Who has the best military in Traveller?

[Xerxeskingofking]

well, aslan have this whole "Men to Manly Jobs, Females do Everything Else" thing, which means that their warriors are in it for life, with all the accumulated experience that implies.

However, their clan structure means they are not actually very good at the strategic or even operational level, as the Hierate as a whole doesn't fight, just the clans actually on the border, with a slight boost form the ihatei in the area. Historically, during the Aslan Border Wars, the cans fought and made peace individually, and were on average about as strong as the pocket empires that were left by the collapse of the Rule of Man. once the 3I showed up, things started to go badly for them, as they couldn't match it in scale and co-ordination.

in short, they can win battles, but struggle with winning wars. the Hierate is just as disunited politically as the Vargr Extents, the difference is the Aslans have a unified culture to sorta hold them together.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I see the Aslan and their Heirate as medieval Japan; having a clan structure that tends to skew them towards tech that's a shade or two lower than the rest of known space (the odd ultra-high tech civ not withstanding).

I think the Vargr are on the other end of things by letting females do non-traditional roles, which, in theory, could give them a numerical advantage, but their chaotic nature and structure, unlike the Aslan, keeps them from being a cohesive "pack". I see them as Germanic tribes bordering the Roman Empire; fighting amongst themselves and raiding "the Imperium".

They're two of a kind, same but different, and not just because their ancestors spawned on different worlds. I think their similarities were intentional, and it's my opinion they were designed to be polar opposites with said similarities in mind.

All that said, I'd still tip my cap to a regiment of K'Kree over a regiment of either Vargr or Aslan troops.

 

[Timerover51]

I see the Aslan and their Heirate as medieval Japan; having a clan structure that tends to skew them towards tech that's a shade or two lower than the rest of known space (the odd ultra-high tech civ not withstanding).

I think the Vargr are on the other end of things by letting females do non-traditional roles, which, in theory, could give them a numerical advantage, but their chaotic nature and structure, unlike the Aslan, keeps them from being a cohesive "pack". I see them as Germanic tribes bordering the Roman Empire; fighting amongst themselves and raiding "the Imperium".

They're two of a kind, same but different, and not just because their ancestors spawned on different worlds. I think their similarities were intentional, and it's my opinion they were designed to be polar opposites with said similarities in mind.

All that said, I'd still tip my cap to a regiment of K'Kree over a regiment of either Vargr or Aslan troops.

The K'kree will cost a lot more in logistic support than the Vargr, requiring a bigger tail to teeth ratio. The Aslan will be about a bad as the K'kree in terms of cost because of their carnivorous diet, but their teeth to tail ratio will be better. All of the K'kree vehicles are going to be significantly larger than either the Vargr or Aslan, again driving the cost up. Overall, the K'kree military should cost far more than any other group for the same firepower. Assuming that the military is going to be cost-limited, the K'kree will have problems meeting any other group on the same terms in large-scale combat.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I don't get the whole teeth to tail ratio thing. Explain, human!

 

[aramis]

I don't get the whole teeth to tail ratio thing. Explain, human!

Tail: supply train & chain
Teeth: actual fighting forces.

Standard US Army officer slang.

 

[LeperColony]

I think the Vargr must be the most effective. They overrun Corridor and Lishun easily during MT.

You just can't fight plot armor!

 

[Enoki]

I think the Vargr must be the most effective. They overrun Corridor and Lishun easily during MT.

You just can't fight plot armor!

I see this as sort of a "Tet Offensive." That is, the Vargr get together long enough to launch a single major offensive and overrun Corridor. They then engage in a prolonged guerrilla conflict with the Imperium and eventually withdraw, likely looting the planets / systems they took control of.

From there the Imperium simply gives up trying to do more than regain lost territory as that would involve them in an unwinnable protracted low level conflict against an enemy that changes names virtually every week.

 

[Condottiere]

With the Aslan, intelligence agencies would need to incite clans against each other, whether through direct bribery or agent provocateurs.

For human on Aslan action, it probably be best to blockade their planets and cut interstellar communications routes, destroy their industrial base and get them to commit their fleets to a general battle.

What you don;t want is a Genghis Khan figure uniting them.

For the Vargr, you'll want to avoid a Waaagh.

 

[aramis]

I think the Vargr must be the most effective. They overrun Corridor and Lishun easily during MT.

You just can't fight plot armor!

They only overrun because Lucan yanked the fleets there out.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Okay, another dumb question, what is "plot" armor?

To me the Vargr war amongst themselves simply because they can, and it's kind of who they are.

I personally think the Aslan probably in a "Traveller reality" sense, probably war nearly as much and with one another, but with a bit more tradition and recognition of a kind of honor oriented etiquette. I'm guessing they probably use hostages among clans to ensure agreements among clans; i.e. a family member is exchanged for another, but are raised in gilded cages where they have access to luxury suiting their rank, but that this only keeps the peace for however long it's deemed convenient. I'm guessing alliances are made and broken about as often in Japan's Gempei and Sengoku War eras.

Getting back to the Vargr, I think they might also be comparable to Norse culture, where you could kill your neighbor if you could show you had cause, or just had enough people on your side. In the meantime you go out and raid "non Nordic" societies for gold, food and that occasional mate or slaves.

Side note; it's my opinion that Terrans further out from Terra, away from SolSec's central hub, probably have the most effective military due to a long historic tradition or reducing military action to a scientific oriented business venture, which is how they beat the Vilani in the first place. And I think they'd probably beat the Zhos in a fair fight.

 

[Enoki]

But, I doubt the Zhodani would fight "fair." Why should they when they see societies that don't exploit psionics as inferior?

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

Okay, another dumb question, what is "plot" armour?

the ability of characters in a narrative to survive things that would and do kill other characters. they survive because the plot requires them to.

when Indiana Jones survived being nuked by hiding in a lead lined fridge, that's plot armour.

 

[Blue Ghost]

... is the DM listed on the CT weapon's matrix? o:

 

[Condottiere]

Here I thought it was good old American engineering.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Back on topic;

Zhos verse Hivers. Who wins and why?

 

[kilemall]

Zhos would likely win tactically, having been 'trained' at least at an institutional level by the Imperium to be efficient, whereas the Hivers don't have a lot of warmaking culture.

On a strategic level, I feel confident the Hivers would cook up something- perhaps a planetary level artificial Empress Wave, use their computer abilities to hack the Zho systems, or subverting a ruling class cadre on a test world where they have been adjusted to correct everyone to be individualists and certain they are promulgating the legitimate 'rightthink'.

A key question is if Zhos could learn to 'adjust' Hivers.

A more interesting thought is that both societies are very manipulative and would naturally turn to affecting the 3I. As a result they would likely interfere with each other's plans, even if just accidentally.

So they may already be engaging in a shadow war inside the Imperium using their strengths. They may seek to neutralize each other just to be able to do their manipulations, actively engage with opposing goals, or more terrifyingly, cooperate for limited mutual objectives.

 

[Condottiere]

Been there,

The Zhodani may become overconfident.

 

[Ulsyus]

Back on topic;

Zhos verse Hivers. Who wins and why?

Has anyone ever taken the vehicle and weapons stats that have been put in print and duked it out using Striker?

 

[mike wightman]

Hive federation ground forces have received something of a revision since Striker. We have learned of their AI warbots - illegal to even import into the Imperium - and their Ithklur.

The Hive Federation has no army, it only has a navy with access to ground troops, warbots, artillery, warbots, gunships, warbots, Ithklur, warbots...

 

[Garnfellow]

I definitely think the Hive Federation would be, hands down, the scariest opponent. The Imperium might be the largest military, but the Hive Federation Navy has the equal or even better tech, superior organization, and inhuman patience.

You could probably surprise them and win a few battles. They'd be stymied by irrational tactics or extreme violence. But they wouldn't get drawn into engagements until it was to their advantage; they would just methodically, systematically pick your forces to pieces.