Al Morai and Implications

[Whipsnade]

Daryen,

When I referred to DGP's 'poor' work I was specifically referring to the UWPs and nothing else.

As for those UWPs being canon... shrug ...they're canon in the hands of an IP owner who is not Marc W. Miller.

They and the rest of DGP's 'forbidden' canon are slowly being overwritten and, if MWM so desired, they could disappear from Traveller's canon in an instant.

Regina's TL was retconned, the location of Capital/Sylea was retconned, and improperly generated UWPs can be retconned too.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[daryen]

Maybe they can be changed, maybe they can't.

But they are in no way "forbidden" canon. They have been published under GDW copyright twice, so they are IP owned by GDW, and therefore Marc W. Miller.

BTW, what is wrong with the DGP UWPs in Deneb sector. Granted, I may be missing the forest for the trees, but still. They have many hi-pop, hi-tech worlds, including multiple TL F hi-pop worlds and a TL G hi-pop world.

So, aside from Askigaak, why is Deneb considered so bad? (Or any worse than the Spinward Marches?)

 

[Whipsnade]

Daryen,

It isn't just Behind the Claw. DGP produiced UWPs from several sectors as part of their splendid Four Knights campaign, Flaming Eye book, Knightfall book, and others.

Those UWPs were not generated correctly IAW with LBB:6. It doesn't matter that the results 'aren't that bad'; and Deneb's aren't really aside from Askigaak. What matters is they weren't done correctly. Hi-pop, lo-pop, belt, garden, or hellhole, none were generated following the LBB:6 sysgen correctly.

DGP alos had a tendency to boost TLs, hence all the TL Gs in Knightfall. Again, while this doesn't occur (much) 'Behind the Claw, it is still wrong and still calls DGP's UWPs into serious question. Apart from generating them incorrectly, how many were also 'tweaked'?


Have fun,
Bill

 

[robject]

Originally posted by Ptah:

There certainly will be the rare exceptions for worlds that have some rare natural resource, or unique service (world's with exceptional artists, exceptional interpreters, etc.) that are relatively indepedent of tech level. High Pop but middling tech worlds might be important for labor and very imprtant if near a high tech but low pop world.

...and capitals that are only Pop 8.

Daryen:

I also initially keep track of pop 8 worlds. If it has a big enough pop multiplier, I count it as a pop 9.

and

Wild Bill:

Throw in the multipliers and you'll get 'virtual' hi-pop worlds that will skew your data.

Hmmm. I think I'm going to have to consider population multiplier. It does seem likely that a Pop 8, PM 9 world could be considered Industrial.

Daryen,

I'm sort of aiming at economic and political power at the same time. Might make it hard to hit either target if I'm not concentrating on one, but I hope that's not the case.

 

[robject]

Veering slightly back on track, here's what I figure about Al Morai.

Its routes are generally along the core of the Marches, and are on the xboat route, so I presume it's relatively safe, and safer than the routes along the coreward edge of the Marches. Presuming there is also competition, then the competitor will also have a patrol squadron wandering the lanes, further increasing security. Not to mention Imperial patrols.

Even so, their Type MK transports must have at least one triple turret. I'll give them two. Anyway, here's the CT design as close as I can tell:

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Al Morai Type MK Transport
Hull 3000 tons MCr300
Jump drive Z (J4) 125 240
Power plant Z 73 192
Maneuver drive Q (1G) 29 60
Fuel 1240
Cargo 1200
Passenger SR(30) 120 15
Shuttle nests(3) 120
Crew SRs(15) 60 7.5
10 hardpoints 10 1
Triple turret/LMS x 2 6
Model/4 computer 4 30
Bridge 20 ?
------------------------------------------
3001t MCr 851.5</pre>[/QUOTE]Pretty much in line with the Tukera Lines 3000t transport.

I noticed that the Tukera transport from The Traveller Adventure doesn't adhere to the Book 2 rule "minimum 10 crewmembers per 1000 dtons".

 

[robject]

Veering back to UWPs which hover close to having certain trade codes, Marc says this:

By Marc Miller:

2. -I intend a Pi (Pre-industrial) classification.

PI if atm=0,1,2,4,7,9,A+ and Pop=7,8
Any Pre-Ind rates a Marquis (who, if his line manages to get this world to Ind, rates becoming a Duke).

also, Pre-Hi is Pop =8. Rates a Viscount.

Pre-Ag is (not Non-Ag, Not Ag) Atm= 4-5-6-7-8-9 and Hyd= 4-5-6-7-8. Rates a Baronet.

Pre-Rich is (not Rich, Not Poor) Atm= 6 or 8 and Pop<9. Rates a Baronet.

 

[far-trader]

Ah, that's where you levered the space from, the bridge. I was wondering

It should be 60tons not just 20tons. For what it's worth my closest design, also Book 2, is:

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Al Morai Type MK Transport
Hull 3000 tons MCr300
Jump drive Z (J4) 125 240
Power plant Z 73 192
Maneuver drive Q (1G) 29 60
Fuel 1240
Cargo 1200
Passenger SR(30) 120 15
Shuttle nests(3) 120
Crew SRs(10) 40 5
Bridge 60 15
Model/4 computer 4 30
------------------------------------------
3011t MCr857

MCr771.3 discounted</pre>[/QUOTE]As you can see mine is 11tons over and there are no hardpoints though as noted above I'd have the shuttles armed. Overall not acceptable in my books. And it's only that close with a minimal crew and double occupancy for all but the Captain*. The Aides are expected to also pilot the shuttles with the Stewards aboard as second seat/gunner. (Crew: Captain, Executive Officer, Aides x3, Pilot, Navigator, Engineers x7, Stewards x4, and Medic.)

* fine for military ships but not commercial, least not usually IMTU and as I understand it the CT OTU.

Originally posted by robject:

I noticed that the Tukera transport from The Traveller Adventure doesn't adhere to the Book 2 rule "minimum 10 crewmembers per 1000 dtons".

As for that, ever since HG I've taken the Book 2 line (to quote the whole for context) "Extremely large starships should have at least 10 crew members for each 1000 tons..." to mean those over the Book 2 5000ton limit. Below that you just need the 5 Officers and the other crew.

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
Those UWPs were not generated correctly IAW with LBB:6. It doesn't matter that the results 'aren't that bad'; and Deneb's aren't really aside from Askigaak. What matters is they weren't done correctly.

OK, so it's not that they are 'broken', per se, but that were done wrong. I accept that complaint. Doesn't change the 'canon' issue, but I do see your issue more clearly.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by robject:
Presuming there is also competition, then the competitor will also have a patrol squadron wandering the lanes...

Actually given the cutthroat nature of commerce in the Imperium THOSE are exactly the places I'd want my own patrols to keep the competition friendly and honest

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by robject:
Veering back to UWPs which hover close to having certain trade codes, Marc says this:

I am very glad he didn't include them. They are easy enough to figure out, and would just clutter the notes section needlessly.

And again, I don't really buy a real significance to 'In'. In my opinion, 'In' should be tied to a minimum TL, not to atmosphere. I just don't see how Mire, for example, is any less 'industrial' than Narsil.

I also don't see how a world being 'industrial' even matters if the world is too lazy to build a real starport. (For example, Zamine or the aforementioned Askigaak.)

 

[Anthony]

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:

It's a reasonable assumption of you do not include population code mulitpliers. Throw in the multipliers and you'll get 'virtual' hi-pop worlds that will skew your data.

Actually, as long as the same randomizer is used for pop multipliers for all pop codes, pop multipliers don't really change the 'only Hi-pop worlds count' effect -- what it means is that a few of the Hi-pop worlds (those with pop-9 and PR 1) become irrelevant.

 

[robject]

Dan -

Thanks for catching the bridge error. Your design looks better.

If the designs from TTA are any indicator, the Xboat routes are safe. It's the feeders where you start seriously arming your ships... especially if you're a smaller line indirect competition with a megacorporation.

I like the idea of arming those funny-sized shuttles.

 

[far-trader]

No problem robject, I wish your's was correct, 1ton off would be acceptable even to me, especially with the extra crew and hardpoints

I tried all kinds of tricks to find a way to trim mine and nothing felt right. In the end I decided to just change the overall tonnage for MTU so I could update it to a HG design. Not canonical but for those who might be interested here it is:


</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Al Morai Type MK Transport - TL13
Hull - Dispersed 4000 tons 200
Jump drive 4P 200 800
Power plant 4 (160E) 320 960
Maneuver drive 1G 80 120
Fuel 1760
Cargo 1200
Passenger SR(30) 120 15
Shuttle nests(3x40t) 156 0.312
Crew SRs(10) 40 5
Bridge 60 20
Model/4 computer 4 30
Hardpoints x40 40 4
------------------------------------------
4000t MCr2,154.312

MCr1,723.4496 discounted</pre>[/QUOTE]This design has full hardpoints though weaponry if installed usually consists of automated laser defenses and sandcasters. The minimal crew are double occupancy for all but the Captain*. The Aides are expected to also pilot the shuttles with the Stewards aboard as second seat/gunner. The maximum High Passage rating is 24 leaving 6 passenger staterooms for Middle Passage. (Crew: Captain, Executive Officer, Computer Officer, Electronics Officer, Aides x3, Pilot, Navigator, Engineers x6, Stewards x3, and Medic.)

USP-MK-D741442-000000-00000-0 - TL13

Yes, TL13

I know the canon one (and Book 2 design) are TL15 but it only needs TL13 (in HG) and that's all the second service port (Lunion not Shirene IMTU) can handle. Why did I change the second service port from Shirene (the wholly owned Al Morai world) to Lunion? Three reasons, TL and population to begin with, and the starport for the third. Allowing most of the ships to be made there. It just made more sense to me that way.

 

[robject]

Hey, isn't a volume fudge of up to 10% considered legal?

Especially if your name is Marc Miller...

I actually realized (very, very, very early this morning) that if you're Marc Miller, you can "make" a design fit, and fudges really ought to be tolerated unless they're just flat out plain wrong. In other words, certain Traveller Ancients get special consideration...

 

[far-trader]

I'm guessing you mean the 20% more or less fudge allowed for deckplans. That's allowed, but designs are supposed to add up. The other way would be like allowing a player to create their character and then saying "Oh, btw you can now fudge the rolls for your stats up or down by 1 or 2 points." As if anyone would ever use the less or down option

As for Marc being allowed, well heck, we all are for OUR TU games, but published material should always add up in accordance with the design rules or there are going to be problems.

 

[robject]

So Hans has some good points.

After reading Merchant Prince, it looks as though Al Morai is simply a subsector line (that makes sense) which has expanded into sector-wide transport and shipping.

LBB7 says they still maintain routes in Mora, so they've got more than 50 ships, that's for sure. Their 50 cargoliners mentioned in the Spinward Marches Campaign therefore must represent their sector operations.

...which makes me wonder: what are the obstacles to breaking into long-haul shipping? If my model of the Imperium is right, there's not enough money in it by itself -- the government and military contracts are where the money is.

On the other hand, if there is lots of money to be made, then Oberlindes would already be there.

 

[Plankowner]

Robject, I think you just named the obstacles:

Government and Military Contracts. To get those, you have to through those pesky nobles who OWN part of Oberlindes... But, if you can bribe the new Marquis or Count and boom, you get your foot in the door.

Politics gotta love em

 

[robject]

Hey Plank, I think I'll call them opportunities rather than obstacles. After all, it's the opportunity of a mail contract that can spell the difference between bankruptcy and -- well, survival.

If Al Morai actually did get a jump on shipping early on in the sector's history, then perhaps their sector business grew as their subsector business did. In other words, the controlling nobility saw an opportunity and seized it.

 

[Plankowner]

Opportunities, yeah that's the politically correct term for this issue!

Rob, you are probably quite right about the growth. Al Morai started at Mora with the settlement of that region and grew with the Imperial expansion into the rest of the Marches. I would also guess that Al Morai would have a pretty big presence in the Trojan Reach Sector as well, at least the Imperial parts of it.

Expansion into other Sectors would be much harder and probably fought fiercely by the established lines in those sectors.

 

[robject]

Quite. And expansion into other subsectors would be difficult, since they've got small carriers eking out cash wherever it can be had.

Makes me wonder if Oberlindes doesn't have as many ships as I thought.