Yeeehaww!!! I got it!! I got a copy of T20!

[hunter]

Originally posted by Garf:
So far I've generated one character.
I thank heaven I've played both D&D 3e and Many incarnations of traveller.

Chargen is Not entirely straight foreward without this experience. there is no simple short checklist for the ignorant, dumb or merely out of practice.

Is it the d20 end of the Chargen or the Prior History end that is the problem? Or both?

Unfortunately on the d20 end there isn't much we can do about that due to the license. If it's with the Prior History end, well that we can do something about of course

another question. Does the player level up each term or roll up all at once, or some combination there of? or is that up to the gm?

I'd recommend checking for level advancement at the end of each term and applying the effects immediately if your character has gone up in level. At certain character levels you earn an Ability Score increase which may affect later Survival, Commission, Promotion, and other term related checks.

Of course, in the end it is ultimately up to the Referee.

Hunter

 

[PapaGolfWhiskey]

a bit of both:

this was my first try at it. however, I found myself paging back and forth and switching between books alot.

Too late to do you any good, but I think some sort of quick, point form, step by step list of how to go about chargen would have been an Idea. I felt unsure as to what class a character leveled up in as a result of university experience or if it was denied to certain classes. (ie Rogues, in the example, the rogue character doesn't go to university because rogues can't)

I chose to assume (and will rule in games I referee) that you have to pick a core class, THEN go to university and level up in that class. However, it's not made clear that this is the route to take.

As for leveling up after a term. The first term offers a very good chance that a character might make 3 or even 4th level. Can/should/was it expected that, a player apply the 'leveling' rules for these all at once or go through the motions of leveling up for each level in a dreary cycle?

Even after the first term. there is a possibility that a character might be close enough to a given level to jump two levels on the experience earned. (unlikely as levels increase but not impossible say between the top of 3rd and the very bottom of fifth) so the issue might come up more than once.

Any negativity implicit in this or earlier posts is not intended to be down on the game. I love traveller, and t20 looks like it's going to rock, and the book is very nice. Unfortunately, like all human works, it's not perfect. I just think I stumbled accross one of the imperfections.

 

[Maspy]

Originally posted by Garf:

another question. Does the player level up each term or roll up all at once, or some combination there of? or is that up to the gm?

Sssssniiiiffffffffffff. Ah, the smell of a new game book. More pleasing than the smell of a new car... Ahhhhhh. Sorry, faded away a bit.

Garf, from looking at the sample character created in the book, I would say you level up at the end of each term. After each term, the sample rogue's stats are redone, sometimes even jumping two levels...

 

[Smiling DM]

Originally posted by hunter:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Garf:
another question. Does the player level up each term or roll up all at once, or some combination there of? or is that up to the gm?

I'd recommend checking for level advancement at the end of each term and applying the effects immediately if your character has gone up in level. At certain character levels you earn an Ability Score increase which may affect later Survival, Commission, Promotion, and other term related checks.

Of course, in the end it is ultimately up to the Referee.

Hunter[/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]I'd second that recommendation - I created several characters under the Lite rules, and 2 with the new book. Becuase of the skill points to be spent, especially at first level when you have a bunch, it is much easier to level the character after each term. This reinforces the character concept because you can see the game mechanic aspect growing as the history unfolds.

I did have a few problems with the 1st character I created, but the rest came much more easily. I don't think there's a problem with the layout, its just a matter of getting used to where the tables are. Nothing different than picking up any other new game.

 

[PapaGolfWhiskey]

That's probably the Case. New book and mechanics that's all...

 

[Gaming Glen]

Something that I forgot that I wanted to mention...

Some of the things people suggest could make it to the "referee's" pack/screen as extra goodies. Such as checklists for character and vehicle design.
Hopefully?

Glen
Dragon's Lair Games
Ft. Lauderdale, FL

 

[yaskoydray]

Hi folks, I would agree so far with the others who've said that one should develop the PC between terms of duty. My friend wasn't clear on that with his first PC, and was a bit frustrated that character generation procedure was not totally obvious upon first use. Though I think if one reads the appropriate sections of the book carefully--including a close look at the Rogue example--it comes together in one's head on the second try. Ya just have to try a few to see it clearly. (Ease of use vs game sophistication is a hard act to balance, ain't it?)

However, speaking of rules clarity. An itemized listing of the steps to take to make a PC (even an NPC) would have been nice... Nothing a page at this website couldn't do. A Help-for-beginners or a Designer's-advice-for-T20-users page could be really nifty. Just one page of remarks. That way the intentions behind the rules could be seen and help us all a great deal. What about that?

The above critiques are finer points to me, and they have not undermined my good impressions of this cool rules set.

-Y.

 

[yaskoydray]

Okay folks, now that my have seen my copy of T20 again, albeit temporarily, I have a couple of other interesting details to share (I made a few notes)...

Here's the complete list of the T20 HB's races:

Humaniti - Vilani (they have the longest lifespans in T20...)
- Solomani (you know who...)
- Mixed Race (nothing stands out as special IIRC for this)
- Zhodani (

)
Vargr
Aslan

Lurani - a minor human race that's amphibious (an Ancient experiment)
Sydites - a minor human race that's geneered as slave/worker/warriors (also an Ancient experiment)
Ursa - an uplifted animal race (bear-like), minor (Humaniti's tinkering--not of Ancient design!)
Virushi - a minor alien race (we CT fan's remember these guys! Right?

)

Then there's some interesting items of note IMHO (which I basically like):

1) In the Appendix at the back, all the NPCs are 6th level characters... This implies we have to approach this game with the attitude that 1st level is very underdeveloped (although playable if Refereed well)--but that makes sense, the prior learning system would not work if after 4 terms one was still a first level PC. Prior History, for those still wondering, awards XPs, feats and skills to developing characters before they are ready for play. A Naval officer, retiring after 5 terms in Navy service, could enter play with 10 character levels and a host of feats and skills at age 38... (My friend's PC did just that.)

2) Homeworld: this is a small but essential component to PC generation. At the start of a PC's creation, it bestows a few extra specific skills, and certain feats might accrue too... All PCs and NPCs must have this wee step done before proceeding with further generation. This isn't so obvious as written in the book--but you can see it if you think about it.

3) Service Classes do NOT have the *4 factor applied to their starting skill points as starting Core Classes do--but man, do they get big feat chains/lists! I haven't poured over the details of the classes 100%, but I think this is conceptually interesting...

4) Army, Marines and Navy have an OTC. Scouts, although a service class like the other 3, do not. However, Merchant, a Core Class, DOES have an OTC! Was this so in CT initially?

5)Barbarians, even though they are Core, and have no OTC, do have officer ranks representing primitive tribal rankings from O2 to O6. "Warrior", "hunter", "chief", titles like that... I thought that this was a cool touch to this class' rules.

How's that for more nifty news?

-Y.

 

[obsidian]

As I'm the friend that Yaskoydray mentioned,thought I'd say how great T20 traveller looks so far.I'd say that it has some of the great features of CT[which I've been collecting since '81],as well as megatraveller.Though being a gearhead in work as well as in play I still[at the moment]prefer GURPS Traveller for its ability to custom design just about anything[gearhead heaven!].

 

[eclipse]

Originally posted by Yaskoydray:
Okay folks, now that my have seen my copy of T20 again, albeit temporarily, I have a couple of other interesting details to share (I made a few notes)...

1) In the Appendix at the back, all the NPCs are 6th level characters... This implies we have to approach this game with the attitude that 1st level is very underdeveloped (although playable if Refereed well)--but that makes sense, the prior learning system would not work if after 4 terms one was still a first level PC. Prior History, for those still wondering, awards XPs, feats and skills to developing characters before they are ready for play. A Naval officer, retiring after 5 terms in Navy service, could enter play with 10 character levels and a host of feats and skills at age 38... (My friend's PC did just that.)

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
This rather Traveller like IMO. I know of very few CT players who used a character with only a single term of character generation. That is, unless they *wanted* to play a green Marine Private.

2) Homeworld: this is a small but essential component to PC generation. At the start of a PC's creation, it bestows a few extra specific skills, and certain feats might accrue too... All PCs and NPCs must have this wee step done before proceeding with further generation. This isn't so obvious as written in the book--but you can see it if you think about it.

This has a different effect in different versions of Traveller. In TNE, you got a set of homeworld skills. Those differed based on your homeworld. In CT, in a strict mechanics view, it wasn't that important. "You come from a standard Imperial World with a TL of C."

3) Service Classes do NOT have the *4 factor applied to their starting skill points as starting Core Classes do--but man, do they get big feat chains/lists! I haven't poured over the details of the classes 100%, but I think this is conceptually interesting...

Isn't this the first bit of errata for the book?
They do get the *4 factor. This was covered in the T20 section of the board.

5)Barbarians, even though they are Core, and have no OTC, do have officer ranks representing primitive tribal rankings from O2 to O6. "Warrior", "hunter", "chief", titles like that... I thought that this was a cool touch to this class' rules.

</font>[/QUOTE]

 

[eclipse]

Originally posted by Yaskoydray:
Okay folks, now that my have seen my copy of T20 again, albeit temporarily, I have a couple of other interesting details to share (I made a few notes)...

3) Service Classes do NOT have the *4 factor applied to their starting skill points as starting Core Classes do--but man, do they get big feat chains/lists! I haven't poured over the details of the classes 100%, but I think this is conceptually interesting...

-Y.

http://www.travellerrpg.com/cgi-bin/Trav/CotI/Discuss/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=39;t=000002

 

[GypsyComet]

Originally posted by Yaskoydray:
Hi folks, I would agree so far with the others who've said that one should develop the PC between terms of duty. My friend wasn't clear on that with his first PC, and was a bit frustrated that character generation procedure was not totally obvious upon first use. Though I think if one reads the appropriate sections of the book carefully--including a close look at the Rogue example--it comes together in one's head on the second try. Ya just have to try a few to see it clearly. (Ease of use vs game sophistication is a hard act to balance, ain't it?)

However, speaking of rules clarity. An itemized listing of the steps to take to make a PC (even an NPC) would have been nice... Nothing a page at this website couldn't do. A Help-for-beginners or a Designer's-advice-for-T20-users page could be really nifty. Just one page of remarks. That way the intentions behind the rules could be seen and help us all a great deal. What about that?

Such a critter couldn't be published due to the limitations of the D20 licence. Under the terms of the OGL, the book can't explain how to build a first level character, or how to apply experience.

 

[Capt. Blacklight]

I finally found it!!

Seriously, I missed it when it came in on Friday (I had an out of town Band Gig.) I let my copy get sold so other my become addicted and I'll get one from our Distributers on wednesday.
But Damn, It looked Great!!!

 

[yaskoydray]

This rather Traveller like IMO. I know of very few CT players who used a character with only a single term of character generation. That is, unless they *wanted* to play a green Marine Private.

IIRC for Traveller fans, the concept of a few terms under their PC's belts was pretty much standard fair. That being said, I think mid-level PC's is a more interesting fact for those used to leveling up from first 1st playing D&D. Most ppl with d20 experience and very little Traveller would expect PC's to start at 1st level "by default". I personally like what is "assumed" and encouraged in the T20 rules.

Isn't this the first bit of errata for the book? They do get the *4 factor. This was covered in the T20 section of the board.

Thanks eclipse, not having explored much around these boards yet, I was not aware that the *4 factor was errated before I posted--initially I assumed, because it was not applied to all 4 service classes, there was no error. (Sometimes that which is consistant is difficult to see as a "consistant error" unless it's obvious--"creative license" tends to throw a gamer the occasional curveball

.)

Well since some time has passed now that the T20 Handbook has entered the market place, I think I'll lurk around for errata.

-Y.

 

[yaskoydray]

Such a critter couldn't be published due to the limitations of the D20 licence. Under the terms of the OGL, the book can't explain how to build a first level character, or how to apply experience.

I forgot about that legal entanglement

Mind you, I wonder what could be done? I really don't know the d20 license or the OGL well enough to offer ideas. *Sigh*

-Y.

 

[notagoodusername]

Originally posted by Yaskoydray:

Such a critter couldn't be published due to the limitations of the D20 licence. Under the terms of the OGL, the book can't explain how to build a first level character, or how to apply experience.

I forgot about that legal entanglement

Mind you, I wonder what could be done?

Look at this thread:
http://www.travellerrpg.com/cgi-bin/Trav/CotI/Discuss/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000265

Therein I put together a quick step-by-step character creation guide for the non-D20 savvy folks on the boards. You may find it useful.

Shane

 

[yaskoydray]

Thank you very much Shane!

Consider it copied and pasted for reference

-Y.

 

[PapaGolfWhiskey]

Yeah thanks, I have made several copies and keep one in my THB and one in my UGH ph.

 

[James Bolivar DiGriz]

Most Excellent post, Shane!!! Thank You!

 

[Maspy]

Well, I did it. No not that. I picked up my copy last week... I got my bud to buy one. He is a hard core CT player. He cringed at the idea of Traveller characters having... experiance levels .
But, he likes d20 and loves Traveller...

He had the same reaction as I did, when I first saw T20 lite. I fell over when he EM'd me saying... "Why is Randy Quaid on the cover?"

He went looking for a picture of Randy and Chevy 'Clark Grizwald' Chase digging up old coffee cans looking for buried Imperial Solars...