Why all the hatas hatin' on MGT?

[mbrinkhues]

Older players will compare Mongoose variant with what came before and find differences. Some good, some acceptabel, some considered unneeded and some bad. Depending on a persons likes/dislikes this will ultimately result in a verdict on the new system.

I.e I like a detailed construction and ship/vehicle operation system with details like power consumption, systems that can be switched on/off, (semi)realistic weapons and ammo allocations etc. So for me MGTs take on vehicles and spacecrafts is second rate compared to Mega, TNE or even GT (with all the quirks GT has)

I like a unified construction system where "one system builds all". Mega almost did it and TNE did. MGT so far has two systems that are so-so compatible and have some elements that are unrealistic (75 percent weight reduction when a support weapon get's vehicle mounted etc.) or too simplified

I prefer a character generation that has some random element yet gives me a high level of control where my character goes. If I start out with "I want to play an Ex-Merchant" I don't want to end up with a drifter that knows every dumpster on ten worlds. So the MGT system with all it's benefits (more careers, all careers the same system) comes in second place after TNE and barely ahead of Mega (due to Mega having the split career system). An no, the "point buy figleave" is not the solution, that system is at best an NPC generator

And so on. In the end the question is "will I play MGT over any of the other systems I own" or (if one does houserules) "Is MGT worth the time/effort to fix what I don't like". And maybe "is supplement x worth buying even if I just plunder it for ideas/gadgets". So far MGT has not delivered for me. It has gotten better in some regions (Replacement of the Mercenary crapgear by proper weapons in the CSC(1)) but so far the time needed to fix the problems outweights the benefits for me. This in turn means that if someone asks "what version to get" my recommendation will be for "another version" even more so since they are cheaper.

Thinks may change if Mongoose delivers what I miss.

(1) That in turn is very close to the "Guns, Gadgets, Gear" supplement of other versions

 

[Beech]

Yes, Spica has done really good stuff. They are the new DGP.

Thanks saundby & aramis on behalf of the SPICA team, those are way cool compliments. & yes there is definitely much Traveller love at SPICA, I am glad it shows.

 

[Plankowner]

Grognard?

Not sure...

Started playing Traveller with the boxed LBBs back in September 1977. Stopped playing around 1983ish due to Real Life.

Never even heard of MT, T4 or TNE until I resurfaced on this board back in 2007. Spent a lot of time trying to figure out what all the terms meant and then what the systems meant.

I DO like MGT, I like where they expanded character creation and while I am not a huge fan of their ship building system, I preferred HG to LBB2, I can appreciate what they did change from LBB2. I also like most of the supplements; Mercenary is the exception. I like how they have expanded each of the main themes and look forward to the next one.

I DON'T like their editing. I started out pre-ordering books, but now I wait until the second printing so they can fix all the typos.

The SRD for MGT was one of the great boons to the game I believe. Now, if you don't like how MGT did something, write up your own version and Publish it.

 

[captainjack]

The operational (connotative) definition of "grognard" that I am using included "antipathy to any change" as a key element. Obviously, yours is different.

Added by others, who envy our garages packed with games........o:

Fixed yours.

...Thanks . Two beers with dinner and advancing age will do that. Nice to see the typos didn't derail the message.

 

[Nezach]

You look at a DGP supplement, be it a magazine, adventure, or supplementary book, and you can feel the love that went into it.

[snip]

You could tell. The DGP people LOVED Traveller. They did. And, their work showed it.

I think this hits the mark. You could tell those guys were playing the heck out of some Traveller. The quality showed not just in their writing. The artwork and graphics they and the artists they hired produced for Traveller have not been matched in a Traveller line since IMO.

 

[Supplement Four]

The artwork and graphics they and the artists they hired produced for Traveller have not been matched in a Traveller line since IMO.

And, it was just B&W line art, most of it--and I still prefer it to the full color cover of the MGT Vargr or Darrians, because those, to me just__don't__look__Traveller. They look like D&D in space.

If I saw the pics without the words "Traveller" on them, I'd think that they were the covers on supplements for some other game--Alternity comes to mind.

 

[Colin]

I think most objections to Mongoose Traveller boil down to "It's not what I would have done..."

Many of the objections stated have been fair enough. I would have done things differently, too.

In my opinion the OTU cover art work, has been very good to excellent. Prior to this, Traveler cover has often been rather sterile. Interior art work has been fine, with a few glaring exceptions. Deckplans have been poor, but those are expensive and time-consuming to produce.

I prefer crunchy design systems, as they are actually easier to use, or at least easier to get what you want out of them. But I can work with what Mongoose has, with little problem.

Mongoose has, at least revived a moribund game. They are producing product, and getting people involved. They done good stuff, and more good stuff is on the way (like in 2011 )

Oh, and I liked the Star*Drive setting for Alternity. My favourite space opera game setting that I've seen. The Alternity rules? Not so much, and they have a heavy scent-of-Traveller about them, whcih, given TSR's role in the demise of GDW, annoyed me considerably.

 

[fiat_knox]

What's a hata? Is it something like a small green fruit you serve in a dessert fruit salad?
No, sorry, that's a wiki.

 

[jawillroy]

What's a hata? Is it something like a small green fruit you serve in a dessert fruit salad?
No, sorry, that's a wiki.

A hata? It'sa whatchu putta onna you heada whena she'sa getta cold.

 

[kafka47]

Maybe, you should call this by the proper name...most people refer to Mongoose Traveller as MgT as opposed to MegaTraveller...it would be a lot less confusing...

But, why do I hate MegaTraveller...lack of proofreading, some glaring things that ain't Traveller or good SF, a lack of clear direction of the Traveller brand (making it generic like CT). These are things that I can live with.

As even GDW made the same mistakes...so I have less problems with Mongoose than I had with TNE.

Having said that, I find their OTU stuff really strange and I know that is going to change...but it would have been nice if they had a writers' bible or committee of grognards to vet some of their stuff rather than simply relying upon Marc's memory. Which is where some of the proofreading errors could be avoided.

I don't hate MgT, but, I do think if they did look at the corpus of Traveller rules and background more carefully, I think they could have avoided some of the pitfalls that marred things like T20 which I found brought Traveller to level Munchkin role playing after introducing several interesting concepts... But, like all Traveller products, I take what I need to game and not sweat the small stuff.

 

[ThunderChilde]

Art being the realm of personal opinnion, I like the MgT covers for Aslan and Darrians. I don't own a copy of Vargr so I can't really comment on it beyond saying as I recall it didn't bother me.

As for grognard, while I started in 77-78 LBB boxed CT. I walked out into the cold after Mega, 2300 and TNE were not even close to being my cuppa tea.

Mongoose got me to come in from the cold. By and large I like what they've done and seeing as I never collectted any of the old stuff I have nothing to compare it too.

I also stand by the basic idea that it's the current printed edition, has new material, has gone over the old material I never had, I like it.

Play Traveller, Have Fun, Move Along.

 

[HG_B]

As for grognard, while I started in 77-78 LBB boxed CT. I walked out into the cold after Mega, 2300 and TNE were not even close to being my cuppa tea.

Same profile here.

 

[toddaroo]

...but I don't feel like they love Traveller.

You could tell. The DGP people LOVED Traveller. They did. And, their work showed it.

Love the game. It'll show in the work.

I wanna ask, "Where's the love?"

This right here. Though I snipped a lot of it, this for me sums my feelings up perfectly.

Traveller. Mongoose got the Traveller license. Can you imagine how awesome that would be? Alas, though... with every new Riki Tiki Traveller product I buy (and I buy them all) I am disappointed. Oh, I like the new incarnation of Traveller. The Classic feel, the smoother game-play (mostly), and the backwards compatibility with my vast library of CT and MT products.

But where is the love? I don't feel it. I look for it, I do! Every time, in every book.

For me, a lot of it has to do with the simple cover scheme... I absolutely hate what Mongoose chose as their classic Traveller look. I think it fails in a big way (which is one of the driving reasons why I stopped buying the paper books, and printing my own Little White Books). And I just cannot get over it... it just immediately sours me.

Anyway... I'm not a hater. RTT is my preferred version of Traveller at present (though I have begun reading T5 in earnest). And I started playing Traveller in 1980, so I may just barely squeek by as an Old Timer too. There is no hate from me... only a trickle of disappointment.

 

[Gray Lensman]

I started in 77 as well. I still love CT. I have used every system since then, except HT (at least tried them) and incorporated what I liked and discarded (^&*%^$ fat fingers) what I didn't like, simple.

CT++++++, MT+++, GT++, TNE+, T20+/-, T4-, MgT+/-

You use what you like, don't buy it if you don't like it, whatever, it is a free world (for now).

 

[aramis]

And I started playing Traveller in 1980, so I may just barely squeek by as an Old Timer too. There is no hate from me... only a trickle of disappointment.

You started before I did....

 

[rancke]

And I started playing Traveller in 1980, so I may just barely squeek by as an Old Timer too.

I really don't see why someone who has been involved for two decades, let alone three, shouldn't qualify as an old-timer. All you really need is to be able to reminisce about how much better things were in the Old Days. Nowadays you can do that if you started with T20.


Hans

 

[toddaroo]

I really don't see why someone who has been involved for two decades, let alone three, shouldn't qualify as an old-timer.

Ha! I was playing along with the "Old Timer's started in the 70's" comment. But I do agree with you - I consider myself an Old Timer when it comes to Traveller (and most everything else too, sadly).

And like many others I played Classic and Mega both, didn't care much for TNE, but I tried to like T4. I was excited about GT because Gurps puts out quality and because Loren was intimately involved. T20 I skipped as I loathe everything d20. T5 seemed like a pipe dream, though now that I have the CD I can see exactly how much has been done with it and I am liking what I am reading. And Riki Tiki Traveller reignited all the reasons why I loved Traveller in the first place. As to 2300, I really liked the idea of it - I just always thought it went in some product directions that I'd never have taken it...

 

[Gruffty]

Yes, Spica has done really good stuff. They are the new DGP.

<blush> Thank you, Aramis - the Spica team take that as a high compliment.

 

[Gray Lensman]

Gotta admit, I like the more space-opera-y feel of it all

I love Space Opera.

Have you looked at Terra/Sol Games Twilight Sector?

 

[aramis]

<blush> Thank you, Aramis - the Spica team take that as a high compliment.

Just realize, oh tentacled one, that that perception is a two edged sword... we expect the quality to STAY that high!