2d6? Why oh why?

[rust]

I can get all those from CT B1 Other too. Of course my way may require more imagination as some skills won't be spelled out for me.

While I also like to offer the players more career choices than most other ver-
sions of Traveller did (with TNE an exception), the more interesting part for
me are the mishaps and events of the MGT character generation, because
they make it somewhat easier for the players to develop a background and
history for their characters.

And, with a little additional work, one can change and expand those mishaps
and events tables for a specific setting, creating a connection between the
history of the setting and the history of the characters.
So, when a new character is generated for my setting, the player will know
exactly what historical events (police action, political scandal, scientific dis-
covery ...) of the setting his character was involved in, and what the cha-
racter's role and the outcome for him was.

Of course, any roleplaying game could do without such a system, but for me
it gives a bit more colour and depth both to the setting and campaign and to
the characters.

 

[rancke]

No, they're not, but where does it say they're not average vis-a-vis NPCs?

Article in one of the early issues of JTAS. Something like "The care and feeding of NPCs". It suggests that it might be OK to tweak an NPC by giving him an extra level or two in his primary skill. This would actually make PCs slihgtly less skillful than the average NPC .

(And, yes, I realize that (most of) the articles in JTAS (including this one) were not canon rules.)


Hans

 

[Imperial Planetologist]

. . . MGT actually does a better job than CT at allowing average citizens to be created with the base chargen system. I think you'll find that CT PCs are hardly average members of society, unless you live in an unusual (by 21st century Western standards) society where 80% of citizens have military or paramilitary training. MGT explicitly offers options like journalists, strippers, farmers and construction workers in the RAW.

All of the options you mentioned here (except maybe farmer - I don't remember ever seeing that one) were covered in articles in JTAS and other periodicals, along with many others, as well as guidance on how to create one's own careers, which I did with abandon.

The Mongoose edition simply benefitted from all the work that was done before it.

And farmer? Please, if I wanted to play Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, I wouldn't reach for Traveller.

Article in one of the early issues of JTAS. Something like "The care and feeding of NPCs". It suggests that it might be OK to tweak an NPC by giving him an extra level or two in his primary skill. This would actually make PCs slihgtly less skillful than the average NPC .

It's also not an "average" NPC at that point, and has nothing to do with the fact that CT NPCs and PCs shared the same implicit generation system.

 

[rust]

And farmer? Please, if I wanted to play Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, I wouldn't reach for Traveller.

Traveller TNE had a Farmer career, and we have put it to good use in our
campaign.

 

[Imperial Planetologist]

Traveller TNE had a Farmer career, and we have put it to good use in our campaign.

Sorry, but I'm over playing Luke Skywalker.

Now I play Han Solo. Or Lando Calrissian.

 

[DaveChase]

All of the options you mentioned here (except maybe farmer - I don't remember ever seeing that one) were covered in articles in JTAS and other periodicals, along with many others, as well as guidance on how to create one's own careers, which I did with abandon.

...

And farmer? Please, if I wanted to play Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, I wouldn't reach for Traveller.It's also not an "average" NPC at that point, and has nothing to do with the fact that CT NPCs and PCs shared the same implicit generation system.

(humor follows) :rofl:

You got a problem with me? Do you now? You don't think a farmer can ammount to much do you?

Don't think that a farmer can tough it out, doesn't know how to gamble and have a stable life. Well let me tell you mister space man. You just go up there in the cold lonely dark of space. Have your run around a planet or two.

And then see what you are going to eat, who you are going to sleep with and who is going to buy your stuff.

I wont sell you any of my food, and I will lock my kids away from your sight so you wont be too tempted to settle down.

Yea, who wants to be a farmer. Not even that Skywalker kid the next dune over. Hell, no he was up in the stars with all that vaccum for brains of his. Wasn't even around to protect his uncle and aunt, when life came knocking at their door.

So, you just go flying off into the wild black yonder and keep your self all rapped up in that vacc suit.

And BTW Farming has nothing to do with Warhammer. A blacksmith's hammer maybe but thats about it.

Hmmh, Space Brains.

:rofl:

(NOTE: I am a farmer by living and was born a rancher's son. I love space travel and sci-fi. So the above is humor, if you don't get then don't respond).

On a serious note: I can understand people not wanting to play mundane type characters but honestly the character is as mundane as you play it or let become.

And in RL some people are extremely talented and knowledgable but Choose to do something 'ordinary' with their life, like raise kids, farm, run a grocery store, etc.

Why, because that is what they want and or that is the thing that they enjoy (makes them happy). Or maybe they are just inbetween and wanted to do something different.

Dave Chase

 

[DaveChase]

Sorry, but I'm over playing Luke Skywalker.

Now I play Han Solo. Or Lando Calrissian.

As I grew up I realized that Luke was not a farmer. He was the space cadet, vaccum brain, country bumpkin that did not know what farming was really like.

I always wanted to be
Scotty or Spock
Han or Yoda
James Bond or Q

Dave Chase

 

[rust]

Sorry, but I'm over playing Luke Skywalker.
Now I play Han Solo. Or Lando Calrissian.

The Han Solos and Lando Calrissians among the player characters of my
campaign will soon have to transport some livestock - including two ve-
ry irritable Yak bulls - to a remote colony world.

I have no doubt at all that they would love to have someone with the
skills of a farmer with them ... :rofl:

 

[Jamus]

ex-soldier is just as mundane as farmer or colonist IMO.

 

[Madarin Dude]

come back here you young whippersnapper

Well farmer is fine it can add color to a character I don't think I want to run a 7 term farmer character but having one term as a farmer might add some background and a few unusual skills to the mix. (believe it or not I was a farmer before deciding to become a dreaded space pirate)

Skill bloat. I do think that there is a bit of that but now to get the same effect as the last campaign you can have starting characters under 70 years old. (come back here you young whippersnapper I have complete mastery of this pistol and plan on pistol whipping you with it) Put some term limits on them if there is too much. I did not see a problem with characters who were world famous botanist, surgeon, pilot bouncer strippers but that is my observation your mileage may vary.

2D6 i see it as an advantage and a disadvantage. While I like having the ability to fine tune the abilities that you get from using D-20 D-100 or D30. I like that you can raid a Yahtzee set or your old monopoly game for dice. Also there is the curve which I find both good and bad shows that over a certain level things get easy but it can gum up the works a bit too.

 

[rust]

While in many campaigns the characters begin as farmers or colonists and
then become adventurers, our current campaign moves in the opposite di-
rection: Former soldiers or scouts become colonists on a remote frontier co-
lony world, using the skills aquired in their prior careers to explore the planet
and to deal with all the problems a young colony has to face.

One of the colonists, Roul Aulin, began his career on the flight academy, then
served a couple of years as a space fighter pilot, became a prospector after
mustering out of the navy, and now settled down as a ... farmer.
Whenever the colony needs a pilot for a difficult job, they ask Aulin, and more
than a few foreigners have been surprised by his skills and those of the other
"veteran farmers" of the colony.

There are more ways to use a farmer career in a campaign than only that old-
fashioned Skywalker stereotype ...

 

[Imperial Planetologist]

While in many campaigns the characters begin as farmers or colonists and then become adventurers, our current campaign moves in the opposite direction . . .

Somewhat true of ours as well: the current group of characters started off as salvors, then established a shipping line, took over a planet, and are now preparing to colonize another world.

So they're looking to become farmers and miners . . . through the work of the actual colonists, of course.

Besides, they've got a trade war to fight right now, so time for tilling is a bit short.

 

[mctesla]

Documentation?

I have it on what I consider to be good authority (an ex-GDW employee) that throughout the development process, MT was meant to use 1d10 for task resolution, not 2d6.

Steve,

Who is the authority? Inquiring minds want to know!
mega:

 

[aramis]

I'm a bit curious as well, especially considering the DGP task system was published by DGP as 2d6 from the get go, and predates the 1d10 version in T:2300 by a year or so.

 

[the angle]

I'm not sure it would be cricket to pass out names without their owners' permission. For one of them, however, I can narrow the list to people who are named in the MT credits. I'm still in occasional touch with him, so I'll ask how he feels about 'going public'.

Steve

 

[GypsyComet]

ex-soldier is just as mundane as farmer or colonist IMO.

It is a common conceit that farmers are less intelligent, require less education, and are less motivated than, say, a common test tube pusher in a chem lab.

Some of the most respected universities in the US have Ag departments.

Farmers and ranchers are botanists, biologists, and soil chemists on a day-to-day basis, in addition to being veterinary midwives, animal psychologists, carpenters, smiths, mechanics, hunters, and butchers as needed. They can also function as process engineers, brokers, labor relations negotiators, transporters, and surveyors in some cases. Not to mention, in some societies, part-time emergency response firemen and law enforcement. Farmers and ranchers in the modern world drive wheeled and tracked land vehicles routinely, and some will also use boats, small airplanes, and helicopters as part of their jobs.

Don't turn away that farmer who applied to your ship's crew, unless you fear being replaced...

 

[rust]

Farmers and ranchers are botanists, biologists, and soil chemists on a day-to-day basis, in addition to being veterinary midwives, animal psychologists, carpenters, smiths, mechanics, hunters, and butchers as needed. They can also function as process engineers, brokers, labor relations negotiators, transporters, and surveyors in some cases. Not to mention, in some societies, part-time emergency response firemen and law enforcement. Farmers and ranchers in the modern world drive wheeled and tracked land vehicles routinely, and some will also use boats, small airplanes, and helicopters as part of their jobs.

Indeed.

One reason why I welcome the potentially high number of level 0 skills in Mon-
goose Traveller is that it enables the players to create plausible colonist cha-
racters, because at least an experienced colonist = farmer really should be a
well-rounded "generalist" with knowledge and skills from a very diverse number
of fields.

In a way, the character has almost to be able to "go it alone" in his specific
environment, instead of being a member of a team of very specialized charac-
ters, like for example the usual starship crew.

 

[Imperial Planetologist]

Farmers and ranchers are botanists, biologists, and soil chemists on a day-to-day basis . . .

Y'know, that sounds really good and it might've been true forty years ago, but today farmers and ranchers turn to their university extension programs and natural resource conservation district specialists.

That is, people like me (B.S in Botany, M.S. in Range Management).

 

[the angle]

Who is the authority? Inquiring minds want to know!

The story came to me from Tim Brown, who was a designer, developer, and editor at GDW for years before coming to TSR in 1990. We went through it again by email today, and he confirmed my recollections. It was verified at the time by another TSR co-worker who did freelance work for FASA and DGP, but since I haven't been in touch with him or cleared this through him, he'll have to remain anonymous.

I'd like to emphasize that I didn't bring this up to cast aspersions on the staff at GDW or question their decisions. I hold those guys in high regard. I just think it's an intriguing historical footnote on one of my favorite games, so I decided to pass it along.

Steve

 

[aramis]

Interesting, since Tim is one of the designers of 2300, which did release using a 1d10 task system. The DGP guys have, over the years, confirmed that they created a 2d task system, and chose to keep it for MT.

Since MT was collated out-house...