Who's doing what?
- Thread starter The Hinterworlds Rambler
- Start date
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
No we don't.
I freely admit it if it wil make you happy, Mal.
I am out to save Traveller. It is my life's mission to popularize this game and make it take its place among the Greats. I believe and want to work towards Taveller having as good a defined background as any TV show or other SCi FI franchise. Yes, make it even accessible to non-scientists. Even if I do not "own" the game, I enjoy it, and hope many many more people do.
Perhaps to you its a fool's errand, but it's my time to waste, I guess...
This will be our last discussion. Things like your invariably crappy and know-it-all attitude are what wreck these sort of things, that and your unwillingness to admit you are wrong. If you disagree, tell it to someone who will listen. Because I will not.
Tip: Knocking at least the effort of something like this for no reason other than to do it, sort of makes you seem like a bit of a tool. Just FYI.
I freely admit it if it wil make you happy, Mal.
I am out to save Traveller. It is my life's mission to popularize this game and make it take its place among the Greats. I believe and want to work towards Taveller having as good a defined background as any TV show or other SCi FI franchise. Yes, make it even accessible to non-scientists. Even if I do not "own" the game, I enjoy it, and hope many many more people do.
Perhaps to you its a fool's errand, but it's my time to waste, I guess...
This will be our last discussion. Things like your invariably crappy and know-it-all attitude are what wreck these sort of things, that and your unwillingness to admit you are wrong. If you disagree, tell it to someone who will listen. Because I will not.
Tip: Knocking at least the effort of something like this for no reason other than to do it, sort of makes you seem like a bit of a tool. Just FYI.
I'm trying to get around to generating a sector based upon my Random Subsector thread of a couple months back. I don't know where I want to go with it, but I want to have at least eight more subsectors eventually.
To go with Bill's aside and take it onto a tangent, there was some sort of thread about redoing the UWPs or redoing the planetary generation method awhile ago; if someone would care to point that out to me, I have some additions to make.
To go with Bill's aside and take it onto a tangent, there was some sort of thread about redoing the UWPs or redoing the planetary generation method awhile ago; if someone would care to point that out to me, I have some additions to make.
Maladominus
SOC-14 1K
I'm working on the sector that everyone else loves to ignore: Magyar sector... the frontier armpit of the rimward regions. Stuck between the Solomani heartland and the Aslan prime worlds.
I'm quite happy that the Magyar sector tends to have been ignored by GDW/DGP/GURPS, and has relatively few canonical details about it. It means that I have a lot of leeway to interpret everything in between.
And TempMal... I'm not out to "Save Traveller". =)
I'm not out to publish some Magyar sector guide that will make money like QLI does. I don't expect to make a dollar out of it, even if I end up compiling a 25-page PDF sector guide.
I'm not out to "Do Things Better Than Marc Miller".
I have none of those ambitions. My projects satisfy only my own nerdy gaming needs (plus the handful of players that actually like my style of GMing, and hence actively play in my campaign). My Traveller projects are meant to make me and my players happy, and my projects are often meant to appease only my small gaming cadre. That's not unreasonable, is it?
The Other Mal
I'm quite happy that the Magyar sector tends to have been ignored by GDW/DGP/GURPS, and has relatively few canonical details about it. It means that I have a lot of leeway to interpret everything in between.
And TempMal... I'm not out to "Save Traveller". =)
I'm not out to publish some Magyar sector guide that will make money like QLI does. I don't expect to make a dollar out of it, even if I end up compiling a 25-page PDF sector guide.
I'm not out to "Do Things Better Than Marc Miller".
I have none of those ambitions. My projects satisfy only my own nerdy gaming needs (plus the handful of players that actually like my style of GMing, and hence actively play in my campaign). My Traveller projects are meant to make me and my players happy, and my projects are often meant to appease only my small gaming cadre. That's not unreasonable, is it?
The Other Mal
I think Dr. Thomas is right on the money here.
Forums here on COTI must be mined by people for ideas in order to be worth anything. A 'project lead' doesn't have to shut others up, but he does pick and choose to fit his preferences, and 'publishes' (i.e. shares) his amalgamation periodically.
In fact, anyone can become a kind of 'lead' by simply picking the bits he prefers from a forum and building something shareable from it. It provides focus. It invites criticism.
By the way, since these are communal projects, that means that everyone who wants to can put together his own amalgamation to share.
In other words, these aren't really communal projects. They're nurseries for ideas that people must mine for gems.
It seems that, in general, noone wants it badly enough to do it themselves, or else they're already doing it themselves and simply use this forum for fielding a few questions and floating ideas.
Everyone's got ideas; but you don't have to accomodate anyone but yourself. That's not selfish; it's the reality of a limited, non-incorporated pseudo-community. And if you share your work, then it's the opposite of selfish. Potentially helpful, even.
Forums here on COTI must be mined by people for ideas in order to be worth anything. A 'project lead' doesn't have to shut others up, but he does pick and choose to fit his preferences, and 'publishes' (i.e. shares) his amalgamation periodically.
In fact, anyone can become a kind of 'lead' by simply picking the bits he prefers from a forum and building something shareable from it. It provides focus. It invites criticism.
By the way, since these are communal projects, that means that everyone who wants to can put together his own amalgamation to share.
In other words, these aren't really communal projects. They're nurseries for ideas that people must mine for gems.
It seems that, in general, noone wants it badly enough to do it themselves, or else they're already doing it themselves and simply use this forum for fielding a few questions and floating ideas.
Everyone's got ideas; but you don't have to accomodate anyone but yourself. That's not selfish; it's the reality of a limited, non-incorporated pseudo-community. And if you share your work, then it's the opposite of selfish. Potentially helpful, even.
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TempMal
Guest
First, I could care less if you 'listened' to me or not. You make your comments here, they're valid to respond to, and others can read them.
What are you trying to "save Traveller" from exactly? It can't be from Obscurity - while the game generally tends to pick up the same old fans over and over with each new edition, it is at least one of the most recognised RPGs out there even if it isn't the most widely played.
Traveller is never going to be as popular and as widely played as D&D is today. Period. Should it be? I don't think it should. Traveller fans generally seem happy to get by on whatever their favourite system is. So long as they're happy then people will always be playing it. Maybe your efforts will be better spent if you diverted the zeal with which you try to evangelise the game into making actual products to share with the people who do like the game instead.
One thing I've learned is that people work towards getting the background as coherent as they want it to be - no more, no less. Another thing I've learned is that different people have different visions of how coherent the background should be - your vision of a 'coherent setting' is probably quite different from mine, or anyone else's here. This is why things like the Spica Project are doomed to fail as a group project, because nobody is going to agree on where they want the setting to go or what they want it to be. That sort of thing only works when one or two people do all the work - which is one endpoint of these projects (the other being that everyone gives up and it fizzles out completely) - and currently AFAIK Gruffty is still doing the work for Spica to get it running to his satisfaction. Maybe he'll throw it back out at the community when it's ready, or maybe he'll just keep on working on it or just give up. Either way, it's his decision.
Finally, if you want to "save Traveller" so much, then write some submissions to publishers and get your work out there as part of some official canon. Because if you don't, you're just another guy with just another Traveller Universe that is no more or less valid than anybody else's out there. Either way though, MWM himself has shown that he is very resistant to the fundamental changes required to make the background "coherent". Others have tried and failed too. That should indicate that the chance that you'll succeed where others have failed is minimal at best.
Really, if you're going to have some sense of realism (which so far you've shown a distinct lack of), you'd aim to change the game and setting into something YOU are happy with, and then present that to the community if you so wish. That'd be more effective and useful than the charging at windmills you seem intent on doing.
Again, you just see what you want to see, not what I've written. I say what I say because people should be made aware of the low success rates of these group projects and the probable reasons why they fail so much. You seem to want people to ignore that. Whether or not people choose to take in what I say or not is their decision. You've clearly chosen to ignore what I say and blunder on thinking you're Traveller's One True Saviour - well, good luck with that. But don't come crying later on about how all these projects you want everyone to get involved with seem to fail, because the reasons for that have been pointed out here and have been pointed out elsewhere before.
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TempMal
Guest
It most certainly is not unreasonable at all! In fact I think that's the best reason to do any project like this - either for yourself or for your immediate group.
The most useful things I have gleaned off these boards are the “plot bunnies”.
Those little throw-away ideas and equipment that you use to build an adventure.
Hell look at the Pawn Shop thread or the Best Ship names Thread. The Highport Generator with its Mod 1 interface that even works on my old computer (Vilani Design Award there).
It’s an intellectual Downport that has self-managed for months while its primary moderator is stuck dealing with personal crap and still works.
You can’t beat the price either . . .
Why do we do it? I don’t know, we have folks here from every walk of life scattered all over the world. I do know one thing, we are all True Believers.
Some of us haven’t played in years but we keep coming back, compelled by some unseen force to keep discussing the role of sabers in space and lot of other goofy stuff that makes “decent” people raise an eyebrow.
I didn’t want to bash such a noble idea as a collective effort but I think what is realistic (funny talking about realistic in here!) is that we keep doing what we do best and posing it for our fellow Travellers out there.
Those little throw-away ideas and equipment that you use to build an adventure.
Hell look at the Pawn Shop thread or the Best Ship names Thread. The Highport Generator with its Mod 1 interface that even works on my old computer (Vilani Design Award there).
It’s an intellectual Downport that has self-managed for months while its primary moderator is stuck dealing with personal crap and still works.
You can’t beat the price either . . .
Why do we do it? I don’t know, we have folks here from every walk of life scattered all over the world. I do know one thing, we are all True Believers.
Some of us haven’t played in years but we keep coming back, compelled by some unseen force to keep discussing the role of sabers in space and lot of other goofy stuff that makes “decent” people raise an eyebrow.
I didn’t want to bash such a noble idea as a collective effort but I think what is realistic (funny talking about realistic in here!) is that we keep doing what we do best and posing it for our fellow Travellers out there.
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
My motive for posting the "I want to Save Traveller" ("Save Traveller" would be a good bumper sticker.) is to illustrate apoint of how patently absurd a notion that is. Traveller is not mine to save. Duh!
Frankly, a large chunk of my time goes into writing and thinking about robots, aliens, and what have you, and I got room in the brain pan to do freebie stuff for traveller and my own stuff with no problem. I want to do it. I guess I sort of have to do it. Even if its just another TU.
I am committed to the notion that I am going to be all set around retirement age as far as hobbies are concerned, and any of you are welcome to pull up the next couch and start rolling some dice. But you better have good pills!
I like Traveller. It stands to reason that we should apply what we know to coming up with even snazzier stuff than has come down the road already. A Great Compilation of all this stuff wouldnt hurt that much, would it?
Frankly, a large chunk of my time goes into writing and thinking about robots, aliens, and what have you, and I got room in the brain pan to do freebie stuff for traveller and my own stuff with no problem. I want to do it. I guess I sort of have to do it. Even if its just another TU.
I am committed to the notion that I am going to be all set around retirement age as far as hobbies are concerned, and any of you are welcome to pull up the next couch and start rolling some dice. But you better have good pills!
I like Traveller. It stands to reason that we should apply what we know to coming up with even snazzier stuff than has come down the road already. A Great Compilation of all this stuff wouldnt hurt that much, would it?
I'm currently working on four Traveller "projects" - in addition to a possible freelance work for a Shadowrun sourcebook.
First and foremost, I'm working on the Solar Triumvirate MTU; I do this project because I enjoy doing it and because it is my main game background. It is, in some ways, a communal project - I've brought many aspects of this universe to discussion online, and it was enriched by the thoughts of many contributors. sure, I do the final decisions and writing, but I get creative input from these forums. I think it'll be always a free resource - as it has benefited (and will continue to benefit in the future) from the work of so many others, making me feel bad about taking money to myself about it, money for something to which others have contributed work. Alot of my deckplan and even rule work is for
My second Traveller project is my virusless, post-Hard Times OTU variant situated in the Solomani Rim Sector in 1130 (Imperial Date). My Solomani ship designs - deck plans included - are mostly for this setting. Again, this is something I'm doing as a possible game setting and out of interest.
My third Traveller work is my rule modification work, done for my own gaming interest as well as the benefit of the Community as a whole.
And last but not least, I'm working with Matthew Bailey on Striker-III, both in reviewing his writing and suggesting typo corrections and rule alterations, generic creative input, and - the biggest work - force composition and design, especially Solomani. I might get even more involved later on.
I'm in dire need of money, even for such things as paying the rent and the bills; if I'd ever want to buy a significant amount of new RPG material (my dream is both Call of Cthulhu D20 and Traveller T20, as well as several new dice sets and T5 when it comes out), publishing PDFs for some money might finance that purchase (and thus, be able to provide you all with T20 ship, vehicle and robot designs). If Hunter's life will get better soon (my best wishes to you, Hunter!) and the "Limited Lisence" will be set up, I'll publish the deckplans for a 5,000-dton astroid mining rig, along with crew UPPs and a few other goodies (such as my belting rules, a few LBB8 robots, a detailed star system and maybe a short adventure); otherwise (i.e. if no "Limited Lisence" system will be set up within this year), I'll publish it for free.
Other ideas for "Limited License" publications I'm toying with include deckplans of other large ships (1,0000 dton or more); a "survival horror" adventure and possibly deckplans for smaller ships as well.
First and foremost, I'm working on the Solar Triumvirate MTU; I do this project because I enjoy doing it and because it is my main game background. It is, in some ways, a communal project - I've brought many aspects of this universe to discussion online, and it was enriched by the thoughts of many contributors. sure, I do the final decisions and writing, but I get creative input from these forums. I think it'll be always a free resource - as it has benefited (and will continue to benefit in the future) from the work of so many others, making me feel bad about taking money to myself about it, money for something to which others have contributed work. Alot of my deckplan and even rule work is for
My second Traveller project is my virusless, post-Hard Times OTU variant situated in the Solomani Rim Sector in 1130 (Imperial Date). My Solomani ship designs - deck plans included - are mostly for this setting. Again, this is something I'm doing as a possible game setting and out of interest.
My third Traveller work is my rule modification work, done for my own gaming interest as well as the benefit of the Community as a whole.
And last but not least, I'm working with Matthew Bailey on Striker-III, both in reviewing his writing and suggesting typo corrections and rule alterations, generic creative input, and - the biggest work - force composition and design, especially Solomani. I might get even more involved later on.
I'm in dire need of money, even for such things as paying the rent and the bills; if I'd ever want to buy a significant amount of new RPG material (my dream is both Call of Cthulhu D20 and Traveller T20, as well as several new dice sets and T5 when it comes out), publishing PDFs for some money might finance that purchase (and thus, be able to provide you all with T20 ship, vehicle and robot designs). If Hunter's life will get better soon (my best wishes to you, Hunter!) and the "Limited Lisence" will be set up, I'll publish the deckplans for a 5,000-dton astroid mining rig, along with crew UPPs and a few other goodies (such as my belting rules, a few LBB8 robots, a detailed star system and maybe a short adventure); otherwise (i.e. if no "Limited Lisence" system will be set up within this year), I'll publish it for free.
Other ideas for "Limited License" publications I'm toying with include deckplans of other large ships (1,0000 dton or more); a "survival horror" adventure and possibly deckplans for smaller ships as well.
T
TempMal
Guest
That's a bit of a turnaround from what you said before:
"I am out to save Traveller. It is my life's mission to popularize this game and make it take its place among the Greats. I believe and want to work towards Taveller having as good a defined background as any TV show or other SCi FI franchise. Yes, make it even accessible to non-scientists. Even if I do not "own" the game, I enjoy it, and hope many many more people do."
Not to mention completely contrary to your attitude elsewhere too, for that matter. You seem to spend a lot of time and effort following what you apparently now suddenly believe is an absurd notion. So you'll forgive me for not being particularly convinced that you were just saying that to illustrate a point you didn't believe in.
And people are applying what they know to come up with stuff that THEY think is good for THEIR vision of Traveller. But when you try bringing all those different visions together with no organisation, no rigid outlines to follow, no deadlines, and no pay then you're not going to have much success.
A book (or book-sized work) is a huge project: I coauthored a book with two other people that took six months solid for us to research and write, and then it took about another year for it to be proofed, playtested, for artwork to be made and for the book to be laid out and printed (under ideal circumstances all of that should have taken about six months, but this is SJG we're talking about). These projects take up a vast amount of time and require a lot of focussed effort - something that you're simply not going to have when a bunch of people get together online on a forum to throw ideas around. And the deadlines and the payment at the end are vital motivation, because otherwise it simply isn't going to happen.
This is why I think it's a waste of time to embark on such communal projects. The only practical way forward is for everyone to work on their own thing to their own satisfaction and at their own pace, and then present it to the community when it's done. Then it can be picked apart, criticised, praised, re-edited or whatever.
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
Still Here, Mal? Why?
Current Projects:
A Species-Specific Deckplan "Legend" of scalable Starship Components for use with Adobe Illustrator. These are similar to the old DnD Geomorphs back in the day, except these ones speed Deckplan Production.
A refined Version of my Traveller Trade Goods Cards, with new art, format. I am even toying with the idea of doing a "retro" version with Groovy art. Even as a diversion the ease of use of the cards is rather nice. Especially for on the spot "What's in the Cargo Hold?" questions.
For Stellar Reaches: A three-page Starship Overview called the "Drydock" Series.
I am making 144th (30mm) Scale Starport dock sets by type, like dioramas. Every month I will produce a new model, detailing a specific ship, at Editor's pick. I think the first one is a Vargr 400-ton Corsair with Julian Livery. Page one is Background, Page 2 Art, Page 3 is Stats.
I've had a lot of Campaign Ideas over the years here, and I wouldn't mind doing a sourcebook, novel or something for each eventually. I say this not because I think they are particularly good, but more that they take a stab at alternate settings in the confines of known space.
Personally, I am looking to embark on projects for money and/or fun that for me will combine my love of RPGs, Art, and Science Fiction. I guess I'm starting my own game company. Whether or not that company is to produce stuff for real real for Traveller has yet to be seen. I have asked about liscencing* repeatedly, even to pay for it, but alas...
Current Projects:
A Species-Specific Deckplan "Legend" of scalable Starship Components for use with Adobe Illustrator. These are similar to the old DnD Geomorphs back in the day, except these ones speed Deckplan Production.
A refined Version of my Traveller Trade Goods Cards, with new art, format. I am even toying with the idea of doing a "retro" version with Groovy art. Even as a diversion the ease of use of the cards is rather nice. Especially for on the spot "What's in the Cargo Hold?" questions.
For Stellar Reaches: A three-page Starship Overview called the "Drydock" Series.
I am making 144th (30mm) Scale Starport dock sets by type, like dioramas. Every month I will produce a new model, detailing a specific ship, at Editor's pick. I think the first one is a Vargr 400-ton Corsair with Julian Livery. Page one is Background, Page 2 Art, Page 3 is Stats.
I've had a lot of Campaign Ideas over the years here, and I wouldn't mind doing a sourcebook, novel or something for each eventually. I say this not because I think they are particularly good, but more that they take a stab at alternate settings in the confines of known space.
Personally, I am looking to embark on projects for money and/or fun that for me will combine my love of RPGs, Art, and Science Fiction. I guess I'm starting my own game company. Whether or not that company is to produce stuff for real real for Traveller has yet to be seen. I have asked about liscencing* repeatedly, even to pay for it, but alas...
T
TempMal
Guest
You keep stirring things up is why. If you just quit trying to make me out to be the bad guy here, and quit taking everything I say so personally that you feel you have to make a passive-aggressive dig at me with every post, and actually posted some reasoning that made any kind of sense then I wouldn't have to keep pointing out how nonsensical and inconsistent your arguments are.
(hell, if you hadn't falsely accused me of 'derailing' the Spica project in the first place I wouldn't be here at all. And then you complaining that I wasn't being 'civil' when I hadn't insulted you, when you then turned round and called me a 'tool' was a nice touch too)
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
Enough from you, please.
I really don't want to converse about this anymore with you Mal, it is pointless. As far as being the "Bad Guy" goes, I wouldn't look to me for that. You basically tore me a new one for even suggesting it. Does that make sense?
Can you understand or see that?
All I hear from you is "Don't" so again, you are here for what reason? To fight with me? Your Contempt of any such effort is registered.
I tend not to work with people that think I am "Idealistic", or at least would say so right out of the gate.
I really don't want to converse about this anymore with you Mal, it is pointless. As far as being the "Bad Guy" goes, I wouldn't look to me for that. You basically tore me a new one for even suggesting it. Does that make sense?
Can you understand or see that?
All I hear from you is "Don't" so again, you are here for what reason? To fight with me? Your Contempt of any such effort is registered.
I tend not to work with people that think I am "Idealistic", or at least would say so right out of the gate.
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TempMal
Guest
Heck, *I* don't even have my updated sysgen in a single document!
The only thing that is in 'single document' form is the Stellar Generation stuff. You can find that at:
http://www.evildrganymede.net/rpg/traveller/traveller.htm
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TempMal
Guest
So don't. Can't you see what you're doing? You're giving me points to respond to all the time. If you just shut up and talked about what you want to talk about instead of whining about me being here then I wouldn't have to reply to you all the time (or better still, you should have taken this to PM instead of clogging up your own thread with attacks on me).
I'd suggest you get over that if you want to get anywhere. Because you ARE 'idealistic'. Your view of reality does not seem to tally with how things really work and that is only going to get in your way. But hey, if you think you're the one who is going to suddenly rally the troops and save the game where nobody else has then good luck to you. You're clearly not going to listen to anybody's advice (and that's really not going to help you find people who want to work with you).
