CT Only: A Comment on Hits

[Supplement Four]

HITS

CT refers to damage as "hits". This is the amount of damage applied to a target's physical stats. The idea I'm trying to share is that not all "hits" are the same, but our brains default to thinking that 6 total points of damage now is just as damaging to the target as 6 total points in a different situation. This is not true at all. Damage, in classic Traveller represents different results and is handled differently, depending on the circumstance.



WOUNDS

Damage that does not reduce any of the physical stats to zero is a Minor Wound. Damage that reduces one physical stat to zero is also a Minor Wound with the added problem of unconsciousness.

It takes two physical stats at zero to indicate a Serious Wound has been applied to the character. And, we all know what all three physicals at zero means: it means the game is up--that all she wrote, and its time for the fat lady to sing as its tits up for the character.

So consider...

A target with average attributes of 777777 is hit by an Autopistol slug doing total damage of 6. The First Blood rule kicks in, and all the hits land on STR, reducing the target to stats of 177777.

Next round, the same target is again hit by an AutoPistol attack, and damage again is 3, 2, 1 for a total of six points. No longer using the First Blood rule, the player takes damage of 5 (3,2) on his END and damage of 1 to his DEX. Now, the character has: 162777.

Third round, the same target is hit, again, by that AutoPistol, and damage is 1, 1, 4, for a total, again, of six points. The player takes a 1 on his END and a total of 5 (4, 1) on his DEX. Now, the character is at: 111777.

Fourth round, that damn enemy with the AutoPistol hits again, and damage is, again is six points: 2, 2, 2. Now, the target is dead.



EXAMINATION

Why is the last shot any different from the first three? All four shots were accomplished with an AutoPistol. All four shots scored 6 points of damage. Yet, one attack killed the character outright while the first attack gave him a Minor Wound, and the second and third attacks, together, while successful hits, did not increase the damage done to the character!

It can be eye opening to look at this exercise.



UNCONSCIOUS!

Consider this, as well. The average attribute in the game is 7. An average human, in all respects, is statted: 777777.

If you look at the Book 1 weapon table, you'll see that the majority of weapons do 3D damage, making average damage 10 hits.

This means that the average successful attack from a gun in this game will render an average target unconscious with a Minor Wound. That is, incapacitated with a Wound that is easily healed.

The character will wake up from that gunshot attack in 10 minutes. His wounded stats will grow to their halfway level. And, he will be completely healed, regardless of the number of wound hits remaining, to his full, healthy level, after just three days of rest.

Or! The character can heal much, much faster by seeking help from an ally with a minimum Medical-1 skill and a medkit. This character will be fully healed, after suffering the gunshot wound, in half and hour!

 

[Supplement Four]

FIRST BLOOD

Without the First Blood rule, the average human character would have little to fear from charging foes with guns. The average 10 points of damage from 3D damage can easily be absorbed by a character with stats 777777 if using the standard method of allowing the target to take damage to his stats to his best advantage.

You'll want to keep the rule, as written, in your game, with the random placement feature. Without the random placement, a character with an 11 or higher in any of the three physical stats won't fear charging a foe with a gun. The random feature is needed because it is very rare that a CT character ends up with all three physical stats at 11+ (and if you have one in your game, he might be a little unrealistic in gunfights, sometimes, depending on the player).

You'll also not want to monkey with the character creation system too much by allowing more chances to increase physical stats. If you, say, use a chargen system where the player can pick the skill or attribute improvement that he wants on a table instead of rolling for it, smart players will really buff up physical stats, and Combat will be a joke fought by super-humans.

You don't want to use the First Blood rule after its first use, either, as this makes combat very, very deadly. Two successful shots will mostly likely deliver a Serious Wound or a Killing shot. Players like to roll dice, hit, and roll damage. The system, as it is written, is delicately balanced to deliver fun, roll-the-dice combat that doesn't always kill.



LOW DAMAGE WEAPONS

Even with the First Blood Rule, there might be an issue with weapons that do 2D damage or less. This is going to average 7 points of damage, and for an average 777777 character, the character goes unconscious 58% of the time, using the First Blood Rule. We're talking about a Club, a Blade, a Dagger, a Foil, a Spear, or a Body Pistol here (plus bare hands and many animal weapons).

Some players may take that risk, knowing that the chance is decent that not even one physical will go to zero, and if it does, the character goes unconscious with his comrades to back him up and protect him until he wakes.

Of course, being unconscious leaves a character open to the Coup de Grace rule. If players are a little too "brave" and obviously playing mechanics instead of roleplaying characters, the Ref might consider using the Coup de Grace rule a time or two to enforce the idea that going unconscious is riskier than just the players were thinking.

 

[mike wightman]

Nope, sorry, I don't want to keep the first blood rule. I know people who have been shot and seriously injured and barely noticed the initial impact. Reading up on gun shot victims it appears to be fairly common for survivors of gunshots to not have dropped to unconsciousness on the first hit.
I prefer to use the first blood effect for a critical effect roll in combat - roll a 12 to hit and all the damage stacks on a single characteristic.

This happens at random, and can happen more than once in a combat encounter. Players tend to be wary in every round of gun combat

Another thing you can do with the damage die is describe the wound effect.

Damage to str - muscle, damage to dex - pain, head hit, coordination affected, damage to end - cardiovascular, blood etc.

I would also put forward that there are different ways of describing a serious wound status.
A serious wound due to two characteristics being reduced to zero by consecutive hits and cumulative damage is likely to represent blood loss and shock.
If two characteristics are reduced to zero due to a critical hit (either the first blood rule or my house rule - also possible if you have low stats and/or very high damage is rolled) then I would describe it as broken bones for str, a hit to a major organ and extensive bleeding for end, and a strike to the central nervous/sensory system and or major concussion for dex.

You can have a lot of fun interpreting the CT damage results

 

[Supplement Four]

Nope, sorry, I don't want to keep the first blood rule. I know people who have been shot and seriously injured and barely noticed the initial impact.

Kinda like when First Blood of 3D results in 3, 1, 2, a total of 6 points, randomly placed on STR which is 9, lowering it to STR 3....:coffeesip:

 

[sabredog]

What about having a shock stat figured from the average of the three main attributes? If you take a number of hits equal or greater than that stat in one hit the character has to make a save vs. incapacitate.

"Incapacitate" can mean a lot of different effects, but the important one is that the character is now out of combat until they get medical help. It could mean a broken bone, sudden severe blood loss, a big chunk of muscle is now smoking and/or gone, pain n' panic... Medical help can also mean a lot of different things but I've always used the rules in JTAS 11 for medical care. They have a lot of meat to them and give medical type careers a boost.

I use a "red bag" sheet for the medical player to check off the doses of meds, supplies per wound point, etc.. so they know what they have and don't.

 

[kilemall]

This may be of interest to you gentlemen. Covers disease or accident 'hits' as well as combat damage.


http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=36341&highlight=medical+drama


On First Blood, that's a tough one. I see and understand Mike's point, but I think FB serves a gameplay role that can't be ignored.


My version has hit location coupled with the Striker 'armor reduces but does not necessarily eliminate hit damage' (things like getting a bruise impact or a burn instead of a rifle gut shot or laser tissue cook off) rather then the all or nothing of CT combat.



So it's more like 'head shot is definitely life-threatening even from a pistol or dagger vs. the FGMP may just take off your leg' and the rifle shot bruised your chest but it's much less then a full penetration- several such shots will start traumatizing the target.



The natural 6 hit breaking something in the QND Medical Drama perhaps allows for a middle ground, in that the 6 disables a major function without necessarily putting the character into shock or kill them. I may revisit that and remove FB in lieu of that, a natural 6 can do the FB thing without necessarily knocking them out.

 

[infojunky]

I use a variant of the AHL rules as such each wound received requires a END roll with negative DM of number of woulds received.

 

[Bob Weaver]

I use the First Blood rule in my combats, and yes, it does take PCs out of the fight very quickly. To me, this emphasizes the importance of Cover and Armor. Without those two, esp. at closer ranges, characters drop very quickly.
A few times I have implemented Unconsciousness as a temporary incapacity; the PC may still be 'awake' but is reeling from the pain and can't act. During that time, the character is prone, cannot attack or defend, and cannot use skills. But they can still see, hear, and communicate.
The 10-minute mark is when the pain subsides, or the shock wears off and the PC can move normally again.

 

[sabredog]

I used to use Striker but now, for assorted reasons, prefer just plain old CT combat, so accordingly I use the First Blood rule. I've always noticed an interesting statistical phenomenon when I've used this system. Players with highly buffed characters tend to be killed off more often because of First Blood than ordinary PCs.

If a PC with average stats is hit he more often than not goes down from First Blood and then misses out on a few rounds of combat. If isn't killed outright he comes back later but the combat is usually over by then. 2-4 rounds is the average combat in my experience.

On the other hand a PC with double digit stats won't usually drop from FB unless it was a big gun. If he stays in the fight he'll now have only a few points in each stat and that means the next hit is more likely than not going to kill him. It happens all the time in the game and canny players who notice it stop buffing up their character's physical stats so much, instead jut up to maybe where they get a DX or ST bonus on their favorite weapon or something.

IF the personal combat happens as part of a boarding action after starship combat, then because of wounds from ship damage will also reduce those tougher characters to dangerous levels.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Sorry, didn't read the entire thread, just the first few posts.

It has been an issue ever since I did my first combat way back in 80. All the news footage and documentaries on things related to gun violence (crime doc or war doc) show targets dropping and dying from a couple of rounds, or one well placed round.

So, ever since then I've chalked it up to game mechanics of Marc Miller and whoever else chimed in on the initial combat rules draft wanting to give the players a chance to recover, or at the very least not lose their character. A kind of cinematic thing where a character gets hit, survives, but wakes up behind bars with his buds nursing his wounds or something; i.e. they survived, got hit and hurt, maybe captured or something similar, but aren't out of the "game" so to speak.

I can't tell you how many pirates knocked out PC crewmembers, but failed to kill them, only to take over the ship they were boarding. And vice versa, where the PCs drop several attacking NPCs only to discover that they aren't dead.

I remember starring at my friend Ray across the kitchen table with the old scout ship laid out there, counters, dice and character sheets, and just us not knowing what to say to one another about the rules.

So … I don't know what else to add. I hope this anecdote helps this thread and further the discussion. I often read here or hear at cons how deadly Traveller combat is. Well, it can be, but if you're plinking at your target with well aimed shots, then your bullets are effectively tranquilizer rounds.

Just my two bits.

 

[sabredog]

I think something important here that is often forgotten in Traveller combat by referees and players alike is morale. Traveller isn't D&D with experience points and all so combats never have to be to the death unless the situation warrants it.

I run combat with a heavy emphasis on morale of both the players and the NPC's. There are morale values and rules in CT and I'm sure in the others. More of the same are in Striker and AHL.

Generally, given I come at combat from a real life as well as wargaming perspective I use morale rolls at the beginning of every round, and any time someone gets hit and goes down wounded or dead. The reason for doing it at the beginning of the round is kind of a "will to combat" test modified by numbers of each side, weapons used, experience of participants, and the like. If your side makes it's roll then they can start blasting away, if not, then you go for cover and can't fire yet.

This is where PC's with skills like Leader, Tactics, and military combat ribbons come into play for obvious reasons. If you have these in your party you can get positive DM's as per the game rules for those skills. Combat ribbons mean you have experience under fire and get a plus to your roll.

If someone gets hit then that side has to make a roll for morale at that time - failure means people start trying to get out of there, panic, etc. Panic is fun if somebody panic fires their gun and is now out of ammo. Even pinking at BD or combat-equipped troops without doing a lot of damage can effect morale rolls if the ref uses some imagination.

Plus, combatants don't have to just stand there and take it. Experienced characters will always be looking for an advantage so NPC's should be doing that, too.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Yeah, but the players always say "of course we fight on". I remember the morale rules, and rolling for them only get a lot of protests from players. To me the morale roll is taking decision power away from the people at the gaming table. I didn't want to jump onto this thread, but this has been a sore point with a lot of my players throughout the years.

 

[sabredog]

Well, I suppose we have to let them be heroic once in a while.

One thing I've done with morale rolls is use them for initiative. The NPC's use them for the normal morale thing, but the PC's use them to gain initiative. Otherwise combat is simultaneous, and most players I've had don't like that much either, or just can't visualize it.

So I say to them, make your morale roll each round (for the group) and you get initiative. If the other side beats you, though, they get first fires. It may add a roll to the round but it helps add to the chaos and uncertainty of combat. Sometimes, if they see the NPC's got first fire the PC's bolt on their own or at least start wavering.

 

[aramis]

Yeah, but the players always say "of course we fight on". I remember the morale rules, and rolling for them only get a lot of protests from players. To me the morale roll is taking decision power away from the people at the gaming table. I didn't want to jump onto this thread, but this has been a sore point with a lot of my players throughout the years.

Sounds like bad players to me.

Unless... well, if you're inconsistent with it... then they have room to complain.

I think something important here that is often forgotten in Traveller combat by referees and players alike is morale. Traveller isn't D&D with experience points and all so combats never have to be to the death unless the situation warrants it.

No edition of D&D that I've checked requires killing the NPC's and/or Monsters to earn XP.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Well they always wanted to be heroic, but weren't willing to put in the derring do to pay for it. I also got the same protests about the dedication roll for the "improve your character" rule towards the back of TTB.

I let the morale rule slide because if they were really in a bad spot, and if they were smart enough, then they'd know when to bolt or throw down their weapons. I used it more for NPCs they were fighting...it added to the PCs' "we're hero types" ego. If I ever Ref again I'll enforce it.

 

[Brandon C]

Yeah, but the players always say "of course we fight on". I remember the morale rules, and rolling for them only get a lot of protests from players. To me the morale roll is taking decision power away from the people at the gaming table. I didn't want to jump onto this thread, but this has been a sore point with a lot of my players throughout the years.

I never rolled for morale for PCs, only NPCs.

 

[Adam Dray]

I'd never tell players that they can't fight on. However, if it's up front and clear before play, there's nothing wrong with a morale system that doesn't tell them what to do, but penalizes them for doing it.

MORALE

Whenever one of your own is taken out of combat, or whenever you take your first damage of combat, make a morale check. If you fail, you suffer a -1 DM to all checks until you're out of combat. Additional morale failures add a cumulative -1 DM.

There's not really a Willpower stat in Traveller, so I'm not sure what I'd test. Endurance, I suppose. Add the Combat skill you're using. Tactics or Leadership could apply Effect as a DM to individuals or the entire group, or create a pool of +1's to give out as needed during combat.

Allow a full action (doing nothing else) to make a new morale check. Success totally resets the morale penalty to 0.

 

[sabredog]

No edition of D&D that I've checked requires killing the NPC's and/or Monsters to earn XP.

No, but you have to admit that it's the primary reward for doing so, and since experience leads to levels, and levels are the way to advance in the average game....

Besides, EP's were originally "victory points" from Chainmail and convention tourneys originally run by Gygax and Arneson back in the early days even before D&D was published. It was acknowledged to be the reasoning behind the EP system.

Not that their is anything wrong with it, either, it's a time-honored system for rewarding risk and n' all. Personally, I never gave EP's for knocking off an "NPC" that wasn't just a monster mook. That victory came with more specific and it's own rewards.

But you have to admit that the average player won't run away unless given a hint so broad you can land a plane on it so some sort of cluebat is usually required.

 

[sabredog]

I'd never tell players that they can't fight on. However, if it's up front and clear before play, there's nothing wrong with a morale system that doesn't tell them what to do, but penalizes them for doing it.

MORALE

Whenever one of your own is taken out of combat, or whenever you take your first damage of combat, make a morale check. If you fail, you suffer a -1 DM to all checks until you're out of combat. Additional morale failures add a cumulative -1 DM.

There's not really a Willpower stat in Traveller, so I'm not sure what I'd test. Endurance, I suppose. Add the Combat skill you're using. Tactics or Leadership could apply Effect as a DM to individuals or the entire group, or create a pool of +1's to give out as needed during combat.

Allow a full action (doing nothing else) to make a new morale check. Success totally resets the morale penalty to 0.

LBB1 page 36 has the morale rules.

They are unusual to Traveller since I haven't found a lot of RPG's that apply morale rolls to PC's, but they are kinda in keeping with the wargamey aspects of Traveller.

They definitely require some ref-ing to make work but creative storytelling can do it.

 

[Adam Dray]

LBB1 page 36 has the morale rules.

Ha! I haven't seen them in a long time. How do mine compare?