Why allow Criticism of MGT?

[tbeard1999]

Then your interpretation of our actions is completely incorrect.

I call 'em as I see 'em. And you seem (to me) to be taking this highly personally.

You have frequently attacked people who like MGT - every time when you sneered at people who liked it and called them "irrational fanboys" or some other derogatory name. Or when you claim that anyone who likes it is just blindly loving the game.

Actually, I doubt that you can find much of that from me. In the early days of the playtest, I was somewhat less gracious, but as a rule, I don't intentionally initiate personal attacks. <shrug> I just don't do it. Of course, I *do* respond to attacks. But if I appear to initiate a personal attacks, it's a misunderstanding. Which I am quick to correct and apologize for.

So why can't you accept that Mongoose isn't for you and move on?

Good question. I think that the answer is...because I'm not convinced that it isn't for me. Plus, I enjoy dissecting games -- I'm a game systems wonk.

So if it's all the same to you, I'll continue to critique whatever games I choose to.

 

[drh]

You know the rest of your post so I don't need to quote it, but let me offer a suggestion in a neutral and non threatening way:

A marine walks into a pub and sees another man standing at the bar, screaming at the top of his lungs, pounding his fists on the table and flinging spittile with every pronouncement.

The marine's options would seem to be:

1. ignore the situation
2. attack the man
3. call the police

Which should he do?
(it is a rhetorical question.)

That's not remotely the same as what's going on here.

A better analogy would be that it was a "themed" bar (Ye Olde English Pub, Star Trek bar, Rock Club, whatever), and the same people keep coming into the bar and walking up to tables to complain about the theme every night and annoying everyone in the process. And the landlord and bouncers and even maybe a few policemen are sitting in the bar, just doing nothing about it unless someone complains to them directly, even though they can see that people are being irritated and harrassed.

That sort of behavior would rapidly annoy people in real life. And it obviously annoys people here too.

I would firmly expect the landlords, bouncers, policemen or whatever to just get up and throw those troublemakers out to preserve the sanctity and the peace of the place. They really don't need an invitation to do it. And they'd most likely get a round of applause from the rest of the people in the bar, who can go back to enjoying the place for what it is. Otherwise, those people will just get up and leave and go elsewhere and never come back, and they'll tell everyone else that it's not worth going to that bar because it's too unpleasant and the owners don't do anything to prevent it.

 

[tbeard1999]

I see I wasn't the only one thinking he was virtually b!tch slapping anyone who ever made a house rule.

You are of course, completely wrong (assuming that I am the "he" that you speak of).

Believe me...candor has never been a problem for me. If I insult someone, it will be blindingly obvious. There will be no need for sensitive types to infer this or look for subtle nuances.

Still, if you can point out specifically where I "virtually bitch slapped" folks who make house rules, I'll be happy to point out your error.

 

[atpollard]

That's not remotely the same as what's going on here.

Still, if you can point out specifically where I "virtually bitch slapped" folks who make house rules, I'll be happy to point out your error.

:rofl: Both of these are too funny for words (for completely different reasons).:rofl:

Sorry, but I need to go earn some money now.
Carry on without me.
Arthur

 

[tbeard1999]

Not really a bitch slap - just a personal opinion, as far as I can tell from the quote, granted, and opinion presented with great authorial gravitas; which I'm sure he'll agree that that doesn;t make it more right or wrong, just more stylish.

Never really thought if it as stylish, but I'll take it.

Yup, it's just my opinion.

Still, He was skirting (or dodging) a question that is somewhat relevent to the topic of "why not MT (or CT or T4)" -why do classic and MT get a pass on eratta and need for houseruling when considering comparative value ? I'm not suggesting that the previous editions are a justification for ignoring faults in MgT, but it is relevent to the question of "how do they compare" . Which was the topic that spawned this.

Again, assuming I am the "he" that is being spoken of.

I do not intentionally dodge relevant questions for the simple reason that to do so is strong evidence that your position is weak. Since I don't defend weak positions, you can see why dodging relevant questions is a no no for me. Of course, I may overlook questions, not immediately recognize their relevance or disagree with their relevance, but that's not the same thing as "dodging" or "skirting", seems to me.

Regarding the question that you posed, I'll answer that I do not criticize MGT for requiring errata. Indeed, I have defended Mongoose on this point and generally asserted that the should not be singled out. You may have missed it because I concealed it by saying things like this:

However, I don't think that it's fair to single Mongoose out on this point -- not that you're doing that. Considering the business that they are in, I'd say their stuff has not been unduly plagued with errors. Of course, I think they'd agree that it hasn't been notably free of errors either

And I do think that their customer service is excellent, having been the beneficiary of it.

Like it or not, our hobby is characterized by less perfection than other publishing fields. As someone who has put out a game and made huge efforts to get it perfect, I can attest that errors are effectively impossible to eliminate.



So, you see, I have not crtiticized MGT for errata. I *have* criticized Mercenary for poor writing (and by extension) editing. I stand by those criticisms. However, a new version of Mercenary has been released, which may (or may not) render these criticisms moot.

Nor have I been unwilling to criticize other editions of Traveller. I didn't care for CT's combat system, for instance. Didn't like MGT's combat system. Despised TNE's combat system. Liked T4's combat system; hated almost everything else. Don't like GURPS for reasons far too numerous to list. Didn't care for the d20 system, so T20 doesn't appeal to me.

So it might be just as well to go after arguments I actually make...

 

[captainjack]

Again, assuming I am the "he" that is being spoken of.

I do not intentionally dodge relevant questions for the simple reason that to do so is strong evidence that your position is weak. Since I don't defend weak positions, you can see why dodging relevant questions is a no no for me. Of course, I may overlook questions, not immediately recognize their relevance or disagree with their relevance, but that's not the same thing as "dodging" or "skirting", seems to me.

So it might be just as well to go after arguments I actually make...

Actually, Ty, poor choce of words on my part. I understand you don't think the issue is germaine to a criticism of MgT; nor was I trying to imply that you did; in fact, if I had any thought more than typing a quick intro, I would have intended to express that you dodged it it simply becuase you felt it irrelevant.....
That said, I probably should have said -"touched on", even "drew my attention to". The thread was aimed at why one should choose MgT over another ; so I wanted to ask the question of others -why then are the comparisons getting a free pass for canon change, eratta, and general brokenness, or excesive sparseness ?

 

[Supplement Four]

And what you don't see is the number of times Ty or S4 or ___ gets warned to tone down.

Hey, you've got to admit, I've been a pretty good little bunny lately.

 

[ThunderChilde]

<rubs the bunny's ears, looks speculatively at its feet>
Yes, you have been S-4, and I said as much in a thread here'bouts. I, atleast, have been appreciative.

 

[Supplement Four]

<rubs the bunny's ears, looks speculatively at its feet>
Yes, you have been S-4, and I said as much in a thread here'bouts. I, atleast, have been appreciative.

Crap! I missed it!

And, stop looking at my bunny feet.

 

[ThunderChilde]

S4 is of a kind, but usually worse in application. In S4's case it's the endless mantra of CT is the Holy of Holies, and we heathens all have it wrong position he usually stakes out. That and flaying Mongoose near endlessly for failing to meet his expectations. That doesn't mean he doesn't have good ideas, I just find them on the CT forum, not here.

It needs to be noted that S4 has dratically improved the tone and friendliness of his posts recently. He also posts here less often, unless he has a good point to make. I applaude him for that. Anywhere else on the boards I seldom feel anything other than appreciation for him

There you go, posted on Friday or Saturday night, over on "What do you love about MGT".

 

[Supplement Four]

There you go, posted on Friday or Saturday night, over on "What do you love about MGT".

But...but...CT is the Holiest of Holies!

Naw...stop laughing. It is! Believe me! I wouldn't lie to you.