Would it be possible...

[Gray Lensman]

Could a say 5000 ton ship carry a refinery and some manufacturing capability? Carry say 3 100 ton Seekers/Belt Miners.

I know I can carry the subcraft but do you think the refinery gig is doable?

I am designing a J3, TL12 colonization fleet and would like to have some manufacturing capability when I arrive at my destination.

What do you think?

 

[Mithras]

Isn't there a 5000 ton ore refinary built using Book 2 in the old Beltstrike game? Sounds doable to me! Have a look on the Traveller CD-ROM if you have it, it will be in there.

 

[Hal]

If you own a copy of WORLD TAMER'S HANDBOOK, I suggest you read the material contained in that. On the other hand, if you don't have it, then you're going to have to pretty much wing it as far as what was provided for in the rules for CT and the reality you'd like to model. As Mr Chase has stated, it is possible to do in today's world. One reason that Air Craft Carriers were dispatched for humanitarian reasons during the Tsunami event that took place relatively recently, is because the facilities of the ship are just totally outstanding from the standpoint that they are mobile factories, purification plants, etc that can reach most anywhere the ship can itself go. Perhaps digging into Megatraveller material or Traveller the New Era might be the direction you want/need to go. Pocket Empires even, has rules about infrastructure costs for a given society, which can be implemented to some degree for use with a world/colony without an infrastructure in place.

 

[savage]

if it helps

http://www.angelfire.com/empire2/savage/1WorldOrder/My_Popular-Media-Designs/Hephaestus_FS.html

I did a smaller version based on BG if it helps.

 

[Gray Lensman]

a small rag tag fleet....

A not so rag tag fleet was actually sort of what I had in mind.....

Nice Design Savage, thanks, now to convert to CT.

Hal, I lost all my MT stuff over the years but somehow managed to hang on to all my CT stuff (how strange is that, hehe) I do have the TNE Book though.

Dave, your mobile workshop as already been pilfered (along with the whole Shotgun), but need refined metals to work with.

You will all get to see what I am working at when I get it finished.

Thanks,

Dan

 

[Hal]

Hal, I lost all my MT stuff over the years but somehow managed to hang on to all my CT stuff (how strange is that, hehe) I do have the TNE Book though.

Dan

Sorry to hear that Dan,
However, all is not lost if you're interested in data as opposed to dead tree editions of older traveller stuff. For example? The World Tamer's Handbook can be had for a mere $7 as a PDF at RPG now, as are many of the PDF's from Far Future Enterprises.

I did a quick check at RPGNOW for Pocket Empires, and found that it too is available. Ultimately, both WTH and PE can be had for $15 - which I would suggest you make a strong effort to pick up for your campaigns if you are oriented at all towards background material rules for detailing worlds at a society level. One of my "dreams" if you will, is to use PE with the Island Clusters from Trillion Credit Squadrons, and run the entire thing as a High Guard/TCS type campaign where the RIU output for an empire is translated directly into local credits. From there, players would then utilize their own budgets and design processes as best as they can. The ground surface combat system from PE could pretty much handle anything that Fifth Frontier Wars handled (if memory serves me right). So - whatcha waiting for?

Hal

 

[boomslang]

I am designing a J3, TL12 colonization fleet and would like to have some manufacturing capability when I arrive at my destination.

What do you think?

It depends on your rules/version.

Under BT, for example, you cannot build a J-3, 5000-dton hull even at TL15.

The CT Beltstrike module did feature 5000-dton 'mining platforms' used as bases of operations however, so there might be some sort of precedent.

 

[savage]

CT

A not so rag tag fleet was actually sort of what I had in mind.....

Nice Design Savage, thanks, now to convert to CT.

Hal, I lost all my MT stuff over the years but somehow managed to hang on to all my CT stuff (how strange is that, hehe) I do have the TNE Book though.

First thanks. Change a pic/name to be anything you want. I think its smaller than what you wanted. And if I reinvestigate after the new series I might find it should be bigger than I expected.

I wonder if I have a CT version... hmm so many designs I didn't put on the site after I focused on T20.

 

[stealth]

Gray Lensman, you could do it with a dispersed structure.

It would have to carry plenty of saucers (config-6) to refuel it, but really only a dispersed structure can be a true multi-purpose vehicle.

With config-7, all the rules for allocating docking space go away. Just build a jump engine and load it with manufacturing equipment, cargo, and engineers. A single small craft yard is all you would need.

 

[BlackBat242]

It depends on your rules/version.

Under BT, for example, you cannot build a J-3, 5000-dton hull even at TL15.

I assume you mean "Basic Traveller"? By which I guess you refer to books 1-3?

Guess what... the rules do allow a 5kt J3 ship...or a 5k J4 one, for that fact.

Nothing in the rules says you cannot install more than one jump drive or maneuver drive from the table into a ship hull from the table.

Nor does it say you cannot get combined performance figures from such multiple drives.

All it says is that you can only use the drives on the table and hulls no larger than 5kt.


CT is a game from the early RPG era, where the rules were intended to create a minimum background, with only those restrictions that are specifically stated. "That which is not forbidden is allowed".

The concept that "that which is not allowed is forbidden" is one that only appears later, in the rules-heavy MT/TNE era.

Thus, a 5kt hull with a W drive and a Z drive combining to move the ship at J3 is not forbidden. It is inefficient, but it is not forbidden.

 

[rancke]

CT is a game from the early RPG era, where the rules were intended to create a minimum background, with only those restrictions that are specifically stated. "That which is not forbidden is allowed".

The concept that "that which is not allowed is forbidden" is one that only appears later, in the rules-heavy MT/TNE era.

My preferred variant of that rule is "That which is internally consistent is allowed; that which is self-contradictory is forbidden".

But that's just me .



Hans

 

[aramis]

I assume you mean "Basic Traveller"? By which I guess you refer to books 1-3?

Guess what... the rules do allow a 5kt J3 ship...or a 5k J4 one, for that fact.

Nothing in the rules says you cannot install more than one jump drive or maneuver drive from the table into a ship hull from the table.

Nor does it say you cannot get combined performance figures from such multiple drives.

All it says is that you can only use the drives on the table and hulls no larger than 5kt.

I believe he means Bk 2, wherein one can NOT get a 5KTd past that since the rules state 'a jump drive', 'a maneuver drive', and 'a power plant', that means 1, not 2 or more added together. It would require a specific enabling text to add two drives together, especially since in later printings of Bk2 and in TTB it specifies the powerplant must have a letter greater than the drive's.

Since the rules make no provision for other than a single drive of a given type, extras are outside the rules.

Further, it's clarified in Bk 5 that only one of each type drive is operational at a time, and that extras installed are dormant.

Under the strictest interpretations of Bk2, one can't even make an Express boat, since no provision for less than a month of fuel is included... Until Bk 5, backups were not allowed.

 

[BlackBat242]

Again, the later view of "that which is not specifically spelled out in the rules is forbidden".

Just install 2 power plants as well... no problem.

Book 5 rulings are not part of book 2... they are a later addition, and not part of "Basic Traveller" (sometimes called "Proto-Traveller).

 

[aramis]

Keep in mind: Traveller was written by Wargamers, not hard core RPGers (not that many existed in that day, anyway)... Rules were written in a generally literal style.

GM's were encouraged to make new rules for uncovered situations, but rules were written to be read as explicit, just like wargames.

The concept and conceit that "Rules are Just Guidelines" was not a major strand until the 80's... Many 80's RPGs explicitly took the "If it ain't prohibited, it's allowed"... but many older games were written by wargamers.

 

[Maccat]

I haven't the world tamers handbook (cry), so have taken different approaches to manufacturing, one is from TCS as port manufacturing/building capacity, but it seems impossible 1000people per ton, then there are more detailed work ups in T4 Pocket Empires, but it focuses more on the whole system level. There *is* a conversion though to Credits produced by people. It also has any population 3 or less (1000s to 1s) is primarily a resource extraction place, like a mine or farm.
In the Merchant Prince, it's possible to get cargoes from Barren (pop 0) worlds (at least in the text description), and also i took it further, where crew on dedicates to resource gathering count as that population for the trade cargo generated. You could even do the speculative trade to identify what resource is being gathered. This makes for getting 10 people harvesting gets Pop 1 cargoes, 100 people harvesting pop 2 cargoes, etc. I tend to figure they need to do it full time so are in excess of the crew. the skills that add to getting cargoes then are pretty useful specifically Liason for minor cargoes (maybe it's filling out the import/export documents for salvage or somesuch). I imagine you could extend this, where dedicated people working on a ship at processing/manufacturing/growing, given x amount of base resources, process xtons genning minor cargo lots of whatever? There's *sort of* stuff like that in Beltstrike talking about ice mining, for life support, though i'm still working out the rates on it. Jope this helps some!

 

[rancke]

Just use HG or, better yet, QSDS1.5 to design the ship instead of Book 2. Problem solved .


Hans