And what do you see happening if Guy refused the Knighthood, Aramis?
And what do you see happening if Guy refused the Knighthood, Aramis?
"5 Feudal Technocracy. Government by specific individuals for those who agree to be ruled. Relationships are based on the performance of technical activities which are mutually beneficial." [TB:85].
I'm with Hans on this one. Perhaps control of, or access to, the best technology by government is the issue.
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Maybe, but I think you guys are really underestimating the science of civil administration.
TTB p85 said:"5 Feudal Technocracy. Government by specific individuals for those who agree to be ruled. Relationships are based on the performance of technical activities which are mutually beneficial.".
T5 p433 said:5 Feudal Technocracy. Governmental relationships based on mutually beneficial technical activities.
Perhaps, but I'm more influenced by the belief that while non-technological techniques can technically be considered technical, that's not the way the word is use in connection with technocracies.Maybe, but I think you guys are really underestimating the science of civil administration.
Well, the word is a portmanteau, so by definition it is an attempt to merge both concepts into a distinct, but related, idea. The brilliantly weird early Twentieth Century socio-economist Thorstein Veblen was one of the first proponents of technocracy. His basic thesis was that the 'new' technologies of the later industrial age were giving rise to an equally new class of well-trained people (the 'engineers') who were highly skilled in these technologies, and who were also -- and arguably more importantly -- steeped in rationality because of it. Ultimately, these people would become so frustrated with the economic and social irrationalities of the traditional ruling elites that they would simply take over, forming a 'Soviet of Technicians' (his term), or the first technocracy. Other writers of the time were even more blunt about it, calling for a 'Council of Scientists' to take over right then and there.Perhaps, but I'm more influenced by the belief that while non-technological techniques can technically be considered technical, that's not the way the word is use in connection with technocracies.
You mean, it's actually a bog-standard oligarchy whose ancestors were scientists rather than military types?It's important to note that Veblen did not view this form of governance as permanent in any way. Like Marx's 'Dictatorship of the Proletariat', it was explicitly intended to be a stopgap to a later, better order. I suppose the 'feudal' part would come in once the engineers, having formed their 'soviet', decided to also rationalize a reason to hang on to it.
You mean, it's actually a bog-standard oligarchy whose ancestors were scientists rather than military types?
Fred sounds like a TED... :-D Or simple good old hydraulic despotism.If I may offer a 'what if' just as fodder to the discussion ...
The planet Kansas is TL 6 and dominated by Inter-modal shipping of goods.
The Teamsters Guild controls every aspect of Inter-modal Shipping.
Emperor Fred rose through the ranks of the Teamster Guild because of his superior political skills, and now sits as undisputed ruler of the Teamsters Guild.
With a word, Emperor Fred can call for a work shutdown and all goods will immediately stop flowing to and from your independent city ... within a few days, food shelves will be bare and riots will break out in the streets.
Or alternatively, a visit from your mayor to kiss the ring of Emperor Fred, could result in a 10% increase in traffic through your inter-modal port ... creating 10,000 new jobs and a million credit boost in the city tax coffers.
Obviously, Fred is not a Technocrat in the narrow (and probably correct) sense of the term, but ...
The Transportation Industry Sector is (imho) a technology (actually a group of related technologies).
The Teamsters Guild directly controls the Transportation Industry Sector, and through its control of this technology, the planetary government.
Fred controls the Teamsters Guild, and through it, the planetary government.
Could the government of Emperor Fred reasonably claim to be a Technocracy since the power of the government is built directly upon the control of the technology vital to the civilization?
The answer may be 'no', I am just trying to think outside of the box.
Ultimately, these people would become so frustrated with the economic and social irrationalities of the traditional ruling elites that they would simply take over, forming a 'Soviet of Technicians' (his term), or the first technocracy. Other writers of the time were even more blunt about it, calling for a 'Council of Scientists' to take over right then and there.
[...] where the robots and computers generate the wealth for the meat beings to enjoy [...]
A hollowed out asteroid that is made into the home for a few million inhabitants, [...]
If I may offer a 'what if' just as fodder to the discussion ...
The planet Kansas is TL 6 and dominated by Inter-modal shipping of goods.
The Teamsters Guild controls every aspect of Inter-modal Shipping.
Emperor Fred rose through the ranks of the Teamster Guild because of his superior political skills, and now sits as undisputed ruler of the Teamsters Guild.
There is not enough significant technological difference between TL9 and TL15.