SOC-13
For plants it is beyond high.
