The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
Could Wounded Colossus be a book, Lord Bill? What would it need done to be so?
Who's doing what?
- Thread starter The Hinterworlds Rambler
- Start date
daltoncalford
SOC-12
Well, given my schedule, and the amount I have generated.....perhaps we should consider taking what has been put together, and instead of giving it away for free, we have hunter publish it as pdf for us....
Just an idea.
It would not really affect me at all, but, if it gave you a bit of positive feedback, I am all for charging for the stuff.
best regards
Dalton
BSG,
Wounded Colossus a book? I wouldn't think so...
First, I always point out that iWoCo was never played. It's a 'unproven' setting as far as I'm concerned. To be sure, a setting doesn't require the same kind of play testing than a campaign, adventure, or amber zone. However, a setting still needs plenty of 'third party eyes' to pour over the materials looking for goofs, gaffes, and plain old bloopers.
Second, the WoCo materials you see around the 'net are pasted together from a series of TML posts I made. It is just 3 or 4 emails worth of very basic speculation culled from ~12 pages of somewhat less basic speculation. My own WoCo notes are just that; notes. As it stands now, WoCo is an outline of an outline!
Third, for WoCo to become more of an actual setting instead of a very 'thin' setting suggestion, very specific decisions would have to be made. Several of the other posters have wrote about this. Even in group projects - actually, especially in group projects - specific decisions have to be made and adhered to. Naturally, those decisions will not please everyone in the group. The more decisions that are made, the more feelings there are to get hurt, and less participation is the result.
What sort of decisions am I blathering about? Here are three just off the top of my pointy head:
- Where were you, Strephon?
- The Sixth Frontier War.
- The Alien Incursions.
Settling on 'solutions' for each of those decisions pins WoCo into a very definite shapeand each solution will slay certain sacred cows.
Just last month on the TML, the Aslan invasion got rehashed again with the same old handwaves and same old excuses presented to try and explain the same old, utterly implausible, DGP inspired Aslani takeover of the Trojan Reach. AFAIC, the Aslan invasion was debunked over a decade ago if not even earlier. Yet, there are still people who believe they can make it work canonically(2) despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Fourth, just because I posted WoCo to the TML all those years ago doesn't mean I own it. I routinely and explicitly renounce any and all 'copyright' to anything I post in any forum. If someone else wishes to put together a WoCo 'book' they are more than welcome to do so and the names 'Cameron' or 'Whipsnade' never need appear anywhere at all.
Someday, I may visit WoCo again, but even then I will not make the materials much more specific than they already are. WoCo's 'outline' nature means that more people can use it in their own settings. They may need to add things to get it to 'fit', but they also don't need to remove other thing first.
Have fun,
Bill
1 - How old is WoCo? The materials started off as doodles on a legal pad and then were originally typed up on a Kaypro-II machine using a program called 'WordStar' and the CP/M operating system. I don't have that machine anymore, I don't even have the files anymore. What I do have are several sheets of dotmatrix printouts in a 3-ring binder.
2 - By saying 'make it work canoncially', I mean they believe that the Invasion can occur and succeed as described in canon without having to making any changes or just making minor changes to other canonical information.
Wounded Colossus a book? I wouldn't think so...
First, I always point out that iWoCo was never played. It's a 'unproven' setting as far as I'm concerned. To be sure, a setting doesn't require the same kind of play testing than a campaign, adventure, or amber zone. However, a setting still needs plenty of 'third party eyes' to pour over the materials looking for goofs, gaffes, and plain old bloopers.
Second, the WoCo materials you see around the 'net are pasted together from a series of TML posts I made. It is just 3 or 4 emails worth of very basic speculation culled from ~12 pages of somewhat less basic speculation. My own WoCo notes are just that; notes. As it stands now, WoCo is an outline of an outline!
Third, for WoCo to become more of an actual setting instead of a very 'thin' setting suggestion, very specific decisions would have to be made. Several of the other posters have wrote about this. Even in group projects - actually, especially in group projects - specific decisions have to be made and adhered to. Naturally, those decisions will not please everyone in the group. The more decisions that are made, the more feelings there are to get hurt, and less participation is the result.
What sort of decisions am I blathering about? Here are three just off the top of my pointy head:
- Where were you, Strephon?
- The Sixth Frontier War.
- The Alien Incursions.
Settling on 'solutions' for each of those decisions pins WoCo into a very definite shapeand each solution will slay certain sacred cows.
Just last month on the TML, the Aslan invasion got rehashed again with the same old handwaves and same old excuses presented to try and explain the same old, utterly implausible, DGP inspired Aslani takeover of the Trojan Reach. AFAIC, the Aslan invasion was debunked over a decade ago if not even earlier. Yet, there are still people who believe they can make it work canonically(2) despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Fourth, just because I posted WoCo to the TML all those years ago doesn't mean I own it. I routinely and explicitly renounce any and all 'copyright' to anything I post in any forum. If someone else wishes to put together a WoCo 'book' they are more than welcome to do so and the names 'Cameron' or 'Whipsnade' never need appear anywhere at all.
Someday, I may visit WoCo again, but even then I will not make the materials much more specific than they already are. WoCo's 'outline' nature means that more people can use it in their own settings. They may need to add things to get it to 'fit', but they also don't need to remove other thing first.
Have fun,
Bill
1 - How old is WoCo? The materials started off as doodles on a legal pad and then were originally typed up on a Kaypro-II machine using a program called 'WordStar' and the CP/M operating system. I don't have that machine anymore, I don't even have the files anymore. What I do have are several sheets of dotmatrix printouts in a 3-ring binder.
2 - By saying 'make it work canoncially', I mean they believe that the Invasion can occur and succeed as described in canon without having to making any changes or just making minor changes to other canonical information.
daltoncalford
SOC-12
Stuff in the Pan.
Traveller Home Edition Rules.
Book 0:Getting Started Guide - is complete from a text standpoint, but the graphics/layout changes with the wind. Getting alot of help from Andrew on this.
Book 1: Character Creation is under complete rewrite. It currently went too gearheady and I want it back to the 'five minutes and we are playing' rule.
Book 2: Equipment is filled with stolen graphics (as placeholders) and playtested equipment - it is a big catalog of stuff. It will never see the light of day until all the placeholder graphics are replaced with non-copywrite infringing material.
Book 3: Combat, 147 pages that needs to be trimmed down to 64 - I need to get my diarea of the keyboard corrected.
Book 4: Worlds Too much plagerised stuff from DGP and others that needs to be fixed before it hits the net.
Book 5: Encounters Not Done
Book 6: Economics Lots of charts and notes but that is about it.
Book 7: Space Travel - Complete but pretty light on stuff since it is covered in alot of the other books.
Book 8: Equipment Design - Original work scrapped, new notes being made.
Book 9: Vehicle Design - 80% complete
Book A: Starship Design - Text complete, waiting for unified look and feel to be decided upon before posting.
Book B: Robot Design - Not even started
Book C: Small Arms Design - Not even started
Book D: Corporations - Needs to be trimmed down so that you do not need a MA is Business administration in order to use it.
Book E: Governments And Nobility - I know what I want to put here, but, I am still working on another piece of fiction that time is stopping me from completing.
Book F: Military Organizations - Alot of the stuff from the combat book has to be moved over to this book.
Screen Monkey work - Coding and testing Traveller centric user interface/commands using THE rules.
Of course all this is sharing time with being a dad, work, starship troopers and life in general.
How is that for a quick summary of what I am up to.
best regards
Dalton
Traveller Home Edition Rules.
Book 0:Getting Started Guide - is complete from a text standpoint, but the graphics/layout changes with the wind. Getting alot of help from Andrew on this.
Book 1: Character Creation is under complete rewrite. It currently went too gearheady and I want it back to the 'five minutes and we are playing' rule.
Book 2: Equipment is filled with stolen graphics (as placeholders) and playtested equipment - it is a big catalog of stuff. It will never see the light of day until all the placeholder graphics are replaced with non-copywrite infringing material.
Book 3: Combat, 147 pages that needs to be trimmed down to 64 - I need to get my diarea of the keyboard corrected.
Book 4: Worlds Too much plagerised stuff from DGP and others that needs to be fixed before it hits the net.
Book 5: Encounters Not Done
Book 6: Economics Lots of charts and notes but that is about it.
Book 7: Space Travel - Complete but pretty light on stuff since it is covered in alot of the other books.
Book 8: Equipment Design - Original work scrapped, new notes being made.
Book 9: Vehicle Design - 80% complete
Book A: Starship Design - Text complete, waiting for unified look and feel to be decided upon before posting.
Book B: Robot Design - Not even started
Book C: Small Arms Design - Not even started
Book D: Corporations - Needs to be trimmed down so that you do not need a MA is Business administration in order to use it.
Book E: Governments And Nobility - I know what I want to put here, but, I am still working on another piece of fiction that time is stopping me from completing.
Book F: Military Organizations - Alot of the stuff from the combat book has to be moved over to this book.
Screen Monkey work - Coding and testing Traveller centric user interface/commands using THE rules.
Of course all this is sharing time with being a dad, work, starship troopers and life in general.
How is that for a quick summary of what I am up to.
best regards
Dalton
Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
"Well, given my schedule, and the amount I have generated.....perhaps we should consider taking what has been put together, and instead of giving it away for free, we have hunter publish it as pdf for us...."
I never turn down money, but I think this would make life complicated, especially since Hunter is still MIA.
I never turn down money, but I think this would make life complicated, especially since Hunter is still MIA.
T
TempMal
Guest
QLI is not the best route to go through to publish something - remember they had been sitting on several completed manuscripts (a few of which were submitted by Flynn IIRC) even before they officially went into limbo.
If you want something published, the only options really are SJG (proven, but rather specific and not IME the best people to work for) or Avenger (which remains unproven).
If you want something published, the only options really are SJG (proven, but rather specific and not IME the best people to work for) or Avenger (which remains unproven).
Border Reiver
SOC-14 1K
Or contact Marc, ask about licensing and do it yourself. 
Avenger has my two manuscripts, as my gentlemen's agreement was with Martin in regards to them, and the first of the two, Robots of Charted Space, is already done (except that it has no artwork.) When Avenger goes live at Comstar, you'll get the chance to pick that one up. The second one, Robot Adventures, should be through layout in a few weeks, and so should be available rapidly after that.
So if you are interested in Robots, particularly for T20 and/or within the context of the Gateway Domain, please consider purchasing these two products as they become available.
Hopefully, that will show those interested that Avenger is ready to move on matters Traveller, assuming Martin believes your product fits the direction of Avenger's product lines.
Enjoy,
Flynn
So if you are interested in Robots, particularly for T20 and/or within the context of the Gateway Domain, please consider purchasing these two products as they become available.
Hopefully, that will show those interested that Avenger is ready to move on matters Traveller, assuming Martin believes your product fits the direction of Avenger's product lines.
Enjoy,
Flynn
daltoncalford
SOC-12
Guys,
I would give my work to Marc if he wanted it.
The only reason for selling this stuff is due to the fact that not all the contributors have a job like mine.
I would pay Andrew for his contributions if I didn't have a wife who would kill me (she is already going a deep shade of purple when she saw my budget for my skinny army -neat trick since she is naturally deeply tanned...)
Also, given the amount of stuff yet to be done, I don't know how many of you would purchase a generic set of rules like what I have been producing.
best regards
Dalton
I would give my work to Marc if he wanted it.
The only reason for selling this stuff is due to the fact that not all the contributors have a job like mine.
I would pay Andrew for his contributions if I didn't have a wife who would kill me (she is already going a deep shade of purple when she saw my budget for my skinny army -neat trick since she is naturally deeply tanned...)
Also, given the amount of stuff yet to be done, I don't know how many of you would purchase a generic set of rules like what I have been producing.
best regards
Dalton
Border Reiver
SOC-14 1K
Yeah, wouldn't it be nice if BITS did a collection of their 101 supplements. 1010 BITS of Stuff as it were.
BITS have consistantly produced excellence. Some of the most useful Traveller material I own.
BITS have consistantly produced excellence. Some of the most useful Traveller material I own.
I'd be interested to hear why you think combining the 101 books into a single volume would be a good idea. I feel that it's an advantage to have them as separate books. I use particular ones when I'm prepping for a game and others for when I'm running a game.
I do feel that producing them in A4 size many be a worth while exercise as I'm sure games shop owners never really know what to do with them.
Please don't take this as a flame or anything like that, I'm actually very interested in your reasons for suggesting it.
Border Reiver
SOC-14 1K
I just like portability. The Little NotBlack Books are great but since the advent of FFE's reprints I've found carrying 6 large books to a session less messy than 30+ LBB's and equivalents, a dozen or so 10x8's and whatever else I need.
Actually for true portability now I use pdf's on my ibook. The expose (can't get the ` on the e
) feature on OSX allows me to tunnel through several open documents.
I've now started converting several Traveller publications that are currently unavailable as pdf's for MY OWN PERSONAL USE. I promise these won't be distributed amongst my friends. I am concentrating on items that are out of print and unavailable from any other source (and are likely to remain so).
To this end I'm concentrating on DGP items. I did a copy of TD11 which although was less than professional (teething problems in using the scanner correctly whichwas resolved on later pages) the potential quality was as good as anything from DriveThru.
Back to BITS. Iwas thinking that certain books lend themselves to being collected, e.g. Governments, Religions, Corporations; or Plots, Patrons, Rendezvous etc. Just thinking aloud really. Truth be told I'd rather see new 101 books before any collections.
Actually for true portability now I use pdf's on my ibook. The expose (can't get the ` on the e
) feature on OSX allows me to tunnel through several open documents.I've now started converting several Traveller publications that are currently unavailable as pdf's for MY OWN PERSONAL USE. I promise these won't be distributed amongst my friends. I am concentrating on items that are out of print and unavailable from any other source (and are likely to remain so).
To this end I'm concentrating on DGP items. I did a copy of TD11 which although was less than professional (teething problems in using the scanner correctly whichwas resolved on later pages) the potential quality was as good as anything from DriveThru.
Back to BITS. Iwas thinking that certain books lend themselves to being collected, e.g. Governments, Religions, Corporations; or Plots, Patrons, Rendezvous etc. Just thinking aloud really. Truth be told I'd rather see new 101 books before any collections.
Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
I think BITS are having the same problem as QLI, ie Real Life has slowed them down a lot.
hirch duckfinder
SOC-13
Bits have just published a new 101 book -101 Starcrews. I think power projection and its offshoots have been occupying them recently.In my opinion the quality of their traveller product is VERY high and will likely remain so.
T
TempMal
Guest
Er, perhaps what about British Isles Traveller Support (BITS)? There have been times, in recent years, when they were the only organisation publishing Traveller books. </font>[/QUOTE]Forgot about them
daltoncalford
SOC-12
The bits product line is about the best you can get. They are very usefull in game as well as being extreamly funny just to read for the fun of it.
best regards
Dalton
best regards
Dalton
Border Reiver
SOC-14 1K
And they did do some adventures, long Way Home; Space Dogs; The Khiidkar Incident; Delta3 is Down.
Haven't played any, though if the quality is anywhere near any of the other products they'd be well worth forking out a few quid for.
Haven't played any, though if the quality is anywhere near any of the other products they'd be well worth forking out a few quid for.
Also two bibliographies of Traveller products and Traveller articles.
A skirmish level combat system, At Close Quarters.
The first published scenario for T4, A Long Way Home.
A semi-regular newsletter with reviews, articles, con write-ups and scenarios. (Only available to BITS members.)
