A question about basic training...

[Shadow Bear]

Originally posted by Scarecrow:
Ladies and Gentlemen of the armed forces. A moment of your time if you would be so kind.

I was wondering what Basic Training is essentially. How long does it last? What is it for? What does it teach you? What skills? Do all personnel go through it or just enlisted people? If Officers do it aswell, does their Basic Training differ from Enlisted Basic Training? If so, how? Does Basic Training differ to any great degree between services? If so, how?

Regards

Scarecrow

I went through two basic training camps, one for the USCG and one for the USAF. At the time they were both 16 weeks long. They both featured physical training, disipline, testing markmaship and military courtesy and law.

The USAF trained us with the M-16 only while the USCG trained us to use the M-16 and the .45 semi-automatic pistol. Usaf gave us very basic fire fighting (what type of extinguisher to use on what type of fire) the USCG trained more extensively including actually using the equipment to fire an oil fire in a inside a steel structure (simulating a fire inside the vessel's engine room). Knot tieing and line handling were also given in the USCG. The USCG required swimming and jumping from a high diving platform to simulate jumping off the side of a vessel. USAF stressed testing and classification for advanced training and job placement.

Both services as mentioned above gave you too little time and too much to do, taught team work, how to wear and care for the uniform, how to recognise ranks and other services, the Uniform Code of Militray Justice, 10 basic orders, drilling, and a complete rebuilding of your self image.

Being enlisted I cannot speak to what the officers were taught. Keep in mind most officers go through an academy (West Point, Anapolis or the Air Force Academy) but during war time there was something called a 90 day wonder program that produced officers quite quickly.

The next step after basic would be a class A school, 16 weeks of intensive training in your specialty. 4 months of basic and 4 months of advanced training, a few weeks leave in between and tranist times between bases, waiting for a new class to start and you could easily wrap up a year before arriving at your first duty assignment.

 

[Kensai]

The armed forces you've all been mentioning are all professional forces belonging to first-world nations; here's a bit from someone who's been a conscript in a developing/near-developed nation.

First of all, let me note that conscript forces are not necessarily inferior to professionals - witness the armed forces of Israel, and of course both the US and UK used conscript forces in WWII to good effect.

In Singapore, all medically fit males are enlisted into the armed forces for National Service at age 17, with educational deferment common. Most enter when they're 18-19. They serve for 24 months, with an additional 6 months tacked on if corporal rank or higher is achieved during service. They are then liable to 13 years' reserve training with their unit, and then discharge to a reserve division until age 40 (55 for ossifers).

Even before enlistment, while youngsters are still in school they take a fitness test every year. Those who fail this test - which involves situps, shuttle run, chin-ups, broad jump and a 2.4 km (1.5 mile) run - undergo a two-month Pre-Enlistment Program which is dedicated to physical fitness. Then they join the rest of their cohort (who therefore do two months' less NS) for a 12-week Basic Military Training program.

BMT focuses on physical conditioning (including route marches of up to 24 km [15 miles], obstacle course runs and yes, swimming), basic fieldcraft, weapons training - which incorporates a Trainfire tactical marksmanship program - drill and discipline, teamwork, first aid, and ethics and responsibility. Yes, we *are* taught the rules of the Geneva convention!

After BMT infantry go on to Advanced Continuation Training (8 weeks), then a trade school/specialization (8 weeks); officer cadets go to OCS for 32 weeks.

I personally was an infantry-battalion signaller and BMT was a good foundational experience; although it's true that most of the knowledge and skills of infantry warfare were gained later, they were built upon that strong foundation, sort of the way you need to be able to read and add before you can do advanced calculus....

 

[PapaGolfWhiskey]

As an historian cousin of mine has it The singapore/Swiss/Israeli model isn't that much different from the model Sam Hughs had for Canada.
Every able bodied person concripted young and then kept in training via militia service until needed.

We didn't follow it but...

The Solomani Confederation Does have a 'homeguard'

 

[Kensai]

Originally posted by Garf:
As an historian cousin of mine has it The singapore/Swiss/Israeli model isn't that much different from the model Sam Hughs had for Canada.
Every able bodied person concripted young and then kept in training via militia service until needed.

We didn't follow it but...

The Solomani Confederation Does have a 'homeguard'

Indeed - note that the nations that actually follow this practice are small in both land area and population as compared to their neighbours, hence the need for a high MPR (Military Participation Ratio).

Switzerland requires it because it's surrounded by large and traditionally belligerent neighbours and it wants to hang on to its neutrality; Israel is in a more or less constant state of war for its survival.

Singapore's strategic situation is similar to Israel's with less unfriendly neighbours; we have fought the Indonesians (the Confrontation) in a low-level conflict involving mainly attempts at terrorist attacks by Indonesian commando units. Fortunately President Sukarno died....

Another correspondence is a high emphasis on individual manpower quality and the use of high-tech force multipliers, which is essential to a citizen army if you want to have a society left after the war. Simply put, we can't afford to take many losses - the nation would collapse.

Historically this system was inaugurated by the Prussians in their army reforms after Jena-Auerstadt. Napoleon didn't allow them a large standing army so they had to train large numbers of men while not keeping them under arms for long enlistments. The fruits of this project were seen in the Waterloo campaign, which was ultimately won by the combination of British professionals and Prussian conscripts. The militarization of Prussia also led to the 1861 and 1870 wars, and thence to the Naval Race of the late 19th century, and was a major contributing factor to the outbreak of the Great War, and thence WWII.

Which just goes to prove that many times the 'only way out' isn't a very good way at all in the end....

 

[PapaGolfWhiskey]

Hmmm that's very interesting. Although I can see your chain of reasoning I don't buy the implied (and I'm certain tongue in cheek) conclusion that Mass Consription = World War.

but you never know... Aparantly under Bush American high schools must forward all their new student registrations. Bush want's accurate records of all the persons soon to be of prime conscription age? hmmm...

Anyhow. OT - meanderings on my part.

Something not mentioned earlier in this thread is Basic training's use as a screening process.

It is right there during basic that the combative elites, and Leader type are selected and seperated from the lifers at lower rank.


Garfield "private-for-life" White.

 

[bryan gibson]

Originally posted by Scarecrow:
Ladies and Gentlemen of the armed forces. A moment of your time if you would be so kind.

I was wondering what Basic Training is essentially. How long does it last? What is it for? What does it teach you? What skills? Do all personnel go through it or just enlisted people? If Officers do it aswell, does their Basic Training differ from Enlisted Basic Training? If so, how? Does Basic Training differ to any great degree between services? If so, how?

Regards

Scarecrow
---------------------------------------------
All of the above entries have good points...as a vet of two services and having had the opportunity to work with several countires while I was in, including the Specwar community, it can all be summed up into a few basic points:

Basic training does all as stated above; simply put, its most important point ( and universal quality) is teaching teamwork.

Disregarding the service specific skills ( air forces seldom focus on firearms, where as armies usually do, for example) BMT also allows a weeding out of those who will not or are incapable of adapting to the military method.

often overlooked is that BMT is where recruits recieve their first seriuos medical screenings, and uniform medical care, bringing all recruits to a basic medical health standard.

also overlooked, Basic is where the recruits are also exposed to a basic standard of conduct, as basic is designed to instill a sence of discipline of work ethic. Some services, such as the army, instill discipline form external sources ( its better to do your job as the consequences of failure are bad, be it enemy action, you DI, whatever) whereas others (especially the elite services, or the more technical; ones, like the air force or navy)prefer to instill internal discipline, such as doing the job for its own sake and pride in accomplishment. Either way, this is often where the recruits will finfd themselves - for the first time for the most part- held to a standard, usually higher than they might set themselves.

 

[Kensai]

Originally posted by Garf:
Hmmm that's very interesting. Although I can see your chain of reasoning I don't buy the implied (and I'm certain tongue in cheek) conclusion that Mass Consription = World War.

Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt. Tongue was certainly somewhat in cheek. Tracing the causes of the Great War is one of those tasks that will generate employment for academics - and dusty academic papers - for a long time to come.

However it does have to be noted that increased militarism does come at a price - which is commonly in the form of increased tension with one's neighbours. We still haven't learned the lessons of arms races, and a little judicious application of game theory demonstrates quite clearly that there is a fundamental logic to the arms race that tends to disaster.

And as for those who claim that the Cold War arms race wasn't a disaster - it certainly was for the Soviet Union, and for the economies of most of the developing world - and arguably for the American as well.

In any case, I'd like to concur that it is during BMT that recruits are selected for leadership positions - and also for technical positions. You don't want someone with a subpar IQ servicing your heavy weapons, do you?

It's especially important for conscript forces because you get most of the male population coming in, and there's a real need to identify the right man for the right job. Of course, it still leads to strange situations, like when you end up with a company OC who works for his 84 gunner in civilian life... no joke, it happens!

How is this relevant to a Traveller campaign? Well, imagine the roleplaying possibilities - especially if you overlay it with a hereditary nobility... IMTU I have a military that resembles that of Great War Britain, with mostly noble officers, a few "temporary gentlemen" raised from the ranks, and a mass of commoner rankers... who unfortunately have recently begun to develop greater social consciousness - Socialist movements abounding. Easter uprising anyone? Much fun to be had by all!

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by Kensai:
And as for those who claim that the Cold War arms race wasn't a disaster - it certainly was for the Soviet Union, and for the economies of most of the developing world - and arguably for the American as well.

Argh. I sort of agree, but then again not. In one sense, the Cold War served to prevent the not-so-Cold-and-perhaps-far-too-Hot-as-in-Radioactive War and as a consequence, perhaps it wasn't a failure, but a triumph, though Pyrrhic.

In any case, I'd like to concur that it is during BMT that recruits are selected for leadership positions - and also for technical positions. You don't want someone with a subpar IQ servicing your heavy weapons, do you?

BMT doesn't get 'em all though. We had guys in our infantry unit during MILES training claiming multiple kills during a day of training. Turns out about half were friendly. That didn't really seem to bother them. I noted those involved and decided I'd make a point to be behind them at all times.

It's especially important for conscript forces because you get most of the male population coming in, and there's a real need to identify the right man for the right job. Of course, it still leads to strange situations, like when you end up with a company OC who works for his 84 gunner in civilian life... no joke, it happens!

Regularly!

The other thing is (as you've pointed out) some Conscript forces can be quite good. Sam Hughs (another poster alluded to his plans) thought they were the only answer. And yet professional forces seem to have some good points. And conscripts have had a bad time in places (ie Vietnam). I'm not sure what distinguishes (except after the fact) good Conscript programs from bad....

How is this relevant to a Traveller campaign? Well, imagine the roleplaying possibilities - especially if you overlay it with a hereditary nobility... IMTU I have a military that resembles that of Great War Britain, with mostly noble officers, a few "temporary gentlemen" raised from the ranks, and a mass of commoner rankers... who unfortunately have recently begun to develop greater social consciousness - Socialist movements abounding. Easter uprising anyone? Much fun to be had by all!

Or was that "Ine Givar", you say?

 

[Dynamo]

Shortly out of boot camp I was assigned to a Cutter untill I made enough rank to go to A School. This can be anytime between six months and 2 years. But I also had scads of other training on the job. Plus all cuttermen were required to go to advanced shipboard firefighting school and Buttercup (Both run by the Navy).

Firefighting school is great, 2 days of classes and a fire course with live flames. You wear all you shipboard fire gear (OBA's, Firesuits, the works) Learn how to handle a hose as a firefighting team and put out multiple fires. You also get to see the effect of a wild hose and learn techniques to stop it.

Buttercup is a damage control school that was so much fun that I'd love to do it again and again.

The goal is to keep the a mock up of a ship the USS Buttercup afloat,in the dark, while water pours in and the ship begins to list. You really get caught up in the moment and its just the most fun you could have.

I also got qualified tying down Helicopters, working hydralic cranes, Being helmsman (and master helmsman) of a 270 foot cutter, working rigging, and maintaining avionics survival equipment. We learn our boat backwards and forwards from watertight bulkhead to watertight bulkhead.

good times.

 

[Kensai]

MILES... arrghh... I hate MILES. Piece of crap equipment that wouldn't work half the time, and is bulky, heavy and awkward. Used to curse heck out of it, especially when it would spontaneously activate and stick you with that horrible high-pitched whine after 48 hours without sleep. And the lasers are blocked by foliage, which really screws things up in a tropical rainforest... can you tell I hate MILES?

Besides which, it can't simulate improvised weaponry such as field-expedient landflame mines... that requires an official with a godgun and a sense of humour.

As for whether a conscript force will be effective in real combat - there's no way of telling whether a professional force will stand up either. By most accounts there's very little to choose from between draftees and regular forces when it comes to intestinal fortitude. Regulars, of course, get the edge in skills.

Personally I did an eight-week signaller course after washing out of NCO training with a badly sprained ankle. The School of Signals was a dream compared to the rest of my time. Lots of electronics to fool around with, female instructors (some of whom actually LOOKED female) and lots of free time, with nights off on offer every time you aced a test.

Of course, after it all ended I went to an operational unit that's equivalent to a line battalion in the 101st Air Assault Division, and boy did I make up for it. But the pride, discipline, esprit de corps and self-respect one learns are priceless. Go Scorpions!

 

[mark_rotteveel]

Ladies and Gentlemen of the armed forces. A moment of your time if you would be so kind.

I was wondering what Basic Training is essentially. How long does it last? What is it for? What does it teach you? What skills? Do all personnel go through it or just enlisted people? If Officers do it aswell, does their Basic Training differ from Enlisted Basic Training? If so, how? Does Basic Training differ to any great degree between services? If so, how?

The Basic training(or Recruit School) in the Royal Australian Navy went for 12 weeks. It covered ship identification, and location markings on ships. Ships Husbandry. Fire Fighting. Damage Control. NBCD. Rank/rating markings. Naval traditions. Drill (of course). A day at the rifle range. First Aid. uniform/kit maintenance. Survival At Sea. Swimming.

There was a lot of the drill/PT - every day

At the end of the recruit school everyone went off to do their categry training... I can't think of anything else we did (it was back in 1986)