Who's doing what?

[Ptah]

Having worked with a few VCs in my day I think Dalton has explained it well. In addition, most numbers for the industry are gross revenue and don't separate out any of the nuances that might let you get at the return on book sells.

I imagine D&D as a brand has more value (or at least a better return)to WotC than actual book profits.

 

[daltoncalford]

From a players perspective, if you are playing a game, it is not dead.
One of my favorite games is called polyconomy. It is a version of monopoly that has a very specific canadian flavour to it (from the 70's) and we pull it out and play it on every big holiday.
It has been out of production for years.

I know alot of people who love the game and a few that went so far as to make thier own board.
Is the game dead? From an economic standpoint, yes. From a fulfillment standpoint, the game is wonderful and very viable. From a cottage industry standpoint, if you can get permission, you may sell one or two home made copies in the local garage sale.

For a game to have life, it needs to be played. That means you need to be able to start playing within minutes of saying 'lets play X'. That was the secret to the fast adoption of the THE rules.
No adding, no subtracting, just figure out a difficulty and roll the dice. Watching the wives pick up on that was a thing of beauty. It was the first time in my life that there where more women playing than geeks.

So, to me, Traveller lives on in a universe different than the OTU. It has vargr, aslan, darrians, solamani, hivers, vilani and zho's but all with different names and backgrounds. It works for us, but, a regular Traveller player would have a little to get used to as alot of the assumptions have changed.

I am making a set of LBB's for those who want them, and my earlier posting says where I am at with that project.

I have no intention of charging for them unless some of those who contributed to the project need to make some money. But by then, they will be out there and the individual can make money by creating their own work, which they can charge for if they wish.

It is a copyleft for those who are familiar with the term.

One thing I love about Traveller is not the rules, setting, books, stories or any of the other things most people would list. For me, it is the communities that seem to always form around the game, combined with the memories I have thanks to Traveller.

The best thing I can do is just say, Thanks Marc.

best regards

Dalton

 

[daryen]

Back to the original topic of the thread...

I am working on two things for 1248. One is the Spinward States and the other is an Adventure that is set in the Spinward States. Ironically, the adventure will likely be standalone, as it only needs one subsector.

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
Third, for WoCo to become more of an actual setting instead of a very 'thin' setting suggestion, very specific decisions would have to be made. Several of the other posters have wrote about this. Even in group projects - actually, especially in group projects - specific decisions have to be made and adhered to. Naturally, those decisions will not please everyone in the group. The more decisions that are made, the more feelings there are to get hurt, and less participation is the result.

That is why any group project like that has to have a leader who gets to make the decisions. People may be unhappy, and people may leave the group, but it is the only way for any progress to be made, and to have any sort of chance to finish.

In the 1248 Spinward States I am assembling, I have no idea what sort of success it might have, since I am sure there will be enough decisions to piss off just about anyone.

Just last month on the TML, the Aslan invasion got rehashed again with the same old handwaves and same old excuses presented to try and explain the same old, utterly implausible, DGP inspired Aslani takeover of the Trojan Reach. AFAIC, the Aslan invasion was debunked over a decade ago if not even earlier. Yet, there are still people who believe they can make it work canonically(2) despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Yep, that would be one of the areas I get to deal with in Spinward States.

Quite frankly, how to handle the Aslan is probably the hardest part of the effort. The Aslan are treated so irrationally and inconsistently in canon that they are nearly impossible to handle well. That is not to say the Aslan are irrational, but the various authors' treatment of them has been.

So, no matter what route or decisions I come to, I am sure a vast swath of Traveller fandom will be incensed.

 

[Border Reiver]

Bill Cameron said

2 - By saying 'make it work canoncially', I mean they believe that the Invasion can occur and succeed as described in canon without having to making any changes or just making minor changes to other canonical information.

Ah but you see Bill it does just by dint of it being canon, just like the warrant, jump drives (coils or grids), jump torps, thrusters, fusion plus, the Vargr invasions, the Vilani not conquering Terra and countless others. If you don't like it, tough. It's only a bloody game for goodness sake. (that is of course unless it is your entire life's meaning . In which case sorry I spoke)

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Border Reiver:
Ah but you see Bill it does just by dint of it being canon, just like the warrant, jump drives (coils or grids), jump torps, thrusters, fusion plus, the Vargr invasions, the Vilani not conquering Terra and countless others. If you don't like it, tough. It's only a bloody game for goodness sake.

BR,

You misunderstand my point.

IMTU, the Alien Incursions simply don't occur. Yes, there is an uptick in Vargr raiding and a slight increase in Aslani 'illegals'. The troubles the Imperium is experiencing would encourage a few more Vargr and Aslan than normal to try their hand at raiding or land grabs.

Thus the absurdity of the Alien Incursions is moot IMTU. With a wave of my GM wand, they vanish. They are of no matter to me as a GM.

Sadly that would not be an option for any potential Wounded Colossus sourcebook.

Why? Well, it's been stated many, many times and it bears stating again: Canon Is For Authors. As a mere GM I can ignore the Alien Incursions and as the author of a Woco sourcebook I cannot.

Canon, for all its acknowledged faults, is the ground state, the default state, for Traveller. I can produce oodles of materials for my own use, brutally twisted and delicately tweaked for my extremely specific GMing needs. However, the more I twist and tweak, the less utility the material has for other GMs. Therein lays the rub.

If a Wounded Colossus sourcebook is to be of the greatest utility to the greatest number of GMs, it must adhere to Traveller canon as closely as possible. That's means the Alien Incursions are back on the table. That means Corridor falls, Lishun falls, the Reach is overrun, the Duke of Tobia commits suicide, Glisten is taken, all of it. All the canonical events that cannot even be explained other than saying It Happened must now be presented, discussed, and dealt with in a logical, internally consistent manner.

As a GM, I care nothing of the Alien Incursion. As a potential author, I must care about them very much indeed.

It all depends on which hat I'm wearing.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Border Reiver]

Thank you Bill, a succint and excellent explanation of your position. For a brief moment I thought you were another mere canon killer, seeking out all scientific mistakes and continuity gaffs, demanding the authors revise their hard work to suit your version of the universe. I always look on the Traveller canon as a very specialist genre of Science Fiction and as such I respect the author's work and effort. I certainly don't complain about errors made by Asimov or Clarke, Stross or Vinge, so I won't go off on one about the Keith Bros. or Joe Fugate.

As a gm I've used and abused canon since forever. Must be the presbyterian in me.

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Border Reiver:
Thank you Bill, a succint and excellent explanation of your position.

BR,

Thank you for that.

In my first post I should have included a sentence or three referring to this GM-Author dichotomy. Just a bit more effort on my part would have saved us both a few posts!


Have fun,
Bill

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

Perhaps it is the faceless nature of it that makes it hard to visualize for the newcomer. Traveller really, has no Darth Vader, Jim Digriz, or even ZAphod really. By being so general it lacks in some key areas normal to this sort of thing. Major Players. Super NPCs. Traveller Celebrities?

Even d20 modern makes sort of a stab at it by using the same archetypes in all game examples.

Where's Traveller's Duncan Idaho? Logan 5? Who is the Vargr James Bond? These are background related, but Traveller could do with a highly illustrated Who's Who of the Famous and Infamous. From all time periods. Who's the Vilani Zeprham Cochrane?

Traveller needs computergenic Poster Children.

 

[TempMal]

re: Dalton

All that economic stuff is fair enough, but you should realise that usually if a roleplayer complains or claims that a game or the industry is 'dead', he's not talking in economic terms - he's talking about how he thinks nobody plays the game (or any games) at all, which is usually patently incorrect. And since you (presumably) are a gamer, complaining about things that gamers usually complain about (ie "nobody's playing this game!" or "we're in a slump!") then it's not exactly surprising that I took your use of 'dead' or 'killed' as the gamer version.

Whether the RPG industry - economically speaking - is booming or dead or anything else is a different matter though, and one that is probably beyond the current discussion. Personally, I don't really care myself what economic state it's in - all that matters to me is that people are still making stuff and people are still buying stuff.

 

[daltoncalford]

Agreed Tempmal,

That is why I wanted to clarify my position. I do not think like alot of people, never have. Most people do not understand me at the best of times. Combine that with this computer isolated medium and you have a real chance for miscommunication.

I usually think in economic, programming and or mathmatical terms, rarely in terms of emotion.

That is why I drive my wifes paster crazy. He tries to connect to my 'spiritual emotional side' when my life experience has put me in a place, much, much different than he can ever put himself.

So, if you and I are ever in a discussion, please ask me to clarify somthing I say, that way we both fully understand the arguments being put forward.

Best regards

Dalton

 

[Berg]

Originally posted by Dalton:
One of my favorite games is called polyconomy. It is a version of monopoly that has a very specific canadian flavour to it (from the 70's) and we pull it out and play it on every big holiday

Got it, love it. To bad we are on opposite side of the country

Baron Saarthuran von Gushiddan:
Who is the Vargr James Bond?

Here he is!

 

[daltoncalford]

Originally posted by Berg:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dalton:
One of my favorite games is called polyconomy. It is a version of monopoly that has a very specific canadian flavour to it (from the 70's) and we pull it out and play it on every big holiday

Got it, love it. To bad we are on opposite side of the country
</font>[/QUOTE]You think you would have any time to play polyconomy if you where in this neck of the woods? I would have you hooked up with diffent game groups every week (but you would have to learn THE)

Anyway, I just got challenged to come up with a whole new T&T mechanic.

I am curious what I will come up with.

best regards

Dalton