Yeah, that's the basic concept, anyhow. As you say, though, the ship's not exactly suited, due to its existing shape, so likely as not, I'll wind up drawing a fresh one, but conceptually, it's a fairly sound concept, considering the fat trader and the marava classes.
MGT Only: 300-ton stretched refitted Free Trader
- Thread starter Redcap
- Start date
Yeah, that's the basic concept, anyhow. As you say, though, the ship's not exactly suited, due to its existing shape, so likely as not, I'll wind up drawing a fresh one, but conceptually, it's a fairly sound concept, considering the fat trader and the marava classes.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Something like this?
Code:
TL 13 Hull 108 95,5
Desired ∆TL Rat # dTon Cost Power
Hull 300 300 60
Config Streamlined 2 2 13,50
Hull strength Light 1 1
Armour Crystaliron 4 4 15,00 2,70
Repair Drones 1 1 3,00 0,60
JumpD Budget 2 -0 2 1 20,00 22,50 78
ManœuvreD Budget 2 -0 2 1 6,00 9,00 78
PowerP (TL8) High Technology 3 1 10,00 7,50 143
Fuel, Jump 2 2 1 60,00
Fuel, Power 4 4 w 1 1,00
Fuel Purification 24 h 24 h 1 3,00 0,15 3
Bridge, Small 1 1 10,00 0,75
Holographic 1 1 0,19
Comp m/15 3 15 1 2,00
Backup Comp m/10 2 10 1 0,16
Sensors Military 2 2 1 2,00 4,10 2
Staterooms 100% 16 16 64,00 8,00
Common Areas 15% 15% 1 9,80 0,98
Autodoc (CSC), TL13 1 1 0,50 0,10
Low Berths 10 10 1 5,00 0,50 1
Cargo 75,00
Cargo Crane 100 dT 1 1 3,00 3,00
Collapsible Tanks 70 70 0,70 0,00
Mixed Turret Triple 1 3 1 1,00 1,00 1
Pulse Laser Standard 2 1 2 4,00 8
Sandcaster Standard 1 1 1 0,25
Fixed Mount
Missile Triple,Standard 2 3 2 4,70
Docking Space 10 dT 1 1 11,00 2,75
Utility Boat 3,00
Software 4,04
Intellect/1 10 1,00
Jump Control/2 10 0,20
Evade/2 15 2,00
Intellect/2 0,050
Expert( Pilot )/2 0,010
Expert( Astrogator )/2 0,010
Expert( Engineer/Jump )/2 0,010
Expert( Engineer/Man )/2 0,010
Expert( Engineer/Power )/2 0,010
Expert( Engineer/LifeS )/2 0,010
Expert( Mechanic )/2 0,010
Expert( Vacc Suit )/2 0,010
Expert( Elec/Comms )/2 0,010
Expert( Elec/Comp )/2 0,010
Expert( Elec/Sensor )/2 0,010
Expert( Elec/Remote )/2 0,010
Expert( Gunner/Turret )/2 0,010
Expert( Medic )/2 0,010
Expert( Steward )/2 0,010
Expert( Profession/Cook )/2 0,010
Expert( Tactics/Anti-Hijack )/2 0,010
Security( Computer ) 0,020
Expert( Admin )/2 0,010
Expert( Broker )/2 0,010
Expert( Advocate )/2 0,010
Expert( Diplomat )/2 0,010
Expert( Investigate )/2 0,010
Translator( Zho ) 0,0005
Translator( Darrian ) 0,0005
Translator( Swordie ) 0,0005
Sanitation Droid 1 0,350
Utility Droid 2 0,200
Salaries
Crew 6 21 000
Command 0
Bridge 2 11 000
Pilot 1 6 000
Astrogator 1 5 000
Sensor & EW
Engineer 1 4 000
Engineer 1,0
Maintenance 0,3
Service 2 5 000
Admin 0,2
Medic 0,2
Steward 1,0
Gunner 1 1 000
Flight
Troops
Passengers
High 10
Mid 0
Low 10
Jumps / Year Cost / Jump kCr Revenue / Jump kCr
25 Mortgage 171,5 High 120,0
Maintenance 3,4 Mid 0,0
Fuel 6,1 Low 13,0
Life Support 15,8 Cargo 120,0
Salaries 10,1
Berthing, average 1,8
208,7 253,0
Potential 44,3
Year MCr 1,1300 dT, streamlined, light frame, Armour 4, Hull 108, MCr 95,5 (MCr 86 in quantity)
J-2, 2G, 143 Power, budget drives.
Small Bridge, Holographic controls, Computer m/15, Military sensors.
10 High, 10 Low, 75 dT cargo, 6 crew, 10 dT common areas
10 dT boat
Triple Turret (2 Pulse Laser, Sandcaster)
2 Fixed Mount with 3 missile rack each.
Repair drones, Auto-doc, Sanitation droid (cooks&cleans), 2 Utility Droids
Full complement of expert software to help the crew and operate the drones.
It is slightly power starved. It can run everything normally, but in combat it has to shut down some non-essential basic systems.
Mea culpa. You did explain that to me, twice as a matter of fact.
Mea culpa again. Blame it on "version dissonance". Despite the fact that you've repeatedly wrote you're designing with MgT in mind, I keep thinking CT because I'm a senile old poop.
The freight container size I mentioned is from CT, specifically TTA.
Another good decision. The more "special" you make the design, the fewer people can use it.
Many years ago I chose 300 dTons for good reasons and, with this project, you've chose 300 dTons for equally good reasons. I'm wondering if now it may be worthwhile looking at 400 dTons? Especially given the desire for affordability and a small craft?
There are many good reasons for a small craft and Brandon, one of GURPS most prolific and gifted designers, has alluded to a few. While I decided that my affordability requirements trumped those reasons, there's no real reason why you should make the same choice.
400 dTons will increase the upfront price and continual costs of the design, it will also increase the design's earning potential while also providing "room" for a small craft.
It may be time to look at a larger hull.
Ah, but who's counting?
My late dad had a phrase for that. He called 'em "C.R.A.F.T. moments". "Can't Remember A Flaming Thing" :rofl:
OK, here's MY CRAFT moment. "TTA"?!
There's that too
Hmm...
...*pulling a "not wholly convinced" expression with a vaguely Gallic-style shrug á là Robert de Nero*...
...following the argument, but not quite there yet...
OK, I follow your line of reasoning, but I'm not entirely convinced. The issue is affordability versus subsidisation.
To quote from Classic Traveller Supplement #7, "Traders & Gunboats", pp 21:
This leaves pretty much zero leeway in changing routing to follow an adventure, at all.
An adventurer's ship must, therefore, be mortgaged, or even free from subsidisation/mortgaging (both of which take ten-plus years, by which time, most of the crew are well beyond their adventuring days, and more likely to be looking forward to retiring on a pleasure planet somewhere).
You see the hitch.
Any ideas?
'pends on the mission. "trading" could be a front, or an excuse, or itself subsidized. there's an entire imperium out there run by wealthy nobles, might as well make use of them. "I have interests out there, go trade, I'll communicate with you from time to time about anything I want you to do." "there's pirates surrounding that high-pop world, go do stuff and lure them in and get rid of them." "you're on a recruiting mission, go show the merchant flag and show those outsiders the benefits of being imperial." etc. and it doesn't have to be imperial either, it can easily be corporate or planetary. (couuld be a mercenary company lead boat, looking for action ....)
and if it's for a convention game, just do the best you can and don't sweat it. the players will just want to get in, have a good time, and get out - they're not going to pore over the details of the boat, believe me.
Those are angles I'd not considered. D'OH
Given how much filthy lucre megacorps and PMCs have, it's not without the bounds of possibilty that this is something they'd do; the IMTA (Imperial Merchants & Traders Association) would also do something like that, yeah, agreed. In fact, doesn't the US have a fleet of part-owned merchants (freighters), who undertake to heed call-back for a reduced price ship? So yeah, those ideas can fly.
So, a 400dT hull is plausible for an adventure ship. I've never much liked the fat trader anyhow, so a newer design is needed, methinks.
Since I got home from work a couple of hours ago (late shift), it's time to get some sleep, however.
When I come back from the land of nod, I'll hit the books/spreadsheets again
Sorry, that was a CRAFT moment on my part! TTA is The Traveller Adventure for CT. IIRC, Mongoose has released an update but I've yet to see/read it.
By the way, I'm stealing the phrase "CRAFT moment". Your father was a gifted wordsmith.
Regarding adventuring vs. subsidization, Fly's already shared some good ones.
Fly wisely points out that it's not a binary choice. The players and ship needn't be all of one thing or all of another; i.e. not completely owned but not completely free either. Let me use TTA... excuse me, CRAFT moment
... The Traveller Adventure to explain.The PCs are the crew of a Type-R subsidized merchant flying a route in the Aramis Trace. The terms of their subsidy require them to fly that route 70% of the time. They're then free to use the remaining 30% as they see fit. When TTA begins, the crew has "banked" 80 weeks free time, meaning they've been servicing their route without break for a little over 5 years.
That's the first way to "balance" adventuring with subsidization: Bank free time in accordance with the existing subsidy contract.
As the campaign continues, the PCs become involved with Baron Feri and the struggle between his Oberlindes Line and the megacorp Arekut/Tukera. The baron pays out various sums for various jobs and even charters the PCs' vessel on occasion. This means the PCs aren't out of pocket for all their expenses during their free, off-route, time.
That's the second way to "balance" adventuring with subsidization and the method behind Fly's suggestions: Find mid-term "jobs" and "connections" which help defray your operating costs.
At the campaign's end, Baron Feri is so thankful for the PCs' help he purchases their ship from it's owners and gives it to them free and clear.
That's the third way to achieve "balance" and it does so by removing the mortgage entirely!
IMEHO, the second way is preferable from a RPG play standpoint. The players aren't forced to "save" time or gifted it outright. The players aren't simply given a ship either. Instead, their "rights" to do/go what/where they will come with "duties" and "responsibilities" which allow the referee some measure of control. This way does create more work for the referee however.
Got it (I've got the entire CT books lot from GDW on disk
), pp134 deckplan. D'oh. Shoulda remembered that myself. He had his moments
Regarding adventuring vs. subsidization, Fly's already shared some good ones.
Fly wisely points out that it's not a binary choice. The players and ship needn't be all of one thing or all of another; i.e. not completely owned but not completely free either. Let me use TTA... excuse me, CRAFT moment
*chuckle*
Hmm. In games I've played in the past, I've managed to avoid being so tied, so those things hadn't occurred. Handy to consider now, for the game I'm writing too, thanks for highlighting them
Yeah, a *lot* more work!
Still, food for thought. And insomnia, dammit
Right, off to binge on some telly or something to get me tired enough to sleep.
Later!
In the games I've played - refereed mostly is more accurate - the GM has always had some sort of a "string" on the players. Even in sandbox games, there's always been some sort of a "string". It's necessary to keep the game collaborative.
Flying a Beowulf or Marava? You've got a mortgage. Don't have a mortgage? You've got salaries, overhaul fees, fuel, parts, whatever. What ever the details, you need an income stream.
Flying a Suleiman? Either you own it - see above - or you're on Detached Duty. If the latter, the Service can tap you on the shoulder at any time.
Flying a Type-R? Either you own it - see above again - or you on a subsidy contract with all those "strings" again.
Broadsword? What's the ticket? Type-Y? Where does the Grand Poobah want to go? Animal-class? Who's shooting what where?
Even in CT's Imperial Fringe, perhaps the most "free" published adventure, you've still got to submit those survey reports in specific systems to get your money.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Budget is defined in HG, p48 "Primitive and Advanced Spacecraft". Budget drives have one Disadvantage, I have used Energy Inefficient.
Expert software is in the Core book, pp104 - 106, "Computers and Software".
Alrighty, then...
Having had a dekko, yeah, I glossed over the Primitive & Advanced bits when doing the first design, thinking along the lines of it either covering things like "King Henry's Spaceship" or "Blink drives" (both ends of the spectrum, you'll note
). D'Oh, and other comments. Time, I suspect, to have a s l o w read through that darn e-book properly.Regards the Expert systems.
Code:
Expert 1 TL11 Cr1000 Expert software packages mimic skills. A Traveller using
2 TL12 Cr10000 Expert may make a skill check as if he had the skill at the
3 TL13 Cr100000 software’s Bandwidth -1. Only INT and EDU-based checks
can be attempted. If a Traveller already has the skill, then
Expert grants DM+1 to his check.GAGH. How did I not spot this before?!
*beating head on desk*
*beating head on desk*
*beating head on desk*
*beating head on desk*
*beating head on desk*
*repeat until intelligence dawns or consciousness lost*
Seriously, mucho thanks for those two heads ups
Mostly, we've had ships passed on through mustering out benefits, such as Scouts, etc; this is how I managed to avoid a lot of those 'strings', but I do take the point, thanks
I assume you mean mean published adventures. The only one of the three ships I used more than once for PCs was the scout/courier A custom 300 ton freighter (mainly cargo) , a custom 55 ton jump shuttle*, a custom 400 ton exploration cruiser were used more than all the other ships combined.
* designed shortly after I heard about jump torpedoes. It was the only jump-capable ship under 100 tons I ever designed. Really handy for PCs, though.
Since I don't run merchant campaigns, this is fine. The primary source of income will not be from passengers or freight.
This is acceptable for a ship where commerce is it's secondary or tertiary source of income. it may even be worth is for a standard merchant ship.
Is a launch worth it? Not if you're paying the mortgage, something which Redcap's design is specifically meant to do. He's not designing an adventuring ship, if he were the armed packet he first posted would be perfect. He's building a frontier trader so the requirements are different.[/QUOTE]
His building requirements changing during the thread, which makes it harder to figure out what he really wants. For his initial design, I still say a 10 or 20 ton small craft makes sense.
Last edited:
Yes, his requirements have changed during the course of the thread. That's why I later wrote:
As you note, that's been the entire reason behind the thread!
I need to remember to be more "up to date" in my responses.
As you note, that's been the entire reason behind the thread!
I need to remember to be more "up to date" in my responses.
heh
Maybe this'll help: :coffeegulp:
OK, I'll get me coat
Very few changes in the text, but the art doesn't rise to the level of "update"...
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