AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Check out bluekierans spreadsheet for MgT2:
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=37290
MGT Only: 300-ton stretched refitted Free Trader
- Thread starter Redcap
- Start date
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=37290
OK, let's look at this from the other side of the box.
Mission requirements, in no particular order:
Utilising a 300-ton crystaliron streamlined hull at TL-11 (TL-B):
This will be an MgT HG 2nd Edition design.
Thoughts?
Mission requirements, in no particular order:
Utilising a 300-ton crystaliron streamlined hull at TL-11 (TL-B):
- To move cargo and passengers a minimum of two parsecs per jump.
- To move the cargo/passengers swiftly and efficiently.
- To protect said cargo/pax from rude interlopers, such as pirates, while getting the hell outta dodge on the hurry-up.
- To be financially viable with no passengers
- To be financially satisfying with passengers
- To be affordable to mortgage
- To be cheap to maintain and operate
This will be an MgT HG 2nd Edition design.
Thoughts?
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Hmm, going by the above OP, he lists drives with a C so by inference, I was under the impression MgT1 had them.
I'm the OP, and the original calcs were performed using the MgT1e Core Rules book. I now have the 2e Rules and HG books, so subsequent versions will be calculated using the MgT2e and HG2e rules. Hope that clears that up
Last edited:
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
You get well payed for longer jumps, so that is not a problem.
Being able to fight and still turning a profit on freight is a problem...
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
MgT1 has lettered drives for small ships, MgT2 only has percentage drives.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
A very basic commercial chassis might look something like this:
Leaving a 150 dT payload.
I included Armour 1 to give you an idea of how much it costs.
This is a cheap basis. You will have to add weapons and armour. Weapons will require more power.
Code:
TL 11 Hull 108 64,0
Desired ∆TL Rat # dTon Cost Power
Hull 300 300 60
Config Streamlined 2 2 13,50
Hull strength Light 1 1
Armour Crystaliron 1 1 3,75 0,68
JumpD Budget 2 -0 2 1 20,00 22,50 78
ManœuvreD Budget 2 -0 2 1 6,00 9,00 78
PowerP (TL8) High Technology 3 1 10,50 7,88 150
Fuel, Jump 2 2 1 60,00
Fuel, Power 4 4 w 1 2,00
Fuel Purification 36 h 36 h 1 2,00 0,10 2
Bridge, Small 1 1 10,00 0,75
Comp m/10 2 10 1 0,16
Backup Comp m/5/bis 1 1 5 1 0,05
Sensors Civilian 1 1 1 1,00 3,00 1
Staterooms 100% 5 5 20,00 2,50
Escape Capsules 1 10 5,00 0,20
Hydroponic Garden
Common Areas 25% 25% 1 5,00 0,50
Low Berths
Cargo 151,00
Cargo Crane 150 dT 1 1 3,00 3,00
Software 0,20
Intellect/0
Jump Control/2 10 0,20
Evade/0
Fire Control/0
Crew 5
Command 0
Bridge 2
Pilot 1
Astrogator 1
Sensor & EW
Engineer 2
Engineer 1,0
Maintenance 0,3
Service 1
Admin 0,2
Medic 0,0
Steward
Gunner
Flight
TroopsI included Armour 1 to give you an idea of how much it costs.
This is a cheap basis. You will have to add weapons and armour. Weapons will require more power.
Interesting design. Did you use a spreadsheet to generate it, perchance?
Also: No passengers, just purely a cargo ship? Interesting!
I used High Guard Shipyard 1.3 (a Classic Traveller program) to come up with the basics of what I'm trying to achieve. It's grim reading for cargo capacity. I still have to work this out in MgT2e/HG2e format/stats, but I'm expecting more of the same. What's basically eating up cargo space is the ship's boat and dock, and the requirement for cabin space. I'll reduce the number of passengers first, and see what that gets me. If I get a design I can work with, then I'll see about changing it up to MgT2e/HG2e.
Code:
Ship: Wilderness Tramp
Class: Wilderness Tramp
Type: A3
Architect: Roger Stenning
Tech Level: 13
USP
AP-3123321-030000-20002-0 MCr 180.170 300 Tons
Bat Bear 3 3 3 Crew: 11
Bat 3 3 3 TL: 13
Cargo: 65
Passengers: 10
Crew Sections: 1 of 11
Low: 10
Fuel: 69
EP: 9
Agility: 2
Craft: 1 x 20T Ship's Launch
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops and On Board Fuel Purification
Architects Fee: MCr 1.662
Cost in Quantity: MCr 146.936
Detailed Description
(High Guard Design)
HULL
300.000 tons standard, 4,200.000 cubic meters, Needle/Wedge Configuration
CREW
Pilot, Navigator, 2 Engineers, 2 Stewards, Medic, 3 Gunners, 1 Flight Crew
ENGINEERING
Jump-2, 3G Manuever, Power plant-3, 9.000 EP, Agility 2
AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/2 Computer
HARDPOINTS
3 Hardpoints
ARMAMENT
3 Triple Mixed Turrets each with: 1 Beam Laser (Factor-2), 1 Missile Rack (Factor-2).
DEFENCES
1 Sandcaster in each Mixed Turret, organised into 3 Batteries (Factor-3)
CRAFT
1 20.000 ton Ship's Launch (Crew of 1, Cost of MCr 14.000)
FUEL
69 Tons Fuel (2 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance)
On Board Fuel Scoops, On Board Fuel Purification Plant
MISCELLANEOUS
15 Staterooms, 10 Low Berths, 10 High Passengers, 10 Low Passengers, 65 Tons Cargo
USER DEFINED COMPONENTS
None
COST
MCr 167.832 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 1.662), MCr 132.936 in Quantity, plus MCr 14.000 of Carried Craft (Hardpoints and Turrets charged)
CONSTRUCTION TIME
71 Weeks Singly, 57 Weeks in Quantity
COMMENTS
Wilderness Tramp Class A3
HULL
Hull: 0.000 Td; MCr 36.000
Armour Factor-0: 0.000 Td; MCr 0.000
ENGINEERING
M-Drive Factor-3: 24.000 Td; MCr 12.000
J-Drive Factor-2: 9.000 Td; MCr 36.000
P-Plant Factor-3: 18.000 Td; MCr 54.000; +9.000 EP
FUEL
P-Fuel: 9.000 Td; MCr 0,000
J-Fuel: 60.000 Td; MCr 0.000
Scoops: 0.000 Td; MCr 0.300
Purification: 5.000 Td; MCr 0.030
L-Hyd Drop Tanks: 0.000 Td; MCr 0.000
AVIONICS
Bridge: 20.000 Td; MCr 1.500
Computer Model/2: 2.000 Td; MCr 9.000; -0 EP
WEAPONRY
3 x Mixed Turrets: 3.000 Td; MCr 9.300
SCREENS
CRAFT
1 x Ship's Launch: 20.000Td; MCr 0.040; Cost of craft: MCr 14.000
ACCOMODATIONS
15.0 x Staterooms: 60.000 Td; MCr 7.500
10 x Low Berths: 5.000 Td; MCr 0.500
Cargo: 65.000 Td; MCr 0.000
USER DEFINEDAnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Of course.
It's just a chassis. You can add payload (staterooms, vehicles, weapons, armour) as needed.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
This is more like what you want:
TL11, 300 dT, J-2, 3G, MCr 93.6.
10 High, 10 Low, 71 dT cargo, 7 crew.
1 turret with 2 pulse lasers and 1 sandcaster
2 fixed mounts with 3 missile racks each (can be fired by bridge crew)
Upgraded sensors and computer.
Collapsible tanks so it can fill the hold with fuel for another jump.
It has 1 point of armour, which is pointless, remove it for 3.75 dT cargo, or add more and deduct cargo.
Note that the last G in acceleration cost about MCr 8. I don't think it is worth it, but it is your ship.
The design is very power starved. At full accel you have to shut down some basic systems. In combat all non-essential basic systems are off-line.
Without armour the ship can destroy itself with a single missile salvo. It can also destroy quite a few incoming missiles with EW, the lasers, and anti-missiles.
Even without extra magazine space it can carry 72 missiles, which is probably enough?
No vehicles, but with streamlining it can land. Individual escape capsules for two people per stateroom.
Code:
TL 11 Hull 108 93,6
Desired ∆TL Rat # dTon Cost Power
Hull 300 300 60
Config Streamlined 2 2 13,50
Hull strength Light 1 1
Armour Crystaliron 1 1 3,75 0,68
JumpD Budget 2 -0 2 1 20,00 22,50 78
ManœuvreD Advanced 3 1 3 1 8,10 17,82 90
PowerP (TL8) High Technology 3 1 10,00 7,50 143
Drop Tank Collar
Drop Tanks
Fuel, Jump 2 2 1 60,00
Fuel, Power 4 4 w 1 1,00
Fuel Purification 36 h 36 h 1 2,00 0,10 2
Bridge, Small 1 1 10,00 0,75
Comp m/15 3 15 1 2,00
Backup Comp m/10 2 10 1 0,16
Sensors Military 2 2 1 2,00 4,10 2
Staterooms 100% 17 17 68,00 8,50
Escape Capsules 1 34 17,00 0,68
Hydroponic Garden
Common Areas 25% 25% 1 17,00 1,70
Low Berths 10 10 1 5,00 0,50 1
Cargo 71,45
Cargo Crane 100 dT 1 1 3,00 3,00
Collapsible Tanks 70 70 0,70 0,00
Mixed Turret Triple, 0 slots 1 3 1 1,00 1,00 1
Pulse Laser Standard 2 1 2 4,00 16
Sandcaster Standard 1 1 1 0,25
Fixed Mount
Missile Triple, Standard 2 3 2 4,70
Software 0,20
Intellect/0
Jump Control/2 10 0,20
Evade/0
Fire Control/0
Crew 7
Command 0
Bridge 2
Pilot 1
Astrogator 1
Sensor & EW
Engineer 2
Engineer 1,1
Maintenance 0,3
Service 2
Admin 0,2
Medic 0,2
Steward 1,0
Gunner 1
Flight
Troops
Passengers
High 10
Mid 0
Low 1010 High, 10 Low, 71 dT cargo, 7 crew.
1 turret with 2 pulse lasers and 1 sandcaster
2 fixed mounts with 3 missile racks each (can be fired by bridge crew)
Upgraded sensors and computer.
Collapsible tanks so it can fill the hold with fuel for another jump.
It has 1 point of armour, which is pointless, remove it for 3.75 dT cargo, or add more and deduct cargo.
Note that the last G in acceleration cost about MCr 8. I don't think it is worth it, but it is your ship.
The design is very power starved. At full accel you have to shut down some basic systems. In combat all non-essential basic systems are off-line.
Without armour the ship can destroy itself with a single missile salvo. It can also destroy quite a few incoming missiles with EW, the lasers, and anti-missiles.
Even without extra magazine space it can carry 72 missiles, which is probably enough?
No vehicles, but with streamlining it can land. Individual escape capsules for two people per stateroom.
Yeah, I noticed the issue with power on the one I'm fighting with on the spreadsheet; the trade-off issue is either passengers, or cargo, you aren't going to get both, not with a 300-ton hull, and more than 2G thrust. Well, not unless you don't care about, oh, breathing and eating, anyhow.
There's going to be a way to crack this nut, but as yet, I've not found it.
o:
There's going to be a way to crack this nut, but as yet, I've not found it.
o:Intriguing designs, Redcap. Thank you for sharing them.
I'm going to echo Brandon Cope's excellent advice and suggest you focus on a base concept first. I'm going to further suggest that your listed mission requirements in Post #22 are both internally inconsistent and over reaching.
You want a design which can Run or Gun while also being affordable to buy and cheap to maintain. Instead of picking two attributes from the classic list of Good, Fast, Cheap, you want to pick all of three. You want a design which is (nearly) all things at (nearly) all times and that cannot be done.
The armed packet you posted first can work - with premium pricing. In certain situations, it's the only one that can reliably get through and thus can name it's rates. Those situations only exist at certain times and places, however, so the armed packet is only viable in certain times and places.
What do you want the design to be? A Beowulf with a higher jump rating which can pay the bills every day? Or a Type-T carries cargo and passengers at premium rates? You cannot have both at the same time.
I'm going to echo Brandon Cope's excellent advice and suggest you focus on a base concept first. I'm going to further suggest that your listed mission requirements in Post #22 are both internally inconsistent and over reaching.
You want a design which can Run or Gun while also being affordable to buy and cheap to maintain. Instead of picking two attributes from the classic list of Good, Fast, Cheap, you want to pick all of three. You want a design which is (nearly) all things at (nearly) all times and that cannot be done.
The armed packet you posted first can work - with premium pricing. In certain situations, it's the only one that can reliably get through and thus can name it's rates. Those situations only exist at certain times and places, however, so the armed packet is only viable in certain times and places.
What do you want the design to be? A Beowulf with a higher jump rating which can pay the bills every day? Or a Type-T carries cargo and passengers at premium rates? You cannot have both at the same time.
No worries
I had a hunch they might be, but if you're going to shoot for the moon, you best begin by taking aim, as the saying tends to suggest
Well, this being a two-gun match (the other guys have guns too, dammit, most unsporting!), run AND gun, actually, but I take your point
And that would primarily be in beating blockades and the like; not too many of those in regular abundance, most times.
Ideally, a Beowulf-format ship of 300 tons that can pay the bills, AND protect itself.
OK. Rationale time: The intention is for PCs on the edge of Empire (both sides of the border, behind the claw) to be using and living on this ship, just past the turn of the 1100s. They'll be hitting regular and speculative cargos, with paying PAX of all three levels as well, and aiming to make a decent living out of things (without getting too shot up in the process).
I decided on a 300-ton hull as (a) I like the number!, (b) I don't like cramped 200-ton traders, or overly large 400-ton jobs, and (c) 300 tons seemed like a good bridge and compromise.
Well, this is turning into a right :CoW:, and no mistake!
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